DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
tenebre, PM sent.

I wouldn't recommend their paint service to anyone, but their assembly/conversion services seem solid.

If that was ever good it isn't anymore. I had them assemble 1 miniature, the hero I mentioned earlier. He had 2 weapon options, and I specified which one I wanted. That's right, they didn't listen AND got it wrong. I feel like even if you don't listen there's still that chance that you'll use the right one by accident, but I guess I got unlucky twice in a row. It makes me wonder if they wanted the same weapon to use as a bit, which they did keep as a bit, by the way. They keep all the bits unless you specify otherwise. Just kidding, that's just what they tell you. I specified otherwise and they still didn't send them.

Ugh, that is awful. Too bad that even the conversion/modeling portion of their service has suffered. Sorry that you had that experience with them. Did you get any resolution out of them for the improper assembly?

 Quarterdime wrote:

No, I told you that my confidence in BTP has been shot. Contacting them is a hassle because they rarely reply via email. The first email has about a one in four chance of getting a response, which is why you need to message them every 2 days or call them, at which point they'll tell you that they're sorry. I know this because I already went through this went them over a 6 month period prior to the order. I figured I'd put my faith in them with a $900 army order but unfortunately they forgot to even start it because I asked them to order the models themselves (as they have advertised they can do) and they never did. And considering I paid the first $450 of that order in model trade-ins and told them I'd pay them in money for the other half, I never paid them in money. But they still made out with those models like thieves. The only silver lining to any of it is they put me through to Shawn and agreed to let me pay for 7 models I sent them entirely in store credit, which they normally don't do. By the time they said "just send us the address and we'll send them out" I felt like they were tired of dealing with me and were on the verge of doing something drastic like keeping the models. I really do not want to even talk to them any more. I consider my losses irretrievable at this point.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It appears that Blue Table has far too much on it's plate to handle, that Shawn says yes to everything and makes promises initially that he is ultimately unable to meet.

I know way back when I first started watching their videos that they put out some very cool armies with really nice individual conversions. Shawn always seemed a genuine guy in the videos. It looks very much to me that they have increased their intake without matching the level of staff and due diligence, hence the lack of communication, the huge delays and worst of all, the totally gakky painting.

I would hope this incident serves as a wake up call, but as the OP has said, Shawn is angry about this being made public instead of kept under wraps and containable. He shouldn't be angry, he should be grateful someone's very publicly identified serious issues with his business so he can work to put them straight.

Because this isn't the first time we've seen this sort of fall out from Blue Table lately, it's certainly the loudest so far, but there's been complaint after complaint surfacing about the company, along very similar lines, for some time.

Shawn, if multiple complaints are arising about the same issues, simple Root Cause Analysis and Process Improvement can put that right and strengthen your business.

It's a free troubleshooting session, if you choose to treat it as such. Look for the causes of complaint and work out how to change them and improve. You're being given a chance to improve now or ignore and suffer consequence, this hobby is internationally linked now via sites like these, word of mouth and reputation are all. Use this free feedback or ignore it at your peril.

tenebre wrote:

Exactly... not to mention when i client comes to you with a high $ project that they say will be used for public display.... Assign a dedicated PM for that project. But certainly do not be surprised when that product is on public display.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Ummm.... those are what Blue Table thinks are showcase quality?

Those... umm... yeah....

Not the worst that I have seen, but definitely among the worst for that price.

By any chance, do you have a copy of the original order as you made it to them - their excuse seems to be that they decided what you wanted, rather than painting what you said that you wanted.

I don't know about you, but when I say that 'I want blood and gore' I generally do not mean 'I want lava glow'.... Hell... if they used the technique that I think that they used... I would do it myself rather than pay $5 a figure, let along $17.

I really get ticked off when somebody tries to tell me what I wanted rather than asking me....

The Auld Grump

 curran12 wrote:
Aside from the comment on your video, have you heard anything else from BTP?

tenebre wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Aside from the comment on your video, have you heard anything else from BTP?

He sent me an email last night and this morning stating he was still "preparing" a response ..... because i had "chosen to take this to the court of public opinion"

thats it.

I still dont get that... who would pay that much for an army and NEVER show anyone?

tenebre wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Aside from the comment on your video, have you heard anything else from BTP?

He sent me an email last night and this morning stating he was still "preparing" a response ..... because i had "chosen to take this to the court of public opinion"

thats it.

I still dont get that... who would pay that much for an army and NEVER show anyone?

Absolutely pertinent to the whole "validity of BTP Kickstarter project" debate:

(taken from TGN thread)

"BTPemployee wrote:
October 29, 2012 at 2:42 pm

I’m a BTP employee and will remain nameless for obvious reasons. Most of the critical observations in this thread are indeed accurate.

The Kickstarter is indeed a money grab, and a desperate one at that. BTP is a slowly failing business that is going further into debt by the day. Much of the debt is in the form of credit owed to its customers. Many weeks they don’t even have the money to order the models and supplies needed for current orders, even though 50% down payments were made. Those down payments are often spent on previous orders and payroll. I hope for the sake of the Kickstarter supporters that it fails because much of the money will be spent before Kickstarter obligations are met.

I can verify most of what Trojan has said of his experience at BTP. I’m sorry you wasted your time and money, I wish I could warn others before they do the same. But you did get a glimpse of the real BTP. I don’t know why you wern’t hired, but you should be gratefull that you weren’t. I really feel sorry for the guys that relocate out here and get stuck. The ones that rent from BTP are really in a tight spot.

I actually feel a bit sorry for Shawn as well. I don’t know that he is outright dishonest. He has grand dreams of Shawnland, and lives there to much to actually manage a successful business."

I was paid $8.00 an hour. I was there 8 AM to 7-8 PM Mon-Thu and 8-noon Fri but claimed only 40 hours because overtime was not authorized. I was told at 1130 AM on Friday by Josh that I was not authorized overtime and that “they” wanted to talk to me later. I took the hint and packed my stuff and left. I drove straight through back to Texas 22 hours, calling my wife on the way to tell her I was heading home and that she had been right (ugh).

My cost for the entire trip to/from plus lodging was over $1,000.

I was initially interviewed by Shawn via Skype. Art Director Josh sat in. Shawn asked the questions and after each question, he would mute the mic and lean over to Josh and interpret to him the meaning of my response. Several times he missed the mute and I should have known then to forget it, but I was sucked in by what I took to be an opportunity I might one day regret not going for.

In one instance during the interview, in response to question Shawn asked about my willingness to work for what they were paying, I told him that I get a disability retirement check from the military that gives me a bit of a cushion. He asked me to wait and talked to Josh – without muting – about how careful you have to be hiring disabled people and all the ADA rules. So in my opinion he might have just offered me the trial to be safe but never had any intention of keeping me on. Too bad for him, though, he would have received a $14,800 tax break for hiring a disabled vet.

At the end of the Skype interview – about 35 minutes – they invited me out for a trial.

They sublet a 4 bedroom house and rent out the rooms (part of Hollingsgate or whatever they call their joint real estate venture that also runs Valhalla). I was told by Shawn it was $15.00/night when interviewed but it turned out Sarah charged me $25.00 (better than $65 for a hotel, but still not what they had told me).

My accomodation was a small room with no furniture other than a single-wide bed with a sleeping bag on top of the mattress. I signed a 3 or 4 page rental agreement for 6 nights. I left Friday so did not use 2 nights I paid in advance for. Of course they kept the money. I returned the key to the house but never got my $10.00 key deposit back either.

I was referred to as “newbie” by a several people. Few introduced themselves, though I must admit I really like Mrs. Gately, whose sunglasses I repaired. She was very nice. So was Jon.

I was never invited out to lunch or over to anyone’s house or out gaming. Never met with Shawn and he skipped right past me during his famous Studio Updates. The only time we spoke was in passing. A few of the others were just downright rude.

Though Josh called me “Padawan” once or twice, I was never taught anything. Oh, he did once ask me why I was using my own brushes and straight away brought me over a fistful of hobby brushes more suited to painting a mural than a miniature. I did not use them . . . I couldn’t.

I’ve been painting miniatures since 1987, but was willing to learn some new stuff but got nothing. I think that I painted as good or better than anyone there from what I saw – and as fast – but did not really get a good feel for the talent level because of the assembly-line-hurry-up-nature of the place.

I received an art scholarship when I was 10 years old. I have B.S. degrees in history and art. I am a hard worker. I’ve done work for the Smithsonian and for numerous museums and private individuals, but looked forward to learning what they had to teach me. I have 25 years miniatures painting experience. I worked for President Bush for 2-1/2 years taking care of all of his art and memorabilia. I was a museum curator for 5 years. But apparently I fell short.

Those are the facts and an opinion or two. Can’t say much more than that. I do know that BTP has a huge painter turnover issue and must need painters bad. Check out the recent group photo on the BTP blog. Only 4 or 5 out of the 16 people in the picture are full-time painters.

tenebre wrote:
He responded to me this morning.

He offered 4 solutions. 2 of which involved me sending my army to them therefore those are not on the table.

one was a partial refund (half of the partial refund i requested)
The other was an offer to fly a painted to me to repaint.

I asked about the details of the second one. Honestly if he is willing to do that it at least says a lot about commitment to customer service.

The refund is nowhere near enough to get a repaint so that would only soften the blow.
Once he responds on the specifics of having someone come to me to repaint then I will inform you all as well.

 heartserenade wrote:
Fly a painter? Seriously?

I think it's better if you just get a refund. Then hire another painting company to fix the things you don't like with said refund.

winterdyne wrote:
Dude, no. Looking at what you have, to bring that up to scratch is more than a few tweaks - it's basically a full repaint that's needed. Long, long job.