Attack on Parliament: Police confirm several shootings; gunman loose - Canada

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**Rusty Trombone**

The argument shouldn't be over guns, but fanaticism. That's the real killer.

My condolences to those personally affected by this tragedy.

**CptJake**

Frazzled wrote:
In periods of heavy phone usage, the cell lines can get clogged. Do texts get through?

Texts are more likely to get through but not guaranteed. They can/will retry unlike a voice call that will either be allocated a time slot on the tower/repeater or not.

**Experiment 626**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Michael Zehaf-Bibeau identified as the dead shooter. A recent convert to Islam, as if anyone reading this is surprised...

The gunman in a fatal shooting that rocked Ottawa on Wendesday has been identified.

Canadian officials told the AP that the shooter, who killed a solider and wounded two others near the Canadian Parliament building, is Michael Zehaf-Bibeau.

Zehaf-Bibeau, 32, was from Quebec and had recently converted to Islam, U.S. sources told Reuters. According to the Globe and Mail, he had been designated a "high-risk traveler" by Canadian officials and was barred from traveling outside the country.

After police chased him inside the Parliament building, Zehaf-Bibeau was killed by Sgt. at Arms Kevin Vickers.

Witnesses told the AP that Zehaf-Bibeau was wearing a scarf over his face when he opened fire in front of the Canadian War Memorial, which is across the street from Parliament.

An Ottawa police spokesman told HuffPost that the police were looking for at least one other suspect. However, in a press conference later on Wednesday, officials declined to say if there were multiple possible shooters.

Wednesday's shooting quickly sparked terrorism fears. Just two days earlier, a Quebec man suspected of ties to radical Islam killed one soldier and wounded another with his car before being killed by police. As Reuters pointed out, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, the attacker, was one of 90 people being monitored by Canadian national police over extremist beliefs.

Earlier this month, NBC News reported that the Canadian government was monitoring "hundreds of people" that is suspected could be planning to join ISIS. Anonymous officials told NBC that they were aware of several threats from ISIS supporters, but they said that none were substantial.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/michael-zehaf-bibea-ottawa_n_6031064.html

Damn... I'd been hoping it was just a dumb*** idiot like with a hate-on like the Moncton shooter, or else a non-Islamist inspired gakhead.

Mayhaps CSIS should start rounding the known crazies up before this gets out of hand?

**nels1031**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Damn... I'd been hoping it was just a dumb*** idiot like with a hate-on like the Moncton shooter, or else a non-Islamist inspired gakhead.

Mayhaps CSIS should start rounding the known crazies up before this gets out of hand?

Why exactly would one have a preference for the motivations of the attacker?

**KamikazeCanuck**

An Islamist attack has a lot more implications and repercussions than just some-crazy-guy.

**Crablezworth**

I think calling this guy a terrorist is a bit hyperbolic, a wannabe terrorist maybe, but I mean this guy was just awful at being a terrorist. To call him a terrorist full on would mean he was effective at instilling terror, I would much rather call him a murderer or a moron or a wannabe because I simply refuse to let a homicidal moronic coward like this win. If yoga on the lawn of parliament is a thing of the past, if security and nationalism is cranked up to 11 we will only legitimize this cowardice and galvanize the radicals and frothing nationalists alike.

**Jihadin**

Crablezworth wrote:
I think calling this guy a terrorist is a bit hyperbolic, wannabe terrorist maybe, but I mean this guy was just awful at being a terrorist.

Someone got killed by them/him. Pretty much North America went on heightening alert because of this action. Which on top of the two soldiers killed two days ago made everyone north of Mexico go "Whoa hold the Hell up now"

**Crablezworth**

Jihadin wrote:
Crablezworth wrote:
I think calling this guy a terrorist is a bit hyperbolic, wannabe terrorist maybe, but I mean this guy was just awful at being a terrorist.

Someone got killed by them/him. Pretty much North America went on heightening alert because of this action. Which on top of the two soldiers killed two days ago made everyone north of Mexico go "Whoa hold the Hell up now"

The more we let his actions change us, the more he earns his title, and in a sense the greater the victory for this piece of crap.

**Jihadin**

Crablezworth wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Crablezworth wrote:
I think calling this guy a terrorist is a bit hyperbolic, wannabe terrorist maybe, but I mean this guy was just awful at being a terrorist.

Someone got killed by them/him. Pretty much North America went on heightening alert because of this action. Which on top of the two soldiers killed two days ago made everyone north of Mexico go "Whoa hold the Hell up now"

The more we let his actions change us, the more he earns his title, and in a sense the greater the victory for this piece of crap.

Trust me. Majority of terrorist are not professionals but then professionals are predictable. Your PM called it a terrorist attack for what it is. What some down south of you border view as work place violence. Question remains since the actions that have taken place are pretty much the actions one saw in Iraq and in Afghanistan. that we on the North American continent is having an "insurgency" issue now.

**Relapse**

I wonder how long it'll be before these guys graduate back up to bombs.

**feeder**

Isn't an attack like this the inevitable result of trying to bomb an ideology out of existence?

**Relapse**

gak happens, bro.

**Jihadin**

That one key ingredient that needs to happen before we are....

a short, slender, sharp-pointed metal pin with a raised helical thread running around it and a slotted head, used to join things together by being rotated so that it pierces wood or other material and is held tightly in place.

Spoiler:

**Relapse**

Jihadin wrote:
That one key ingredient that needs to happen before we are....

a short, slender, sharp-pointed metal pin with a raised helical thread running around it and a slotted head, used to join things together by being rotated so that it pierces wood or other material and is held tightly in place.

Spoiler:

IED's

Just what I'm thinking. Another Oklahoma City or van in the World Trade Center and we're really off to the races. Question is if we'll go back in after ISIS or whoever in the MI. I think we all know it's just a matter of time.

**CptJake**

Relapse wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
That one key ingredient that needs to happen before we are....

a short, slender, sharp-pointed metal pin with a raised helical thread running around it and a slotted head, used to join things together by being rotated so that it pierces wood or other material and is held tightly in place.

Spoiler:

IED's

Just what I'm thinking. Another Oklahoma City or van in the World Trade Center and we're really off to the races. Question is if we'll go back in after ISIS or whoever in the MI. I think we all know it's just a matter of time.

Or a pressure cooker bomb.

Or (and a guy was busted in my local area a while ago) a slew of pipe bombs.

And so on.

Big ANFO bombs are less likely at this point due to reporting requirements on purchasing the fertilizer in quantities needed. Smaller (yet clearly still deadly) bombs are more likely.

**Relapse**

CptJake wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
That one key ingredient that needs to happen before we are....

a short, slender, sharp-pointed metal pin with a raised helical thread running around it and a slotted head, used to join things together by being rotated so that it pierces wood or other material and is held tightly in place.

Spoiler:

IED's

Just what I'm thinking. Another Oklahoma City or van in the World Trade Center and we're really off to the races. Question is if we'll go back in after ISIS or whoever in the MI. I think we all know it's just a matter of time.

Or a pressure cooker bomb.

Or (and a guy was busted in my local area a while ago) a slew of pipe bombs.

And so on.

Big ANFO bombs are less likely at this point due to reporting requirements on purchasing the fertilizer in quantities needed. Smaller (yet clearly still deadly) bombs are more likely.

Good point.

**Da Boss**

You don't need to respond to every terrorist attack with an invasion and occupation hopefully. Especially since despite the superior training, weapons and tactics of your armed forces, it doesn't seem the "fix the problem" to kill a whole pile of Jihadists.

Glad they got the guy and glad it was before too many people were hurt.

**Relapse**

Da Boss wrote:
You don't need to respond to every terrorist attack with an invasion and occupation hopefully. Especially since despite the superior training, weapons and tactics of your armed forces, it doesn't seem the "fix the problem" to kill a whole pile of Jihadists.

Glad they got the guy and glad it was before too many people were hurt.

To tell the truth, the thing that worries me more is a wave of Mosque burnings and attacks on innocent Muslims in retaliation.

**KalashnikovMarine**

And a motivated oohrah to the Sergeant-at-Arms who ventilated one of the bad guys.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Da Boss wrote:
You don't need to respond to every terrorist attack with an invasion and occupation hopefully. Especially since despite the superior training, weapons and tactics of your armed forces, it doesn't seem the "fix the problem" to kill a whole pile of Jihadists.

Glad they got the guy and glad it was before too many people were hurt.

True. But there seems to be some grain of truth to the "legend of Gen. Pershing in the Philippines", which would be totally illegal in today's "more tolerant" society.

**Frazzled**

I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

What more control can Canada have?? They already have registrations.... I guess the only thing left is to use those registrations to take some guns...

Wait, that's already been done. So I guess it's time for Canada to take ALL THE GUNZ!!!

**easysauce**

Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

wont take long for anti gun types to start dancing on the graves of the dead, screaming for more gun control.

Fact is, the shooter had multiple prior felony convictions, had no license for the firearm he had, and is totally ineligible to apply for a license to buy one due to his criminal record.

If anything needs reform... its the court system that lets unstable, multiple felons, walk in and out of it like its nothing....

I mean FFS, the guy who beheaded someone here 3-5 years ago on a grey hound is now allowed to leave the prison on furlong....

**Experiment 626**

easysauce wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

wont take long for anti gun types to start dancing on the graves of the dead, screaming for more gun control.

Fact is, the shooter had multiple prior felony convictions, had no license for the firearm he had, and is totally ineligible to apply for a license to buy one due to his criminal record.

If anything needs reform... its the court system that lets unstable, multiple felons, walk in and out of it like its nothing....

I mean FFS, the guy who beheaded someone here 3-5 years ago on a grey hound is now allowed to leave the prison on furlong....

Sadly, we only have an 'Injustice System' at the moment...
If our system had any kind of teeth, a lifelong loser felon like this idiot would have earned 'dangerous offender' status and thus we could have kept him behind bars where he belonged.

That and we really need to throw out this BS of awarding convicted criminals "time served awaiting trial discounts" upon their actual sentencing...

@Frazzled: While we do have really strict gun control up here, the Conservs did finally turf the expensive & pointless long gun registry a few years back.
Of course, the anti-gun lobby will point to yesterday's tragedy as some kind of "proof" that Harper is evil and if he hadn't done away with the registry it would have of course prevented a career criminal from illegally obtaining his weapon and carrying out his attack.

But then, you're also talking about the country where the anti-gun lobby & their political friends believe the answer to combat urban gun crime is to just ban the sale of bullets within the big city!

**Da Boss**

As far as this sort of thing goes, I don't think gun control is the answer at all. If someone like that wants to get a gun or a bomb, the only thing that is going to stop them is getting caught by counter intelligence before the event. And that can be kind of a crap shoot.

I think the "solution" (if there even is one) is likely to be pretty complex and long term, and more likely to involve trying to engage with disenfranchised people in society so they don't become potential recruits for these sorts of movements.

I mean, I say that, but to be fair, if history has shown us anything it's that there will always be some angry young men out there willing to use violence to make their point.

**Experiment 626**

Da Boss wrote:
As far as this sort of thing goes, I don't think gun control is the answer at all. If someone like that wants to get a gun or a bomb, the only thing that is going to stop them is getting caught by counter intelligence before the event. And that can be kind of a crap shoot.

I think the "solution" (if there even is one) is likely to be pretty complex and long term, and more likely to involve trying to engage with disenfranchised people in society so they don't become potential recruits for these sorts of movements.

I mean, I say that, but to be fair, if history has shown us anything it's that there will always be some angry young men out there willing to use violence to make their point.

Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree with this.
The cynic in me is just waiting, that by next week, the likes of the NDP will turn around and use this as so-called "proof" that things like the moronic and now dead & buried long gun registry would have somehow prevented such an attack, more gun control/national 'assault weapon' ban is needed, etc...

I agree that the only real & viable 'answer' to the current problem of young men being radicalised here at home is going to instead involve much more long term & complex plans. Such as one of the current pilot projects going on up here right now, involving the co-operation of CSIS & RCMP intel identifying potential individuals and then working with both the local Muslim community members & police services to try and de-radicalise impressionable youth.
It won't always be successful, as the Quebec case proved, but hopefully such programs can help in the long term.

But then, I also believe that we need to get much tougher on the known rabble rousers such as Imams who preach hard-line Islamist views & intolerance, arrest them under hate crime laws and toss them into a deep dark cell to rot...

Otherwise any efforts to get to potential radical 'recruits' is pointless since we'll just have one batch (hopefully) de-radicalised, only to have another new crop ready to commit violent acts because we refuse to nip the problem at it's real source.

**Andilus Greatsword**

easysauce wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

wont take long for anti gun types to start dancing on the graves of the dead, screaming for more gun control.

Fact is, the shooter had multiple prior felony convictions, had no license for the firearm he had, and is totally ineligible to apply for a license to buy one due to his criminal record.

If anything needs reform... its the court system that lets unstable, multiple felons, walk in and out of it like its nothing....

I mean FFS, the guy who beheaded someone here 3-5 years ago on a grey hound is now allowed to leave the prison on furlong....

Ehh, Canadians don't tend to really debate about gun control because we already have enough (or arguably more than enough).

**KalashnikovMarine**

easysauce wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

wont take long for anti gun types to start dancing on the graves of the dead, screaming for more gun control.

Already happened. In the first hour of coverage on MSNBC gun control was mentioned.

**Dreadclaw69**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:

And a motivated oohrah to the Sergeant-at-Arms who ventilated one of the bad guys.

A powerful image for sure.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Already happened. In the first hour of coverage on MSNBC gun control was mentioned.

Unseemly haste as always

**Andilus Greatsword**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
easysauce wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised no one is calling for more gun control. I guess that will be tomorrow.

wont take long for anti gun types to start dancing on the graves of the dead, screaming for more gun control.

Already happened. In the first hour of coverage on MSNBC gun control was mentioned.

That's because the US can't report on a foreign event without throwing their own politics into the matter.