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 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

That's awesome, glad to hear!

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

A settlement with BTP? While I understand trading your silence on the matter for money back as the , I'd point out that it explicitly goes against what you posted so often and pretty much gives up on the biggest moral point you were trying to make with your youtube videos. Again, I understand that you need to look out for your finances first but from a strictly observer stance it is disappointing that ultimately BTP got exactly what they wanted first and most (silence on the matter).

 warboss wrote:

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

A settlement with BTP? While I understand trading your silence on the matter for money back as the , I'd point out that it explicitly goes against what you posted so often and pretty much gives up on the biggest moral point you were trying to make with your youtube videos. Again, I understand that you need to look out for your finances first but from a strictly observer stance it is disappointing that ultimately BTP got exactly what they wanted first and most (silence on the matter).

*looks at 61 page thread*

They hardly got silence on the matter.

 djones520 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

A settlement with BTP? While I understand trading your silence on the matter for money back as the , I'd point out that it explicitly goes against what you posted so often and pretty much gives up on the biggest moral point you were trying to make with your youtube videos. Again, I understand that you need to look out for your finances first but from a strictly observer stance it is disappointing that ultimately BTP got exactly what they wanted first and most (silence on the matter).

*looks at 61 page thread*

They hardly got silence on the matter.

Well the video's are down, so there's that. Kinda sad that it was taken down because that's a pretty good warning to anyone considering Blue Table Painting

 tenebre wrote:
A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

I'm glad to hear that.

 RivenSkull wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

A settlement with BTP? While I understand trading your silence on the matter for money back as the , I'd point out that it explicitly goes against what you posted so often and pretty much gives up on the biggest moral point you were trying to make with your youtube videos. Again, I understand that you need to look out for your finances first but from a strictly observer stance it is disappointing that ultimately BTP got exactly what they wanted first and most (silence on the matter).

*looks at 61 page thread*

They hardly got silence on the matter.

Well the video's are down, so there's that. Kinda sad that it was taken down because that's a pretty good warning to anyone considering Blue Table Painting

I did not notice that... that is a bit unfortunate.

If that was part of the settlement, I'm sure Tenebre came out on top, but it may end up creating some future victims of BTP. :(

I didn't realize he took the videos down as well as I was referring to silence in the present and future, not deleting the past as well. That is even more disappointing. I can't fault him though for looking out for his own finances as that frankly should be his own personal priority. It just doesn't help the community as much nor does it put any pressure on BTP to not do the same thing to someone else and claim ignorance. I'm curious if BTP will put some sort of penalty/prohibition/disclaimer about posting "negative" videos about their work into their terms at some point. It obviously would be very difficult to enforce but from the tone of their previous responses to this whole matter I wouldn't put trying to do so past them.

The videos are quite disappointing but I do believe it is standard for any settlement to have a non-disclosure aspect to it, no? I do not see any fault in this.

As a community, it should still be our job to ensure as few people do to BTP as possible or are at least warned about the absolute lack of ethics. I am sure there is still stuff online about BTP's poor handling (including this thread). In addition, I would hope more videos of other people unsatisfied with there stuff would come up. BTP has taken a hit but the pressure should be relaxed till they fix their ways.

... or at least I can hope?

 warboss wrote:
I didn't realize he took the videos down as well as I was referring to silence in the present and future, not deleting the past as well. That is even more disappointing. I can't fault him though for looking out for his own finances as that frankly should be his own personal priority. It just doesn't help the community as much nor does it put any pressure on BTP to not do the same thing to someone else and claim ignorance. I'm curious if BTP will put some sort of penalty/prohibition/disclaimer about posting "negative" videos about their work into their terms at some point. It obviously would be very difficult to enforce but from the tone of their previous responses to this whole matter I wouldn't put trying to do so past them.

Yeah. That's something. A clause in the contract voiding any form of refund or whatnot if any form of review is posted. That would suck.

Dakka may as well put tenebre's lawyer on retainer for the next victims of BTP.

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

Well.... glad you guys at least came to a settlement, and even better, you now have a legally binding (i'm assuming, due to the NDA) settlement agreement that he HAS to make good on.

Shouldn't have come to this though. I know you can't comment, but just thinking outloud.... i sure hope that recoupment of any incurred legal fees to get to this step were part of the settlement on your end.




Just goes to show what a freakin' wild west atmosphere commission painting can be. Certainly there are great stand up guys out there, but you really need to do your research very thoroughly.

And this is a best case scenario between two parties both within the same country. Once you add an ocean separating them into the mix (and maybe even another language), I suspect trying to "resolve" an issue gets even worse for the customer.

ClockworkChaos wrote:
The videos are quite disappointing but I do believe it is standard for any settlement to have a non-disclosure aspect to it, no? I do not see any fault in this.

Very typical. Also so is non-admission of fault. I'd say any actual / punitive damages suit that reaches settlement agreement, if either / both sides have a lawyer worth their salt, it'll be in there.

(I'm a currently registered and certified paralegal, formerly practicing).

 Haight wrote:

ClockworkChaos wrote:
The videos are quite disappointing but I do believe it is standard for any settlement to have a non-disclosure aspect to it, no? I do not see any fault in this.

Very typical. Also so is non-admission of fault. I'd say any actual / punitive damages suit that reaches settlement agreement, if either / both sides have a lawyer worth their salt, it'll be in there.

(I'm a currently registered and certified paralegal, formerly practicing).

Thanks! That is what I thought but it is very helpful for the confirmation.

I still grumble at BTP but at least tenebre got what he wanted.

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

And apparently involved removing the original video, which is a damn shame.

Thanks for letting us know that an agreement was reached.

Even without the details and the videos, I think this thread stands as a testament to the experiences he had, and others shared their own as well. The videos were particularly damning, but as noted, I can't fault someone for acting in a manner that covers their financial needs.

While it has slipped off the first page, this thread is still in the top 13 or so results on Google.

At least a settlement was reached. Very Well done Tenbre. I hope you got everything to your satisfaction

Can we get a sticky to keep it on the front page? Is that an option?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Can we get a sticky to keep it on the front page? Is that an option?

I think that'd be a good thing but at the same time, it's not like all the discussion went unnoticed on the google front, this thread is 4th from the top https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=blue%20table%20painting&oq=blue%20table%20painting&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2711j0j8

 Crablezworth wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Can we get a sticky to keep it on the front page? Is that an option?

I think that'd be a good thing but at the same time, it's not like all the discussion went unnoticed on the google front, this thread is 4th from the top https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=blue%20table%20painting&oq=blue%20table%20painting&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2711j0j8

It dosen't for me. Too bad the video was taken down, was a huge warning to the community of what blue table painting was all about.

BTP's gakky videos are what helped them trick people thinking they were a positive part of the community, and the fact Shawn works so hard to hide any negative responses under a ton of useless content keeps many people distracted by their smoke and mirrors.

Tenabre got taken for a ride since no one in the community was able to warn him, and I wounder how often people comeing back into the hobby gets ripped off by BTP like he did.

I wonder, could we post his videos? So that he himself isn't breaking contract but the warning would still be there

ToxicBox wrote:
I wonder, could we post his videos? So that he himself isn't breaking contract but the warning would still be there

For a variety of reasons, this will not work, unless BTP's counsel was a buffoon.

There are many, many legal things at play in that one sentence of mine above, legal issues most people don't really understand unless you've worked in the profession (for instance, I squeal with glee every time i see a layman's conversation about IP show up). Ten has copyright to those videos. He also (allegedly) has a settlement that requires that he cannot host or post them.

That settlement probably also states that he has to take action to have them taken down if either party to the settlement discovers them hosted / posted elsewhere - action along the lines of a "Cease and Desist using my Copyrighted stuff without permission, which you definitely don't have because it probably violates my settlement" type thing. It's possible not, but if i were BTP, it'd be in my stipulations pursuant to settlement and written into the settlement.

Again, TOTAL conjecture on my part, but if BTP's counsel was worth its fees, they are going to do everything they possibly can to make it as hard as possible for those vids to see the light of internet again.

If you downloaded the video before he made it private, you could repost it at the risk of flagrantly violating his copyrighted material. It is, however, up to him to decide whether he would want to persue that violation with a DMCA takedown notice to youtube. I doubt (and this is a wild guess) that his agreement covers him enforcing his video's copyright but rather prohibits him from actively disseminating it instead.

 warboss wrote:
If you downloaded the video before he made it private, you could repost it at the risk of flagrantly violating his copyrighted material. It is, however, up to him to decide whether he would want to persue that violation with a DMCA takedown notice to youtube. I doubt (and this is a wild guess) that his agreement covers him enforcing his video's copyright but rather prohibits him from actively disseminating it instead.

Again, all conjecture on my part, and Ten can't confirm.... but...

You'd be surprised, Warboss. There probably is a clause that states that for a set period of time (likely several years) Ten must take "reasonable action by a person of ordinary sense" to cease and desist violators of that CP that either he discovers or that BTP brings to his attention and whereupon within a reasonable period, Ten must furnish proof that he has attempted to deliver a C&D (email, certified letter, etc). Yes he's ultimate not responsible if someone pilfers his vids, but if either of them find out about it, as part of the settlement i would be willing to bet that there's a "you have to at least try to keep people from putting these vids up".

You have to remember, from BTP's perspective, those vids (despite being accurate) are a fiduciary damage mechanism to his business. It's a highly visible, damning series of pretty much undeniable proof of not getting what you paid for, and then jumping through hoops to get it made right. He wants to make sure those never see a URL they can call home again.


Maybe not, but again, that's a stipulation i'd put in. Remember, settlements are about both parties walking away mostly happy, but not 100% (the old anecdote about a good deal being that neither side is really happy with it is very true). Ten was probably after money, in various forms, as he got his models back. BTP wants the videos to go away. Both of them want the entire situation to just go away ; no one in their right mind wants to actually go to court due to the cost involved. Also not sure where Ten is from (St. Louis?) but BTP is in Utah. I won't claim to know about either ones state laws, or how their state courts work, but whatever the potential cause of action was that led to discussions and settlement, one or the other of them (and im' going to go out on a limb and say its BTP, but i could be wrong... ) would end up having to travel to venue.

Again, not sure about the midwest, or mountain west zones, but on the eastern sea board, typically the plaintiff in an interstate case such as this has one of three options: 1) you can file a civil claim in federal court. motions will be made on venue. Venue could go either way, but usually it favors plaintiff. That said, in federal court its not guaranteed to be in St. Louis.

2) If Ten's state allows it, he can file in St. Louis. BTP has to incur travel costs, or motion for change of venue. Again, this usually favors whoever has a "hardship".

3) Ten can file in Utah, incurring travel.


It sucks for at least one person, maybe both.

 tenebre wrote:
I wanted to post an update.

A settlement was reached and I am satisfied.

Part of the settlement included non disclosure as is common in all legal settlements. Therefore I can not comment any further or provide any additional details.

I am happy to hear that a settlement has been reached, and even more happy that it is a settlement that you are satisfied with.

I'm glad you came to a satisfactory settlement but it is a shame the videos had to be removed. Ideally the videos would have stayed but you would have ended with "well BTP made good in the end" but I guess that was never going to happen. We do still have this thread which is good (you aren't going to have to remove all your posts from the threads are you??), but when people come along looking for commission painters it would have been better that the videos had remained. I can totally imagine people searching for info on BTP but missing this thread.

 Haight wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If you downloaded the video before he made it private, you could repost it at the risk of flagrantly violating his copyrighted material. It is, however, up to him to decide whether he would want to persue that violation with a DMCA takedown notice to youtube. I doubt (and this is a wild guess) that his agreement covers him enforcing his video's copyright but rather prohibits him from actively disseminating it instead.

Again, all conjecture on my part, and Ten can't confirm.... but...

You'd be surprised, Warboss. There probably is a clause that states that for a set period of time (likely several years) Ten must take "reasonable action by a person of ordinary sense" to cease and desist violators of that CP that either he discovers or that BTP brings to his attention and whereupon within a reasonable period, Ten must furnish proof that he has attempted to deliver a C&D (email, certified letter, etc). Yes he's ultimate not responsible if someone pilfers his vids, but if either of them find out about it, as part of the settlement i would be willing to bet that there's a "you have to at least try to keep people from putting these vids up".

Thanks for the clarifcation. I would be surprised if BTP had thought of that as they IMHO seem to come off in this whole affair as greedy and vindictive but not particularly good long term planners.

It just stinks to high heaven that Blue table painting gets to walk away with their hands cleaned of the whole affair and the community as a whole suffers because of it.

 swampyturtle wrote:
It just stinks to high heaven that Blue table painting gets to walk away with their hands cleaned of the whole affair and the community as a whole suffers because of it.

Yep. While Blue Table Painting has had a long history of doing this kind of crap, the collective memory of the community doesn't really hold onto that in an upfront aspect. Undoubtedly, Blue Table Painting will sucker in new people who aren't as active online or who missed this, and another video review will pop up lambasting the crappy paint job and the cycle will begin anew, with Blue Table Painting going "This never happens to me. This is the first time anything like this has happened."

I can't fault Tenebre for taking a settlement that he's (hopefully) satisfied with. Making a big show of "good for the community" is good and all, but when several thousand dollars of personal funds are thrown in contention like that, taking the out is something I'm sure most of us would do.

As much as we'd like to have a trophy to hang mangled from the castle walls, in the end it is tenebre's money and decision that he has to make.

What is required of us as a community is vigilance. BTP may have wiped their hands of it, but we should make sure that it is not forgotten by the community.