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 Sir Arun wrote:
Just looked through all those images on OP's link.

You know what I hate about this new codex?

It is Codex Ultramarines with chapter tactics slapped on to facilitate the use of other chapters.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE UNIT PHOTOGRAPHS is painted in the Ultramarines colour scheme. Seriously, GW?

In the 6th edition codex the unit art was varied on purpose to give you the feel that this was a codex dedicated to many chapters. Sure, the UMs had the largest fluff section and the largest miniatures gallery, but overall it still felt like this was a book being used by many chapters.

Now in this new book, except for the CT page, everything else feels like I'm holding a codex of and for the blue boys.

In b4 Marneus Calgar and the Ultramarines are the spiritual liege of all other Space Marines

Could be worse. The Eldar are practically dedicated to Saim-Hann with a small helping of Iyanden. What, did GW sell all the other reference armies on ebay? I know things are bad in terms of money, but surely they aren't that bad!

Don't know if the new sm are powerful or not, they don't seem to fit their decurion stuff in to a 1500 list. And free razorbacks are cool and all, untile someone starts thinking how much 10 razorbacks cost in money and how many mules will be needed to transport the list. The ad mecha stuff free stuff was good, because it was upgrades to already owned models. Free rhinos aren't actualy free, unless someone uses paper printed ones.

The free transport army is hardly overpowered, it can be really strong in games that are all about objectives but that's about it. It also puts heavy restrictions on the army choices and quite frankly, I probably couldn't be arsed to play an army like that more than 3 times before it got boring.

There are much better things in the Codex. White Scars got a buff, Smashbane got a buff ( because Clan Raukaan still functions as the book is indeed called Codex: Space Marines ) and now you can slap a biking Librarius Conclave in the middle of your White Scars army to buff everyone and their pet hamsters.

So, White Scars.

And yeah funnily enough the Razorback spam company also works best with White Scars... scouting bikes and razorbacks everywhere. Drop Pod spam is ofcourse an option but for that I'd take different CT's ofcourse.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Just looked through all those images on OP's link.

You know what I hate about this new codex?

It is Codex Ultramarines with chapter tactics slapped on to facilitate the use of other chapters.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE UNIT PHOTOGRAPHS is painted in the Ultramarines colour scheme. Seriously, GW?

In the 6th edition codex the unit art was varied on purpose to give you the feel that this was a codex dedicated to many chapters. Sure, the UMs had the largest fluff section and the largest miniatures gallery, but overall it still felt like this was a book being used by many chapters.

Now in this new book, except for the CT page, everything else feels like I'm holding a codex of and for the blue boys.

IMO, good. Ultras lost their codex to accommodate 900+ other chapters whose only real difference is the paint on their armour.

I don't think the free transports are more overpowered than other formations in other codexes.
If you want free transports, you will have to field what i have not seen in tournaments since many editions: a lot of tactical squads. I applaud any reward to field these.

For me personally the new codex does not mean that i am now going to buy lots of transports or change a lot of things.

I will try this transport army with what i have and field my tactical squads with free stuff. Nice.

Furthermore I love the "small change" that dreadnoughts now have 4 attacks. They might be worth it now, being able to take on knights.

Finally this codex gives me a VERY good reason for an old plan i have: paint 1 tactical squad from each loyal first founding chapter. If i also add a transport i am building the "transport army" and also have fun painting variety, not mass production.

ORicK wrote:
Finally this codex gives me a VERY good reason for an old plan i have: paint 1 tactical squad from each loyal first founding chapter. If i also add a transport i am building the "transport army" and also have fun painting variety, not mass production.

That's actually kind of a cool idea I mean, it doesn't fit in the context of a battle company, but you could call it a special joint-operations strike force company!

The new codex frustrates me even before it has been released.
Marines is one of the most boring armies to play.
Too static, too predictable, too underwhelming.

However, the good news are White Scars who follow a different pattern.

@Talys: EXACTLY!
And "Joint operations" will be the title for that projec (tahk you!)

A lot more fun to paint and the "parking lot' will at least look quite interesting.

I already have Space Wolves and Blood Angels.
Now i "just" have to add the rest... ;-)

Makumba wrote:
Don't know if the new sm are powerful or not, they don't seem to fit their decurion stuff in to a 1500 list. And free razorbacks are cool and all, untile someone starts thinking how much 10 razorbacks cost in money and how many mules will be needed to transport the list. The ad mecha stuff free stuff was good, because it was upgrades to already owned models. Free rhinos aren't actualy free, unless someone uses paper printed ones.

First, they can indeed fit a full company in 1500 quite handily, along with an auxiliary choice (15 scouts or a speeder+whirlwind are both cheap options.) They even have room to gear up guys and throw in command squads for MORE free transports.

And some of us still have our dusty old rhinos and razorbacks from 5e and before, along with a collection of pods. I could run 6 razors and 6 pods fo' free right this minute in 1500 points. And don't forget for running a gladius you get to have Ultramarines chapter tactic on top of your normal tactic, PLUS a second use of the tactical doctrine for the guys in the battle company.

In objective based games, especially like ITC events, that list will be monstrous. Killing almost 30 different units of marines or vehicles in 5-7 turns is actually a very tall order, and with that many units, they're ready to grab whatever maelstrom objectives come up while dog piling on the eternal war objectives. They can even null deploy with drop pods if going 2nd and sneak first blood off you, and then swarm in on later turns.

This is NOT undisputedly the most powerful thing in 40k. It's powerful in objective heavy situations, and still decent in anything but purge the alien, but can definitely still lose. A single greentide mass-multiassault could take mighty strides in clearing several units off the board, for example.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Just looked through all those images on OP's link.

You know what I hate about this new codex?

It is Codex Ultramarines with chapter tactics slapped on to facilitate the use of other chapters.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE UNIT PHOTOGRAPHS is painted in the Ultramarines colour scheme. Seriously, GW?

In the 6th edition codex the unit art was varied on purpose to give you the feel that this was a codex dedicated to many chapters. Sure, the UMs had the largest fluff section and the largest miniatures gallery, but overall it still felt like this was a book being used by many chapters.

Now in this new book, except for the CT page, everything else feels like I'm holding a codex of and for the blue boys.

This is because almost every senior games workshop sculptor/game tester/painter has a ultramarine fetish. Seriously, read some of the old white dwarfs from a few years ago with the monthly battle reports and when interviewed before/after the game they almost always say something along the lines of "yeah ultramarines are my all time favourite army, in fact I actually have over 25,000 points worth of them"

I do sometimes think that if I was not bombarded by the colour scheme constantly, I may actually take a shine to it.

So, gw wants to sell more metal bawxes, eh?
Also, i don't quite get what does UM tactix do now. Everyone can do it now.

The UM tactics just allow you to do it again! (Or do it at all in a CAD, other chapters have to be a part of a Gladius Strike Force to gain all 3 doctrines, or part of a Demi Company to get the Tac Doctrine)

You could actually run 4 demi companies in an 1850 list.

2 captains, 2 chaplains, 100 marines, and 20 DP/RB spammination

by the old points values is 1764

 jokerkd wrote:
You could actually run 4 demi companies in an 1850 list.

2 captains, 2 chaplains, 100 marines, and 20 DP/RB spammination

by the old points values is 1764

This sounds great.
I'd choose DP's since they arrive where you want them, while RB's are usually get shot down before you can move them far enough.

You'd need 2 Auxilaries (so 330 pts of Scouts) making it 2094 points.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
You'd need 2 Auxilaries (so 330 pts of Scouts) making it 2094 points.

damn it!

You only need one Auxiliary.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
You only need one Auxiliary.

Still bad news.

Man, Fieravious Carron is going to have an aneurysm.

So on another note scouts are bumped up to Ws and Bs4 with no points increase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They can still take the Land Speeder Storm for 40pts and the assault cannon is a 15pt upgrade.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
You only need one Auxiliary.

For 2 Companies you need 2 Auxilaries as that's 2 Gladius Strike Forces (maximum of 2 Demi-companies in a Gladius)

i gotta say, while some chapters may hav gotten dinged a bit, this is a great codex for Crimson Fist players. Special Issue Ammo getting bloter drill is real nice, and a ten point drop in Sternguard cost dont hurt. Most importantly- the guy who makes the sternguard scoring, Pedro Kantor, just got alot more survivable, somehoe they must hav found him a suit of Artificer Armour, hes now 2+ with a 4+ Invul and a 5++ Fnp, awesome!
And if you need somethign even killier, you can take cousin Lysander who somehoe became even more survivable with FnP. Throw in the Chapter specific Warlord Traits in the WD and things are finally looking up for the Sons of Dorn.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

lustigjh wrote:Could people use this formation to drop a bunch of free empty ob sec drop pods (ghost pods?) on objectives? Not sure if that's a thing or not

Oh yes it is.

And everything in those core formations is Objective Secured, so any purchased dedicated transports (including drop pods) are also objective secured. MWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ugh. As if drop pods weren't cheesy enough as is. This game is becoming so much fuuuuuuuun. ZZZZZZZZZZ.

I better start writing a Ghostbusters list consisting of MSU deep strike Plaguebearers to clean up ghost pods dropped on objectives like shiny metal turds or else find a new hobby.

It's not like METAL BOXES and soda cans are hard to kill...and that idea of yours is probably a good counter to it. Also, drop pods aren't OP, just saying.

35 point objsec soda can which doesn't mishap if it stays on the board and requires anti armor attacks to remove? It's definitely too cheap for what it does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Just looked through all those images on OP's link.

You know what I hate about this new codex?

It is Codex Ultramarines with chapter tactics slapped on to facilitate the use of other chapters.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE UNIT PHOTOGRAPHS is painted in the Ultramarines colour scheme. Seriously, GW?

In the 6th edition codex the unit art was varied on purpose to give you the feel that this was a codex dedicated to many chapters. Sure, the UMs had the largest fluff section and the largest miniatures gallery, but overall it still felt like this was a book being used by many chapters.

Now in this new book, except for the CT page, everything else feels like I'm holding a codex of and for the blue boys.

If this is true, much of the sarcastic posting in the "totally made up rumors" thread actually came true. How hilarious

Is this better?/ legal.
Chapter Master Smash Fether-225pts

Command Squad with Narthecium 4x storm shields, 3x power mauls 1x power
210pts
Razorback

3 TAC squads 210
Razorbacks

Assault Marines with 2 flamers: 80pts
Drop pod

Devastators with 4x gravcannons-210pts
Drop Pod


Chaplain on bike-110pts

3 TAC squads 210
Razorbacks

Assault Marines with 2 flamers 80pts
Drop Pod

Devastators with 4x gravcannons-210pts
Drop Pod



Techmarine-65pts

2 predators with Vindicator

300pts

Aegis Defense Line- 50pts

 Ratius wrote:
It also has no AA and MSU bikers arent particularly scary built as they are above.

It costs 20 points to put a TL lascannon on a free Razorback. Do that a few times and that's your AA. Besides, this formation can bring 2,400 points to an 1850 match, do you really think it's wise to put things in reserve and put yourself at an even greater disadvantage?

The formation is severely OP and broken.

Pretty sure you can't take an Aegis and stay battleforged while using the gladius.

If you're looking to exploit the free vehicle detachment, the two lists below are fine examples I pulled out of the rumors thread:

 pretre wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So... Everything in the Demi/Full company gets obsec, not just the tacticals.

My Drop List with 2 Demis has 26 Obsec Units, 12 of which are pods.

Could you post the list again? I'm intrigued.

Just a quick one:

Two Demi-Companies so both DC groups have Obsec, Tactical Doctrines, Free Transports

Demi Company 1
Captain - 90
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Assault Squad with 2 Flamers in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 90
5 Dev Squad with 4 Grav, Cherub in Drop Pod with Locator Beacon - 225

Demi-Company 2
Chaplain - 90
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Assault Squad with 2 Flamers in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 90
5 Dev Squad with 4 Grav, Cherub in Drop Pod with Locator Beacon - 225

1st Company Task Force (PE vs one unit at start of game, -2 Leadership for enemy if within 12" of 3 units)
5 Sternguard in Drop Pod
5 Sternguard in Drop Pod
5 Sternguard in Drop Pod

1845

one from MikhailLenin

Spoiler:

New White Scars based on new SM Codex:

Gladius Strike Force Detachment - Gain Combat Doctrines

Battle Company (2 Demi Company Combined) Core - All Transport purchased are Free, but not their Upgrades. Additionally gain 2 Tactical Doctrines and all Models in it are Objective Secured.

Kor-Sarro Khan (Warlord - Grants Scout to all and 12" Reroll Morale Bubble)
Chaplain w/ Auspex
6x 5 Tactical Marines with 1 Grav Cannon/Amp in a Razorback with Lascannon / TL Plasma
2x 5 Assault Marines with 2 Flamers in a Razorback with Lascannon / TL Plasma
2x 5 Devastator Marines with 1 Grav Cannon/Amp in a Razorback with Lascannon / TL Plasma

Storm Wing Auxilliary - As long as 1 Stormtalon is alive, the Raven gains Strafing Run.

Stormraven with TL AssCan, TL MM
2x Stormtalon with TL AssCan, Skyhammer Missiles

Total Points 1850.

I think he ended up swapping some grav on tacs around, but still.

 docdoom77 wrote:
Pretty sure you can't take an Aegis and stay battleforged while using the gladius.

If you're looking to exploit the free vehicle detachment, the two lists below are fine examples I pulled out of the rumors thread:

 pretre wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So... Everything in the Demi/Full company gets obsec, not just the tacticals.

My Drop List with 2 Demis has 26 Obsec Units, 12 of which are pods.

Could you post the list again? I'm intrigued.

Just a quick one:

Two Demi-Companies so both DC groups have Obsec, Tactical Doctrines, Free Transports

Demi Company 1
Captain - 90
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Assault Squad with 2 Flamers in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 90
5 Dev Squad with 4 Grav, Cherub in Drop Pod with Locator Beacon - 225

Demi-Company 2
Chaplain - 90
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Tac with Combi-Melta/Melta in DP with Deathwind - 100
5 Assault Squad with 2 Flamers in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 90
5 Dev Squad with 4 Grav, Cherub in Drop Pod with Locator Beacon - 225

1st Company Task Force (PE vs one unit at start of game, -2 Leadership for enemy if within 12" of 3 units)
5 Sternguard in Drop Pod
5 Sternguard in Drop Pod
5 Sternguard in Drop Pod

1845

one from MikhailLenin

Spoiler:

New White Scars based on new SM Codex:

Gladius Strike Force Detachment - Gain Combat Doctrines

Battle Company (2 Demi Company Combined) Core - All Transport purchased are Free, but not their Upgrades. Additionally gain 2 Tactical Doctrines and all Models in it are Objective Secured.

Kor-Sarro Khan (Warlord - Grants Scout to all and 12" Reroll Morale Bubble)
Chaplain w/ Auspex
6x 5 Tactical Marines with 1 Grav Cannon/Amp in a Razorback with Lascannon / TL Plasma
2x 5 Assault Marines with 2 Flamers in a Razorback with Lascannon / TL Plasma
2x 5 Devastator Marines with 1 Grav Cannon/Amp in a Razorback with Lascannon / TL Plasma

Storm Wing Auxilliary - As long as 1 Stormtalon is alive, the Raven gains Strafing Run.

Stormraven with TL AssCan, TL MM
2x Stormtalon with TL AssCan, Skyhammer Missiles

Total Points 1850.

I think he ended up swapping some grav on tacs around, but still.

Then drop the aegis and give lascannons to the preds. Easy swap



Automatically Appended Next Post:
That white scars list is pretty brutal man.

By the way, this codex made BA, SW, CSM, and IG look like complete garbage. They're obsolete now. Going back to the OP, yes the codex is too much because of that reason.

Anyone disagree?

With the current state of the game as a whole "on 11" and rising, who cares?

When they fix Eldar maybe I'll start to feel guilty...

This era of 40k is about cheese, broken combos, power gaming and min/maxing.

Wish it wasn't, but the formation and ally rules ( to name a few things) have given cheesmongers a green light to do what they do.

So don't sweat it, just roll with it.

Next edition maybe they (GW) will come to their senses.

Maybe not...

From (yet another) SM thread:

Or we could just wait until the rest of the codicies get updated which is very likely (easily) by the end of 2015 and then assess the lay of the land / meta game?

There have always always been codicies that have been "left behind" with release schedules. This is no different whatsoever. The only positive point this time is that GW actually seem to be belting out releases quite quickly so likely it will balance out.

Then we'll get 8th