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2015/01/09 14:10:50
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
notprop wrote: Vodka. Gas. Oil. Nuclear Power Generation. Military Tech, specifically Aero and Nautical to rattle at those pesky Japanese. Tall leggy chicas.
I think that covers it.
China doesn't particularly use gas or oil (it already has access to cheaper coal), it has its own Nuclear scientists and has its own military development.
China isn't really as much into the whole "piss off everyone around you" strategy like Russia is. It prefers to trade with them and make money.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 17:43:39
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/09 18:35:59
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
China doesn't particularly use gas or oil (it already has access to cheaper coal), it has its own Nuclear scientists and has its own military development.
China isn't really as much into the whole "piss off everyone around you" strategy like Russia is. It prefers to trade with them and make money.
China is completely different from Russia. China has an active industry going, producing staff for the entire world. Russia has nothing but oil.
Howard A Treesong wrote: It's pretty obvious the biggest cause of accidents in Russia is drinking. Either that or they're driving around blindfolded, having seen some videos on YouTube.
Vodka.
Gas.
Oil.
Nuclear Power Generation.
Military Tech, specifically Aero and Nautical to rattle at those pesky Japanese.
Tall leggy chicas.
I think that covers it.
The shopping list is more of revelance to a go it alone Russia, not what China wants. Though on your list is oil, and oil of course is always good.
If fact you can stop at oil, it works as a an export on its own, or so the Saudi's say.
China doesn't particularly use gas or oil (it already has access to cheaper coal), it has its own Nuclear scientists and has its own military development.
China isn't really as much into the whole "piss off everyone around you" strategy like Russia is. It prefers to trade with them and make money.
China is completely different from Russia. China has an active industry going, producing staff for the entire world. Russia has nothing but oil.
All Russia needs to bring is its valued customer status, which it has because its a large market for China's stuff (250m people) and it has oil to sell.
Also why would Russia want to compete with China on manufacturing? The west does not.
Russia can stick with its core competencies. Data services, space tech, military hardware and nukes.
Its has enough to trade with the world for itself, in fact from that list it appears not too dissimilar from an oversized UK or France.
As for sanctions, sure we might close the door but Russia can still trade its wears to the Middle East, Africa, South America etc. This isn't Iran. The US and western Europe has the power to stop trading with Russia if it likes, but has zero power to stop a nation that size making deals in third party countries. We can lean on those countries, but again western geopolitical bloc is not what it was. Again if China and Russia are willing to trade they arent concerned if it make washington or eeurope cry because trade is being done with naughty Putin.
Most of all, once all this is done the fiscal paper trail that shows the Russian economy to be on the ropes (apparently) becomes of little use as anything but toilet paper. How can western banks and nation states declare a neo-Soviet Union mk2 bankrupt and foreclose on it?
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2015/01/09 19:52:16
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Dmitriy, bad Dmitriy!
He should not have signed that decree last month. In principle, it is a good decree because it aims at reducing traffic accidents in Russia (and it does not only target transgender people and sexual deviants, but also alcoholics and many others), but being transgender or sexually deviant does not really affect a person's ability to drive. They should have left that out. I hope the decree is going to be amended.
Most russians didn't have TVs, fridges, freezers or a car (let alone a decent car).
They had food rationing whilst the west was guzzling down coca-cola and steak.
The only reason russia wasn't selling cheap oil and porn then was because the eastern bloc had to buy their crap cars and other tech as they weren't allowed western stuff
Well, until perestroika came in. Then what happened?
What you write is ignorant. How much do you actually know about Soviet Union?
Back in the USSR, from the 1970's onwards, the vast majority of Russians had television, fridges etc.
Cars have never been as popular in Russia as in the West because of the train network.
Food rationing only started to become a thing in the late 80's and '90s.
In the Soviet Union, there was no poverty, everyone had a decent standard of living, even if that standard was somewhat lower than in the West. The Soviet planned economy was uneffective, but compared to what came before and after it, it was great.
China doesn't particularly use gas or oil (it already has access to cheaper coal), it has its own Nuclear scientists and has its own military development.
China isn't really as much into the whole "piss off everyone around you" strategy like Russia is. It prefers to trade with them and make money.
China uses huge amounts of gas and oil, and has to import most of it because it has little natural resources of its own. China is the second biggest importer of oil in the world (after the US)
Chinese military development is based almost entirely on Russian technology, and since the '90s, the Russian and Chinese defense industries have also worked together a lot. Before the '90s, the Chinese defense industry was primitive, only producing cheap copies of old Soviet tech. Since then, China's defense industry has advanced a lot, partially thanks to Russian help.
Ouze wrote: I came to this thread solely to see Iron_Captain defend or at least rationalize this... leaving sad and disappointed.
Sorry to dissapoint, but I am just too Westernised to agree with this bullgak. I can still see some value in that other law that outlawed promotion of non-traditional lifestyles, but this is just ridiculous.
I can still rationalise it though, it is not hard at all. Russians are just a very traditional, conservative people, and adding transgenderism (is that a word?) to the list of disorders that prohibit someone from driving is just Medvedev caving in to the powerful Orthodox-conservative lobby. United Russia is probably hoping that cracking down on transgenders and gays (who are loathed by a large part of Russian people) will make them even more popular. It also can be a scapegoat to distract people from the bad economy. And it also makes some people feel they are getting back at the West (homosexuality and such are often seen as being "Western", and some nationalists like Zhirinovsky believe the West uses gay people to undermine and destroy Russia.).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 21:43:53
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2015/01/09 20:57:57
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Orlanth wrote: All Russia needs to bring is its valued customer status, which it has because its a large market for China's stuff (250m people) and it has oil to sell.
Russia has a population of 143 million, not 250 million.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/01/09 21:26:07
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Orlanth wrote: All Russia needs to bring is its valued customer status, which it has because its a large market for China's stuff (250m people) and it has oil to sell.
Russia has a population of 143 million, not 250 million.
Thank you for the correction, was thinking of the old Soviet population figures as my ballpark.
Its still a large market.
What you write is ignorant. How much do you actually know about Soviet Union?
Back in the USSR, from the 1970's onwards, the vast majority of Russians had television, fridges etc.
Cars have never been as popular in Russia as in the West because of the train network.
Food rationing only started to become a thing in the late 80's and '90s.
In the Soviet Union, there was no poverty, everyone had a decent standard of living, even if that standard was somewhat lower than in the West. The Soviet planned economy was uneffective, but compared to what came before and after it, it was great.
Not going to entirelty retort your rose tinted view of the Soviet era. After all a lot of western ideas of what it was like in the Soviet Union are laced with heavy propaganda. That being said Soviet citizens did have to wait in a long queue fro a crappy car, and while the Soviets inherited and improved on the Tsars rail network, trains cant run everywhere and Russia is a big place. Russia is now stocked with cars, decent ones; and many other things you did not have before.
A lot has improved yes. The main difference is that Russia no longer causes the world to fear its name, and didn't matter much at all under Yeltsin's mismanagement. I can imagine that any self respecting Russian is not happy with that and wants their nation strong again. I think you will get what you want, the real problem is what will you do when you have got it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 21:33:34
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2015/01/09 21:52:46
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Food rationing only started to become a thing in the late 80's and '90s.
In the Soviet Union, there was no poverty, everyone had a decent standard of living, even if that standard was somewhat lower than in the West. The Soviet planned economy was uneffective, but compared to what came before and after it, it was great.
So great that an estimated 5 million people starved to death in 1932-1933 and another estimated million in 1947.
It was so great that in the 70's, Russians lived on average 2 less years than their Western Europe contemporaries (and this distance only increased up until the 90's).
It was so great that the Infant Mortality Rate in the USSR was more than 10 points higher than in Western Europe...
Clearly it was really a workers paradise.
2015/01/09 21:54:32
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Food rationing only started to become a thing in the late 80's and '90s.
In the Soviet Union, there was no poverty, everyone had a decent standard of living, even if that standard was somewhat lower than in the West. The Soviet planned economy was uneffective, but compared to what came before and after it, it was great.
So great that an estimated 5 million people starved to death in 1932-1933 and another estimated million in 1947.
It was so great that in the 70's, Russians lived on average 2 less years than their Western Europe contemporaries (and this distance only increased up until the 90's).
It was so great that the Infant Mortality Rate in the USSR was more than 10 points higher than in Western Europe...
Clearly it was really a workers paradise.
If we're going by infant mortality rate the US is currently hell on earth compared to Europe, so yeah...
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/01/10 00:16:30
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Food rationing only started to become a thing in the late 80's and '90s.
In the Soviet Union, there was no poverty, everyone had a decent standard of living, even if that standard was somewhat lower than in the West. The Soviet planned economy was uneffective, but compared to what came before and after it, it was great.
So great that an estimated 5 million people starved to death in 1932-1933 and another estimated million in 1947.
It was so great that in the 70's, Russians lived on average 2 less years than their Western Europe contemporaries (and this distance only increased up until the 90's).
It was so great that the Infant Mortality Rate in the USSR was more than 10 points higher than in Western Europe...
Clearly it was really a workers paradise.
If we're going by infant mortality rate the US is currently hell on earth compared to Europe, so yeah...
Which that rate has been debunked.
Countries don't tabulate this data the same way, thus skewing the results.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/01/10 00:27:13
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Countries don't tabulate this data the same way, thus skewing the results.
Infant mortality is pretty well defined, live births that die before reaching 1 year old.
And unless European countries like the UK, France, Germany, Sweden etc. are skewing their numbers by not following the WHO guidelines of what is a live birth (any birth that shows signs of life), then the USA is behind. Not drastically so (except from the Scandinavian countries but pretty much everyone is behind them, UK included), but behind.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/10 00:27:59
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/10 00:33:48
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Countries don't tabulate this data the same way, thus skewing the results.
Infant mortality is pretty well defined, live births that die before reaching 1 year old.
And unless European countries like the UK, France, Germany, Sweden etc. are skewing their numbers by not following the WHO guidelines of what is a live birth (any birth that shows signs of life), then the USA is behind. Not drastically so (except from the Scandinavian countries but pretty much everyone is behind them, UK included), but behind.
That's my point... which countries are likely to adhere the WHO guidelines? (ie, did you know many countries don't count death from pre-mature births? Yet, the US count 'em.)
The more freer countries? Or the more strict totalitarian/communist/dictatorial countries?
Anyways, we're going waaaay too off topic here, but the point was that it's dangerous to attempt to compare statistics between countries. It's like trying to compare US crimes vs UK crimes... we just had a massive thread about that one.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/01/10 12:02:35
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Anyways, we're going waaaay too off topic here, but the point was that it's dangerous to attempt to compare statistics between countries. It's like trying to compare US crimes vs UK crimes... we just had a massive thread about that one.
Sorry, but all I got from that was "I was wrong, better call the discussion off topic and run!". If it's dangerous to compare between countries, why is it that you did not object when people did the same with the US and the USSR higher up on this very page?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/01/10 12:09:24
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Countries don't tabulate this data the same way, thus skewing the results.
Next time we have a dumb thread on violent crime in UK v US, remember to post this ok?
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2015/01/10 12:56:57
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Remember Pussy Riot and the indignation in the western media.
Yes, but I'm probably one of the few people that do, and even then I don't really care. Its also worth noting that the actions of Western media are not tacit to those of Western nations, unless you're using "nation" to refer to a group of people distinct from its government. If so, that was not the sense in which I was using that word.
Both issues could on one level be considered not a concern of a wastern nation, but enough lobbyists, many of them with a lot of influence made it politically relevant.
Anyway your post has a backhanded merit, it proves evidence of the twisted point of view in society. If you are not proactively in favour of LGBT and vocal about it, you must be a bigot.
I never called you a bigot, appearing to not like a thing does make one a bigot.
Yes persecuting gays is bad, but what can we do about it. Send tanks into Moscow? Tell Putin he is naughty.? Get the UN to write a strongly worded letter; and while we are forcibly distracted by gay rights issues we aren't paying attention to Ukraine, which we can do something about.
Exactly what I said the West (to the extent that "the West" is a thing) should do: issue a public statement and move on. Absent the commitment of physical resources, states are capable of dealing with multiple geopolitical issues simultaneously.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/10 13:17:57
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/01/10 15:46:36
Subject: Re:Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Exactly what I said the West (to the extent that "the West" is a thing) should do: issue a public statement and move on. Absent the commitment of physical resources, states are capable of dealing with multiple geopolitical issues simultaneously.
Agreed.... If we're still living in a Westphalian system, then there's very little (actually, nothing) that we can/should do to stop Russia, beyond sending them hate mail and saying theyre bad.
2015/01/10 16:38:41
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
The West really shouldn't do anything but to keep quiet and mind it's own business. The West interfering in Russia's internal affairs will only make things worse because to the people it will confirm what the radical nationalists say and empower them.
We don't want the Liberal Democrats getting any more votes.
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2015/01/10 16:47:50
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Iron_Captain wrote: The West really shouldn't do anything but to keep quiet and mind it's own business. The West interfering in Russia's internal affairs will only make things worse because to the people it will confirm what the radical nationalists say and empower them.
We don't want the Liberal Democrats getting any more votes.
The west has no business standing up against violations of human rights!
Could you be any bigger of an apologist? Seriously?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/10 16:48:14
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/01/10 18:04:06
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Iron_Captain wrote: The West really shouldn't do anything but to keep quiet and mind it's own business. The West interfering in Russia's internal affairs will only make things worse because to the people it will confirm what the radical nationalists say and empower them.
We don't want the Liberal Democrats getting any more votes.
The west has no business standing up against violations of human rights!
Could you be any bigger of an apologist? Seriously?
Apologist of what?
As I said, the West 'standing up' for human rights in the case of Russia doesn't do anything except making things even worse.
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2015/01/10 18:09:16
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Anyway your post has a backhanded merit, it proves evidence of the twisted point of view in society. If you are not proactively in favour of LGBT and vocal about it, you must be a bigot.
I never called you a bigot, appearing to not like a thing does make one a bigot.
You don't have to like something to tolerate it. Not liking something doesn't make you a bigot.
It might be an indication that you are inclined to be bigoted towards those views, but it doesn't mean that you'd actively seek to suppress them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/10 18:09:31
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2015/01/10 20:38:25
Subject: Re:Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Agreed.... If we're still living in a Westphalian system, then there's very little (actually, nothing) that we can/should do to stop Russia, beyond sending them hate mail and saying theyre bad.
My last name is Westphal. I like that I have a system named after me.
Also, take it from me. Americans are just donkeycaves with 1st world problems, instead of third world ones. Holiday season+snowstorms+pregnant wife that is imminently due? I wish I could distribute some corporal punishment to half my fellow Americans on the roads.
Russian dash cam videos seem to show that they have no business judging who can and cannot drive in their own screwed up country.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/10 22:41:00
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2015/01/10 22:42:10
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Iron_Captain wrote: The West really shouldn't do anything but to keep quiet and mind it's own business. The West interfering in Russia's internal affairs will only make things worse because to the people it will confirm what the radical nationalists say and empower them.
We don't want the Liberal Democrats getting any more votes.
The west has no business standing up against violations of human rights!
Could you be any bigger of an apologist? Seriously?
Guantanamo.
2015/01/10 22:45:36
Subject: Re:Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Even if somehow transgenders and others of similar lifestyle choice were even different than normal people (they are not), then they are one of the furthest things from the top of what should be Russia's "to improve" list. That whole country is going insane, when looked at from a westerner's eyes.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2015/01/10 22:46:38
Subject: Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Iron_Captain wrote: The West really shouldn't do anything but to keep quiet and mind it's own business. The West interfering in Russia's internal affairs will only make things worse because to the people it will confirm what the radical nationalists say and empower them.
We don't want the Liberal Democrats getting any more votes.
The west has no business standing up against violations of human rights!
Could you be any bigger of an apologist? Seriously?
Guantanamo.
British Colonial Days...
Wanna play this game?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/01/10 22:48:24
Subject: Re:Russia bans transgenders (amongst others) from driving
Every major society is either currently a bunch of psychos, or has been in their history.
Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch trials, the entire reason the Pilgrims came to North America, etc.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
