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$250 is not a lot for a monstrous creature (to a decent level). I would almost certainly be charging around twice that, not including model, shipping, or nonstandard basing costs.

However, I'd probably be spending around 50 hours on it.

I was did not see any of the army until they posted that video on youtube even after asking for work in progress pics for 8 weeks straight.

He has emailed me and I will post when a resolution of some kind comes out of it. So far no offer has been made.

250$ for...... this ????
dear lord....

 YourWellPaintedArmyCom wrote:
250$ for...... this ????
dear lord....

Anyone thinking the price isnt high enough for that level.. i said I want a showcase army.. what level is that? before getting a quote.
keep in mind that was level 6 (they claim 7 is golden daemon level)

Also this is after i told them to fix it 3 times! (the first time the entire underside and face of the bull was solid primer. No eyes teeth or anything. They had 4 chances to fix the prolbme si mentioned in the video. I asked for these to be fixed when i saw the first video posted.

If you go back and look at their first video you can see it was even worse. as I explain it became clear after the 3rd round of "fixes" they were not going to fix anything, just make me wait a week then send a picture or two of a different model.

Any service claiming to do Golden Demon level work really should have Golden Demon finalist (at least) stuff to show and ideally done as commission, not personal works. If they don't (and BTP most definitely don't) then there is a certain amount of caveat emptor at play.

This said, I'm actually pretty shocked by how bad that army is, even for the money you paid. You got terrible service, there's no argument there.

I knew BTP were bad, and I've known this since way back when I was doing commissions. This transcends bad and goes to robbery though. That's a really extensive and excellent video, and while it sucks that you had to go through it, it will hopefully serve as a stern warning against folks considering using them in the future.

 Quarterdime wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
tenebre, PM sent.

I wouldn't recommend their paint service to anyone, but their assembly/conversion services seem solid.

If that was ever good it isn't anymore. I had them assemble 1 miniature, the hero I mentioned earlier. He had 2 weapon options, and I specified which one I wanted. That's right, they didn't listen AND got it wrong. I feel like even if you don't listen there's still that chance that you'll use the right one by accident, but I guess I got unlucky twice in a row. It makes me wonder if they wanted the same weapon to use as a bit, which they did keep as a bit, by the way. They keep all the bits unless you specify otherwise. Just kidding, that's just what they tell you. I specified otherwise and they still didn't send them.

Ugh, that is awful. Too bad that even the conversion/modeling portion of their service has suffered. Sorry that you had that experience with them. Did you get any resolution out of them for the improper assembly?

I've watched your video and I'm appalled they'd have the brass nerve to charge anything for that.

A forge world army, that you've basically hurled money at them to do and they produced that... and that's the results AFTER your initial complaints.

The command group... that standard bearer, are a joke. The delays are ridiculous, the lack of a completed army, the inconsistencies across each unit and the lazy woeful slapped together overall feel... the fact the entire underside of the giant bull wasn't initially even painted despite being turned upward on the model.


This entire army has been given the 'shake n bake' treatment and I'm impressed at your restraint in the video, I'd be using far stronger language.


Shawn @ Blue Table, you dropped the ball totally on this, either offer this guy a refund on the paint or sort it out for him fully and quickly! It's a disgrace.

BTP has a horrible rep

Did you research them before?

 Stevefamine wrote:
BTP has a horrible rep

Did you research them before?

I did but honestly did NOT find any of these bad rep reports. this was the reason i made my own review. To help others.

I have been away from the hobby for many years and when i was in BTP had a good rep, at that time.

Someone should get BTP on this thread. I'm curious as to how they respond.

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
Someone should get BTP on this thread. I'm curious as to how they respond.

They have been known to delete bad reviews/comments from their youtube channel, facebook and anywhere else that will let them.

They were on here when the last of these threads popped up about a year or so ago when they tried to launch a kickstarter to fund selling people pre-painted armies which if I recall failed miserably.

As to pricing.... yea, thats really high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phM2Jw3kjqM

Here is how BTP describes this same army lol...BTP is a joke. It should be fraud for them to use the term Pro-paint..
Welcome to the age of drybrush and washes...where everyone thinks they can paint

Side-note: Sweet Jesus those wolf riders are big lol

 quickfuze wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phM2Jw3kjqM

Here is how BTP describes this same army lol...BTP is a joke. It should be fraud for them to use the term Pro-paint..
Welcome to the age of drybrush and washes...where everyone thinks they can paint

Side-note: Sweet Jesus those wolf riders are big lol

Yeah. That was painful to watch/listen to.

"The client requested a muted palette"

So we just left Primer on 50% of the army.

winterdyne wrote:
Which I'm sure is illegal. Or at least should be.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal because even while the miniatures are in their possession they are not their property to do as their please. Should a client not pay for work done, regardless of the validity of their complaint, the right way to settle the matter is through small claims court or similar. The dispute over payment can then be thrashed out as can the ownership of the miniatures. At no point are you allowed to just sell someone else's property to recover non-payment or a debt when the matter has not even been before some legal authority to decide if there is a debt that needs to be covered.

BTP sound pretty crooked using tactics to coerce people into paying for services they were mis-sold (the standards offered clearly were no where near that supplied) and clearly unhappy with.

I had difficulty seeing exactly on the video, but the work looked like a mix of drybrushing and airbrushing over a black base. There was very little effort put into picking out detail or differentiating the many different parts of the miniature. One of the larger figures shown was just all the same looking, broad highlighting over black, despite the armour clearly being varied and patchwork in nature which should lend itself to a complex finish. What a shame such an expensive set of miniatures will have to now undergo a rescue effort.

That's....atrocious. Honestly the two things that really stick out to me are the fact they just decided to do the crummy OSL job on every model without even asking you first, and that they simply appropriated the money from your conversion budget seemingly without doing any actual conversions.

I hope you get it sorted somehow, the least they could do is refund the difference between whatever you paid and the basic level paintjob they obviously did.

That's awful. Disgustingly so. I'd be taling to my credit card company, as described above.

The "Red lava glow" looks like it was a godsend to their lazy arses - let them get away with not painting most of most of those models and instead just give it a once-over run with the airbrush.

I'd offer to touch-up and detail your Taur'Ruk for free, if you were willing to cover the shipping both ways. Though it wouldn't look the same as the rest of the army anymore if I did that - in that it would no longer look like a black-primed model airbrushed with red..

I've used BTP a few times (last time was about a year ago) and their customer service is atrocious. When I first worked with them, when they were much smaller, the service was actually pretty good. But since then I've had details ignored, armies forgotten about and absolutely no communication from them. I hope this video gets signal boosted and spread, because they are extremely complacent now.

But yeah, I've had to wait the better part of a year for a Sisters project that they didn't even START until past the "late" deadline.

 Azazelx wrote:
That's awful. Disgustingly so. I'd be taling to my credit card company, as described above.

The "Red lava glow" looks like it was a godsend to their lazy arses - let them get away with not painting most of most of those models and instead just give it a once-over run with the airbrush.

especially because i did NOT ask for GLOW. I asked for "Blood and Gore to exceed that of a SAW film." not GLOW

He replied on the YT channel. But i havent heard fro him other than he is 'thinking of a solution." He is mad i posted the review. But i said "I want a showcase army that I will use for youtube battle reports" at the beginning so I don't understand how he thinks it would never be shown.

Blood and gore? Really? Mate, I'm sorry, but that just mad me burst out laughing. There's no blood and gore there.

Of course he's mad. But tough gak. It's what we call "natural consequences".

Sorry cant watch the video.

But I was wondering if you could post what you asked them to do, how long it took and maybe post some pics?

I had a glance but I cant have sound where I am and wouldnt mind getting more incite into this.

From what i can see they look like cheaply animated cartoon models. I wonder how much time they spent on that?

 quickfuze wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phM2Jw3kjqM

Here is how BTP describes this same army lol...BTP is a joke. It should be fraud for them to use the term Pro-paint..
Welcome to the age of drybrush and washes...where everyone thinks they can paint

Side-note: Sweet Jesus those wolf riders are big lol

I noticed that video is uploaded at 480p when many of their other videos are at 1080p, I wonder why, hmmm!

Probably worth making a copy of the BTP one of that army just in case it comes down...

As for the stuff shown in the OP's video... I thought about it this afternoon. I've been doing a bunch of Gondor/Minas Tirith troops for the past few months. I find them bland, and not something especially worth showing off as individuals. Not models I'm especially proud of compared to others, and so I haven't to date. When they're all done, they'll look great as a finished army, so I'm waiting for that. Still, every single one of them has their straps painted and I'd be embarrassed as feth if they were finished to the degree of your $17/head Chaos Dwarves.

 quickfuze wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phM2Jw3kjqM

Here is how BTP describes this same army lol...BTP is a joke. It should be fraud for them to use the term Pro-paint..
Welcome to the age of drybrush and washes...where everyone thinks they can paint

Side-note: Sweet Jesus those wolf riders are big lol

Just watched that. Wow. Why is the Hellcannon's mouth inside and outside the same color??

The bulls are okay looking, and even some of the dwarves. Seriously, the army doesn't look half bad, but not at that price and not at the skill level they claim to provide.

"This is where BTP shines." Yeah, obviously not

They're not bad (arguably) if you wanted, and paid for, tabletop quality. When you wanted and paid for showcase quality, it's insulting. It's basically giving the client a huge birdie.

Agreed - as an army it passes the "four foot test" well. If someone was showing it off as something they'd done themselves, I'd be praising it. As a "professionally"-painted army, it's not worth the $17/model base, and god only knows what was charged for the larger models.

To be fair to BTP, though - I assume some of that fee covers cleaning, assembly, (cork?) basing to give that lava floe effect, and magnetising them - which is a lot of fething about and isn't something I'd be cheap on charging - since it's a right pain in the arse. Especially assembling those CD Warmachines. I haven't taken on clients for years now, but I'd charge a fair bit more, but the quality would be that much higher as well. It seems like BTP put more effort into the assembly, magnetising and basing than on the painting.

I will start by saying I am not connected to BTP and have no inside information. My entire post is speculation from watching their videos and reading information posted about them on various boards.

The business has expanded and contracted a few times. but there was a core of artists that stuck around. now it seems to be a revolving door of zero experience painters. All of the old skilled painters have left. They occasionally appear to do a few one off contract commissions but they are not there to mentor new painters.

Even the admin staff seems to cycle through that place in short order, again always new faces on the videos.

The catalyst to this seems to be a change in how BTP was run. for a long time Shawn ran the company with a woman named Sarah (not sure if her last name was ever mentioned) She seems to be out of the picture now and around the same time BTP started to hemorrhage all of their long term artists.

They now seemed more concerned about pushing projects out the door rather than any sort of quality.

There's no problem with a high turnover of painters. All sorts of businesses hire inexperienced people and still get them to eventually turn out good work. Training and quality control measures exist for a reason.

These are the same quality control measures they claim to have a lot of (in the Youtube comment from the OP's video) that failed. There's the problem - quality control is failing. When that happens, you offer compensation to a paying client - in my experience, if it's an expensive error, a full do-over isn't unwarranted - and revise your systems you have in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Ignoring the client, ignoring their requests, producing a low quality product when they asked and paid for a high quality product, then making no effort to actually resolve the issue other than 'we're looking into it' is piss poor customer service and a piss poor way to run a business.

well to be fair maybe the skullz and heads are the same colour as the bull tauros lol

I do like the overall look of your army. It IS a sweet looking ARMY. But the thing is: You payed for more than that.. you paid for indidivual miniature quality... and that's not exactly what you got :(