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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:


Transgender people are far more likely to suffer depression/be suicidal so it's not really up for debate that they have a more fragile mental state.

I wonder why that is? Could it be because of inadequate support and prejudice against them?

I think a lot of it comes from post-transition to be honest with you. While it might not be nice to admit a lot of transgender people are shunned by society or treated like freaks. I don't think that is taken into consideration enough. I know it shouldn't have to be, but ideals and reality never match up sadly.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:


Transgender people are far more likely to suffer depression/be suicidal so it's not really up for debate that they have a more fragile mental state.

I wonder why that is? Could it be because of inadequate support and prejudice against them?

It happens anyway. I know a transgender and learned a lot about the condition.
Post op a number cases actually change sexual preference.

Also adjusting to a new biology is not easy, as is coming to the conclusion you feel a man/woman inside. The person I knew felt this way decades before they came to the conclusion they should be transgender, and in the meantime got married and had that whole relationship play its course.

It doesn't require any discrimination to be a fethed up state. Handling being gay can also be traumatic.

 Orlanth wrote:

MOAR awesome:

If there's a more accurate depiction of Russia, I don't want to know what it is.

 Orlanth wrote:

MOAR awesome:

Prodigy's Voodoo People with a russian guy doing the techno-viking dance at 1:30?

 Orlanth wrote:

The old Soviet Union didn't need an economy. It had a horde, a space program and lots of nukes.
Russia still ticks all three of those boxes, and Putin is in effect turning back the clock to the Cold War era little by little.

I have some sympathy for that. westernised bankrupt Russia resorting to selling cheap oil and porn is not what they want. Most Russians look back to the days not too long ago when the world trembled whenever the Soviet Union moved its hand.
And yes America trembled too, don't believe the hype.

Putin wants a return to those glory days, and he has a good chance of getting what he wants.

If that deosnt convince you try this:
The Us jmnational debt makes almost other nation look competent and solvent, with possible exception of Zimbabwe. However the Us national debt is an irrelevance, as noone can pull the -plug on the US. People can pull the plug on russia, they couldnt pull the plug on the Soviet Union, a return to the old standards will make the fiscal situation a paper exercise of little real relevance.

This is a simplifiction, but Russia has a growing relationship with China and India, and has enormous natural resources to internalise. The only thing making Russia vulnerable is western trade itself, cutting it off makes the import of luxury good more difficult and therefore available to fewer people,. but that wont effect those in power and their cronies. however sanctions have a retrograde effect, like a bee srting that can be drawn out, it only really bites once if Russia draws the sting. I suspect Putin is aiming to do exactly that, and with China's help can do so relatively painlessly.

I would also add that this ban would be looked favourably upon by 'radical' islam. Which means less chance of terrorist attacks / disruption to their country, and the potential for better trade ties with islamic countries. Putin is a strong and effective leader, i agree that the sanction isn't as damaging as it might seem to be.

So are we going to war with these guys next Tuesday or the week after that? Unlikely, but hell what a negative turn politics has been taking itself in. Pander to the nutjobs as much as you like, but when this crap's happening all over the place to different degrees how long until they start throwing rocks at each other? Hopefully Russia can pull itself out of this hole its digging, how much the country damages itself before hand is yet to be seen. Creating a strong image (insomuch Fascism can be looked on as strong) trumps civil liberties any day it would seem.

Thats the thing, the 'western' nations really can't afford to do much of anything at this point. The wars cost money, and the more that gets borrowed off china the more problematic the u.s. situation becomes. Russia just needs to keep itself stable and it could start growing more powerful in comparison simply by the 'competition' weakening itself.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
So are we going to war with these guys next Tuesday or the week after that? Unlikely, but hell what a negative turn politics has been taking itself in. Pander to the nutjobs as much as you like, but when this crap's happening all over the place to different degrees how long until they start throwing rocks at each other? Hopefully Russia can pull itself out of this hole its digging, how much the country damages itself before hand is yet to be seen. Creating a strong image (insomuch Fascism can be looked on as strong) trumps civil liberties any day it would seem.

IF the oil price stays this low for at least 6 months... Russia will be in a world of hurt economically.

My guess is that he's trying to drum up some strong "nationalistic" feelings to help "winter" the coming bad times.

 daedalus wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

MOAR awesome:

If there's a more accurate depiction of Russia, I don't want to know what it is.

Love that video, but the song I heard go with it before was better than the one here.

I came to this thread solely to see Iron_Captain defend or at least rationalize this... leaving sad and disappointed.

 AduroT wrote:

Love that video, but the song I heard go with it before was better than the one here.

I mean, the song kinda sucked, but the sentiment was there.

Putin neeeds to gather as much power as he can as the Russian economy right now is tanking and sinking faster than the Titanic.

 daedalus wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

Love that video, but the song I heard go with it before was better than the one here.

I mean, the song kinda sucked, but the sentiment was there.

Found the original song;

Ouze,
I think that's actually harsh and unfair to him. I doubt he'd be in favour of this.

Back to the original topic, and maybe there is a serious problem with drivers in russia that needs these sort of harsh laws imposed. Seeing this made me stop and re-evaluate the situation: http://lifestyle.ninemsn.com.au/viralvideo/472955/russian-motorists-cackle-at-crummy-road-markings.glance

[LACKEY]Mr President Sir, the Economy is still in free fall and no stimulus can stop it! What shall we do, the public grows restless.

[PUTIN]Best do something crazy that doesn't affect most Russians to distract them from their woes........Oh and Sergey, don't forget to blame the Gays!

When Russia is more bigoted against transgenders than the Islamic Republic of Iran, you know they are going a very, very bad way…

 Orlanth wrote:
the French will stab us in the front

Come on, we love you guys, you brought us GW and the Mython Python and certainly tons of other stuff I just currently do not have in mind!
Not sure what you mean by allies, but currently I cannot imagine either France or the UK getting attacked, and the other country not joining the war to defend them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orlanth wrote:
but then conscience based Christianity has always been very strong in times of persecution, to kill a church movement you need western decadence, not totalitarian repression.

Well, tell that to the Christians of Albania, because sure persecution did not make them more religious, and they were under one of the stricter Communist regime for the longest time in Europe.

Nah, we tried that twice; it's every man for himself in WW3.

 notprop wrote:
Nah, we tried that twice; it's every man for himself in WW3.

Hah, if it ever comes to this, we'll move to the US ASAP

 notprop wrote:
[LACKEY]Mr President Sir, the Economy is still in free fall and no stimulus can stop it! What shall we do, the public grows restless.

[PUTIN]Best do something crazy that doesn't affect most Russians to distract them from their woes........Oh and Sergey, don't forget to blame the Gays!

[LACKEY]Mr President Sir, the Economy is still in free fall and no stimulus can stop it! What shall we do, the public grows restless.

[PUTIN] Relax Gergey, the free fall you are seeing is related only to European and american mbusines links. We are free falling towards China, amnd they are ther ones making the TV's and refridgerators.

[SERGEY] But Mr Presidentski, thr West are verty angry with you, and are saying you are naughty over Crimea.

[PUTIN] are they massing tanks on the border?

[SERGEY] No.

[PUTIN] No problem, simples.

[SERGEY} But Mr Presidentski, the stock holders are getting anxious, they cant buy dollar with rubles. They cant buy share in Euro company.

[PUTIN] are they still buying our Gasprom?

[SERGEY] Yes

[PUTIN] No problem, simples.

[SERGEY] But Mr Presidentki, the west are getting angry because we dont like the Gays.

[PUTIN] And our people?

[SERGEY] Most dont care, except those Pussy Riot and the left wing press.

[PUTIN] And China

[SERGEY] They dont care

[PUTIN] And India

[SERGEY] They dont care either.

[PUTIN] No problem, simples.

[SERGEY] But Mr Presidentski, the West are getting angrier and angrier, we are losing friends and influence.

[PUTIN} No Sergey, They are losing influence, it is drainining out of Mother Russia and we are replacing with other partners at every tantrum. yes the Gays are not happy, but we had to pick someone, and someone who the west have no choice but to like. Now with every anti Gay law I pass the West has no choice but go condemn us, and kill off their own influence further, if they do not their politicians, wo must climb over each other to show the people they are the ones who support this LGBT thing the most, or lose their own support from their own people, who have been conditioned in a few short years to change from people who don't think about LGBT to people who will rise to defend it at any cost, at any price and for any reason. So al we need to do is move our hands and they start yapping like dogs. Dogs with less and less teeth as they have less and less effect from the sanctions.
Soon we can put the price of oil up, they will still need our oil, but we wont need any real trade with them, we make them bark on queue we make them beg on queue, who is master now, and who is doggie.
Simples.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hah, if it ever comes to this, we'll move to the US ASAP

Well, I know I would go to Switzerland. The country that was not attacked neither in WW1 nor in WW2, because it was not important enough and way to well defended.

 Orlanth wrote:

Now with every anti Gay law I pass the West has no choice but go condemn us, and kill off their own influence further...

When has influence over the Russian population, after the end of the Cold War, ever been a concern of a Western nation?

 Orlanth wrote:

...if they do not their politicians, wo must climb over each other to show the people they are the ones who support this LGBT thing the most, or lose their own support from their own people, who have been conditioned in a few short years to change from people who don't think about LGBT to people who will rise to defend it at any cost, at any price and for any reason.

I'm getting the impression that you don't like LGBT people, or their supporters.

 Orlanth wrote:

Soon we can put the price of oil up, they will still need our oil, but we wont need any real trade with them, we make them bark on queue we make them beg on queue, who is master now, and who is doggie.

I don't see the problem. Issue a public statement, and continue the trade negotiations.

 dogma wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

Now with every anti Gay law I pass the West has no choice but go condemn us, and kill off their own influence further...

When has influence over the Russian population, after the end of the Cold War, ever been a concern of a Western nation?

 Orlanth wrote:

...if they do not their politicians, wo must climb over each other to show the people they are the ones who support this LGBT thing the most, or lose their own support from their own people, who have been conditioned in a few short years to change from people who don't think about LGBT to people who will rise to defend it at any cost, at any price and for any reason.

I'm getting the impression that you don't like LGBT people, or their supporters.

 Orlanth wrote:

Soon we can put the price of oil up, they will still need our oil, but we wont need any real trade with them, we make them bark on queue we make them beg on queue, who is master now, and who is doggie.

I don't see the problem. Issue a public statement, and continue the trade negotiations.

Orlanth doesn't live in the same real world as the rest of us, you probably shouldn't really pay much attention to his conspiracy theories.

 Torga_DW wrote:

I would also add that this ban would be looked favourably upon by 'radical' islam. Which means less chance of terrorist attacks / disruption to their country, and the potential for better trade ties with islamic countries. Putin is a strong and effective leader, i agree that the sanction isn't as damaging as it might seem to be.

Yeeeeah... no.

Russia has a bit of a current history with Radical Islam, and they're not friends. See Chechnya, Russian backing of Syria/Assad, etc.

 dogma wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

Now with every anti Gay law I pass the West has no choice but go condemn us, and kill off their own influence further...

When has influence over the Russian population, after the end of the Cold War, ever been a concern of a Western nation?

Remember Pussy Riot and the indignation in the western media.

How about this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/544862.page

Both issues could on one level be considered not a concern of a wastern nation, but enough lobbyists, many of them with a lot of influence made it politically relevant.

You should know better dogma.

 dogma wrote:

I'm getting the impression that you don't like LGBT people, or their supporters.

Please keep your half formed ideas to yourself, you don't know me, and the implications are unwarranted. May I suggest you don't fall back into your old tricks of ad hominem attacks. That you had moved on from that made our many discussions far more bearable and it greatly improved the content of your replies.

Anyway your post has a backhanded merit, it proves evidence of the twisted point of view in society. If you are not proactively in favour of LGBT and vocal about it, you must be a bigot.

Again reference to the previous link. Putin turn up the heat on gays, activists in the UK call for our Olympic team to be recalled and our participation in the games canceled.
And yes just about anyone to be survivable in politics has to be seen to be proactivein support of LGBT rights, the counter point is not necessarily room to hate, but the lack of room for it to be none of our business, or in that topical case to leave politics out of sport..

There is a world of difference between non-participation in activism and opposition. It was quite difficult to have a viewpoint of leaving the Olympics alone, for example. When ideology sets in a neutral standpoint is seen to evaporate into an us and them mentality, and a belief that either you are for us, or you are against us. There is a middle ground, and people have the right to remain on it without label.

It is an effective strategy, we see politicians, even church leaders falling over themselves to prove they are LGBT friendly, when a few years or even months ago LGBT wasnt an issue to them. Even the Pope is on this one. That of course doesnt mean they have actually changed their agendas, and the issues remained for far longer than the current politcal fad, and people in authority are not unaware of them, but the political dynamic has shifted in favour of activism.

Putin can see this. He knows its an easy button to press, ideology always is. It wont be the first time in recent history an ideological opposition to what another nation state is doing causes another nation state to self harm.

Yes persecuting gays is bad, but what can we do about it. Send tanks into Moscow? Tell Putin he is naughty.? Get the UN to write a strongly worded letter; and while we are forcibly distracted by gay rights issues we aren't paying attention to Ukraine, which we can do something about.

 dogma wrote:

I don't see the problem. Issue a public statement, and continue the trade negotiations.

So why don't they do this then?

PhantomViper wrote:

Orlanth doesn't live in the same real world as the rest of us, you probably shouldn't really pay much attention to his conspiracy theories.

You should take a leaf from dogma. He posts something challenging, and a response is usually in order.

However please don't as you say 'pay much attention' to my posts, go ahead do me that favour. You dont ever contribute anything of intelligible value. So I would be pleased as punch if you followed your own advice and went away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

I would also add that this ban would be looked favourably upon by 'radical' islam. Which means less chance of terrorist attacks / disruption to their country, and the potential for better trade ties with islamic countries. Putin is a strong and effective leader, i agree that the sanction isn't as damaging as it might seem to be.

Yeeeeah... no.

Russia has a bit of a current history with Radical Islam, and they're not friends. See Chechnya, Russian backing of Syria/Assad, etc.

Have to agree with Azazel on this one. Russia will be on the target list for a long time.

Come to think of it I don't know of any nation that when on the hate list ever comes off, to my knowledge it hasn't happened yet and appears to be a one way process.

Orlanth, what exactly does Russia have that China needs?

Cheap oil? China just uses coal and an increasing number of nuclear and hydroelectric power plants.

China wants highly educated specialists, which it is better served getting from western countries or training its own.

Vodka.
Gas.
Oil.
Nuclear Power Generation.
Military Tech, specifically Aero and Nautical to rattle at those pesky Japanese.
Tall leggy chicas.

I think that covers it.

It's pretty obvious the biggest cause of accidents in Russia is drinking. Either that or they're driving around blindfolded, having seen some videos on YouTube.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It's pretty obvious the biggest cause of accidents in Russia is drinking. Either that or they're driving around blindfolded, having seen some videos on YouTube.

One does not exclude the other... I'd say it's more likely for the latter to occur when the former is also active...