Switch Theme:

PPC - Points for ALL units, upgrades and battalions in Age of Sigmar  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I'll stay excited

   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




The new update looks really great. I should probably go buy some more miniatures
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




Looking at the Daemon estimation I have some issues and I think you may have made some error for the Soulgrinder (which, when marked, is valued at the same level than Malekith). It is powerful, but with less endurance, and shooting is subpar at best. Meanwhile, the damage potential of Malekith is on a whole other level, with casting and command potential as well.
Also the beast of nurgle did not change at all while all other "large" infantry took some increase. Is it normal ?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Really loving the comp so far. Definitely the most balanced I have seen and played with (Compared to Arzg).

Just a few things I have noticed when playing my woodies.

- I feel sisters of the thorn are a bit over costed. I see them as being around 150-160 points. What's your take on them?

-The issue I have the woodelf book compared to other factions i play (HE and Lizards) is woodies are highly reliant on cover. It seems that most units only gain benefits from being in cover. However the only access Woodies have to cover is through Duruthu (Main reason I pick him is for the command ability).

- I can't find anywhere in the rules that says Woodies get to start with a free Sylvaneth wood. Can we comp it in? Like one sylvaneth wood (as described in the rule book)? Or can Woodies have an option to purchase woods?

Other than that, keep up the good work. I'll be following

EDIT:

Few other things:
-Treeman Ancient seems a tad bit over costed.
- Waywatchers seem under costed. Compare 9 Waywatchers (118) to 10 Glade guard (110). Compare the stat differences between the units and it leads us to say that way watchers should probably have a base cost a bit higher. Maybe 80 points for 5 and then 13-14 points per model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/28 08:34:49


 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Andreas 2.0 wrote:The new update looks really great. I should probably go buy some more miniatures


Thanks! Yeah, I'm trying my best not to purchase anything until I've finished my Vampire Counts army, but it's impossible to resist!

Araknir wrote:Looking at the Daemon estimation I have some issues and I think you may have made some error for the Soulgrinder (which, when marked, is valued at the same level than Malekith). It is powerful, but with less endurance, and shooting is subpar at best. Meanwhile, the damage potential of Malekith is on a whole other level, with casting and command potential as well.
Also the beast of nurgle did not change at all while all other "large" infantry took some increase. Is it normal ?

You are right! The Soul Grinder was being calculated with both Warpmetal Blade and Daemonbone Talon included. Malekith was also too cheap for his damage output, especially when counting his ranged weapon. Both will be changed in v0.5, thanks!
The Beasts of Nurgle didn't warrant a raise when using the fixed formula, as it seemed their dmg output compared to their toughness was pretty balanced as it was. Have you tried them and found this wrong? None in my group owns DoC, so we can only rely on you guys testing them out and providing feedback, it is most appreciated

HalfBlood wrote:Really loving the comp so far. Definitely the most balanced I have seen and played with (Compared to Arzg).

Thanks mate, it's always nice to hear something you labour on finds use out there!

Halfblood wrote:I feel sisters of the thorn are a bit over costed. I see them as being around 150-160 points. What's your take on them?

For the sisters, we calculated the worth of the unit to around 150pts, and added the rest for their ability to cast spells, which essentially makes the unit a 10 wound, 12" fast wizard with plenty of attacks both ranged and in melee. As with Daemons, my group don't own WE (anymore) so we rely solely on others testing the list out. As you've found them overcosted, I have listed them at 160 pts in v0.4, please let me know if that feels better in the game.

HalfBlood wrote:I can't find anywhere in the rules that says Woodies get to start with a free Sylvaneth wood. Can we comp it in? Like one sylvaneth wood (as described in the rule book)? Or can Woodies have an option to purchase woods?

I don't think they can start with a wood in AoS, and while I find the idea appealing, it would mean we have to make another change/addition to the rules. We try to keep things as true to the original as possible, but if more people find it's appropriate that we add an option to purchase woods for WE, I say let's do it!

HalfBlood wrote:Treeman Ancient seems a tad bit over costed.
- Waywatchers seem under costed. Compare 9 Waywatchers (118) to 10 Glade guard (110). Compare the stat differences between the units and it leads us to say that way watchers should probably have a base cost a bit higher. Maybe 80 points for 5 and then 13-14 points per model.

Both of them has gone up in points from v0.3 to v0.4 (as has almost all army lists' shooters and monster), but the Treeman Ancient's relative cost compared to the normal Treeman has gone down.

Thank you for the valuable input!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




For the Beasts, I got them in relation to the Drones. Both are pretty similar on the offense (I experienced low volume shooting to be annecdotic most of the time). On the defense, the Beasts are more resilient (1HP more).

The difference lies in the utility from the Beast ability. Being able to disengage and charge or run and charge gives them a pretty impressive ability to slingshot into the backlines of my opponent : put them on a flank, run, charge a chaff unit... endure for a turn and grind it a bit, then disengage and charge into the backline. Going second, they can reliably do this by turn 2 or 3, while i find the drones to be a great tarpit
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




All points lists have been updated to v0.4, and is therefor compatible with the PPC Comps document.
All of it can be found HERE

Araknir wrote:
For the Beasts, I got them in relation to the Drones. Both are pretty similar on the offense (I experienced low volume shooting to be annecdotic most of the time). On the defense, the Beasts are more resilient (1HP more).

The difference lies in the utility from the Beast ability. Being able to disengage and charge or run and charge gives them a pretty impressive ability to slingshot into the backlines of my opponent : put them on a flank, run, charge a chaff unit... endure for a turn and grind it a bit, then disengage and charge into the backline. Going second, they can reliably do this by turn 2 or 3, while i find the drones to be a great tarpit


Hm, while I agree that being able to run/retreat and charge is good, the drone actually is tougher due to its special ability (6,65 wounds), as well as higher damage capacity (1,66 vs 1,24 against armor 5+). The Drone can also fly, and has a 3" higher move. So I still think the Drones should cost more, but not 20 pts more.
I'm leaning towards decreasing the cost of Drone to 90 pts, rather than increasing the Beasts - how does that sound?

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Here are my initial thoughts from the v .4 update. Please keep in mind I have not play tested yet, however I have been playing Warhammer for ~10 years and have a lot of competitive knowledge. So this is just theory hammer.

Durthu:
- He is by far my favorite unit in the book right now. I do feel that he is necessary in all lists because he is the only way Wood Elves have access to forests. For most WE units, they pay for abilities that they only get when they are in forests (look at dryads, waywatchers, banners, etc) So it would be a waste not to take this guy. 335 seems about right.

Treeman:
- I thought the original pricing you had them was a bit generous. I think it was around ~190. 260 may be a bit much though. Here is why:
o Compare his unit card to other monsters. Compare him to the Flamespyre phoenix, or the Hydra, and in my opinion I don’t see how they cost the same.
o Just by theory hammering I would put him around ~230, but who knows I need to play test.

Treeman Ancient:
- This guy should cost about the same as treeman. 300 points is a bit too much. Here is why:
o His melee combat his actually a bit worse than the treeman. Treeman get 5 attacks while Ancients get 4 attacks. The Treeman range attack is better against larger units of infantry while the Ancients range attack is better against heavy units. I would say that this is a wash in comparison. If you factor in range attacks into combat. The Treeman would have a total of 10 attacks a turn while the ancient would have 5 attacks a turn. The last thing to analyze is magic. Ancients have a spell that is only useful if you have a forest. This means you need to take Durthu to make it useful. He will probably be stuck using spells from the book.
o I would factor the Treeman Ancient at around ~240-250 points. The normal Treeman would be 230 points.

Sisters of thorn:
- Can’t wait to try these guys. At 160 I think they are just about right. Unfortunately, their high cost means me want to keep the units small.

Waywatchers vs Glade Guard:
- Here are my thoughts.
8 Waywatchers = 138. 10 Gladeguard = 140.

- I could go into detail about all the differences, but here are the ones that stand out. The following is the benefits that Waywatchers get over Glade Guard. Waywatchers get +1 to save, +1 to bravery, +1 to hit in shooting and combat, +1 attack with their bow, +1 attack in combat. While in cover, enemies receive a -1 penalty when shooting at waywatchers. The only bonus that glade guard get is they get a significant anti-armor attack once per game.
- Unlike the Treeman analysis above, this needs to be changed because while using your comp I would never take GG.
- I feel GG are over costed at the moment. Every turn they will do ~3 wounds a turn in shooting without factoring in save. This also doesn’t factor in your screen rule which will lower their damage output to about ~2 wounds a turn. They also die to anything that is a range attack (6+ saves mean nothing, trust me I play orks.)

- For starters I would make GG cost 120 base. (They cost 140 now). Decrease cost from 13->12.
- Bump Waywatchers to 90 points base. (They cost 80 now). Increase cost from 17->18.

Eternal Guard vs High Elf Spearmen:
- I was wondering if units from other books will have to pay for their shields aswell? Example: Eternal guard have to pay for their shield while HE spearmen don't. Same goes for Lizardmen troops. Just curious.

Keep up the good work. I love everything you have done so far to keep this game alive. I’ll give you more accurate and reliable advice once I get some games in. What are your thoughts?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/29 02:32:26


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




It`s amazing all the people contributing good work to improve the game. Better to let GW just do what they do best -- awesome models and fluff (definitely not rules!). I can`t wait until they AOS 40K ! Ordered a box of Liberators and Judicators plus both special characters. Tonight we ride the storm !!
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Man I'm getting more and more excited about this. The game is slowly finding itself, and with the help of this system, it might actually become an even more balanced game than we're used to from GW. I still have some doubts about characters and "look out sir'ish" abilities. 5 wound characters seem so weak against a shooting heavy army, and you might pay more than 200 points for one :/ I think the proposed coversave bonus when near a friendly unit of the same sized models seems like the best idea I've heard so far. Especially since some models already have the traditional look out sir built in. Keep up the good work!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/29 00:33:42


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I put in my comp suggestions the 50% obscured to balance hero/wizards from being too easily killed by shooting attacks and to prevent people from having Goblins provide cover to Ogres. Somebody will always try to find a way! But yes exciting work being done by the community and you are right I also see the potential for a great game shaping up.
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




HalfBlood wrote:Here are my initial thoughts from the v .4 update.


I'm actually buying everything you wrote - well put!
For v0.5: GG 12p, Waywatchers 18p, Treeman 230p, Ancient 250p.

About the shields, it depends on the unit description - sometimes shields are an option, and sometimes not.


Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Awesome. Glad I can help!

When I started Warhammer in 7th, I didn't know anything about the game. I picked Daemons and to my surprised they were very broken.

So yesterday I got in two games in against my buddy who used my Daemon army against my WE.

I'll update this with my findings later tonight. Out of curiosity, what armies are in your gaming group?

EDIT 1:

So just a little bit about my group. We designed two books for 8th edition (Blood Omens & Snowfall) and we designed a book for 40K (Rewrote Chaos Book to Chaos Legions). When balancing the book we found that there were two types of balance, Internal Balance and External Balance.

Internal Balance is the balance within the book. It is actually what creates “the competitive list”. What is most optimal. A book with internal balance issues results in a unit being spammed in large numbers, or is always chosen over its counterpart. This would be the Waywatcher vs Glade Guard argument I made above.

External Balance is the balance between the book and another book. Comparing the cost of one unit to another unit from different books. This would be me comparing Treeman costs to FirespyrePhoenix. External balance is what people claim about. “He only won because he used XX unit, it just costs so cheap”.

So when we designed our books we found the hardest thing was internal balance. Trying to make every unit in the book optimal relative to one another. So my group and I are going to do what we can to let you know what we think in regards to the WE, Daemons, WoC, Lizardmen, HE, DE, and Bret books. The reason I told you guys this was to explain how we think and why we think that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
External Balance: Eternal Guard (WE) vs High Elf Spearman (HE) vs Dreadspears (DE):

Analysis: I believe all three of these types of spearmen are practically the same. Their stats are all the same, what changes is their abilities. They all have shields that give the unit a unique re-roll of 1, or 2 in a certain condition. Eternal Guard need to be in cover, HE need to be taking wounds from range, DE need to be taking wounds in combat. I would say this is a wash since Eternal guard receive +1 Bravery. They all have an ability that buffs to hit rolls if they don’t move. I would say this is a wash aswell. HE Spearmen and Dreadspears gain an additional buff for larger units Eternal guard don’t.

Conclusion: I would put them as all being equal. Make them all 70 points base, 7 points a model. Have the shield included in their cost (This is for Eternal guard), or make eternal guard 60 points base, 6 points a model, and then have them pay 1 point for the shield.



External Balance: Dryads (WE) vs Saurus Warriors (LZ)

Analysis: When I look at Dryads, I had trouble finding good comparisons between other Elf books. I think Saurus Warriors give the best comparison.

10 Saurus Warriors 120 points. (12 points a model)
10 Dryads 125 points (11 points a model)

Saurus Warriors have +4 Bravery, -2 Movement in comparison to Dryads, I think this is a wash maybe advantage to Saurus Wariors. Attack comparison is about equal between Dryads and Saurus Warriors. Ability to purchase Icon and Wardrum = advantage to Saurus Warriors. Impentrable Thicket (WE) vs Ordered Cohort (LZ) = Wash. Stardrake shields vs Enrapturing song and Blessing of the Forest (Situational) = wash. Seems like these units are calculated correctly maybe slight advantage to Saurus.

Conclusion: I would give a slight advantage to Saurus Warriors. Magic will give advantage to Saurus warriors because of Stardrake shields works very well with anything that boosts armor.


Internal Balance: Eternal Guard vs Dryads

Analysis: I really think you guys did a great job with balancing these guys. Let’s compare. Let’s assume:

10 Eternal Guard with shields (70 points, this is my cost from above 7 ppm)
5 Dryads (70 point, 11 ppm)

So number of attacks are equal, Eternal Guard get +1 Bravery, -1 Movement. Let’s assume there is no cover because cover grants abilities for both units. However cover will significantly buff Eternal Guard in comparison to Dryads. If Eternal Guard don’t move they will get significant buffs, +1 to hit, wound, and armor. While Dryads will get +1 to hit ONLY in their combat phase. I definitely see an advantage going to Eternal Guard. Now the question is, do Eternal Guard cost too little, or do Dryads cost too much? Well above we noted that EG, HE spearman, and Dreadspears are practically the same. Therefore we can conclude that Dryads cost too much.

If we need to do further comparison we can compare them to Wildwood Rangers, or Executioners, or Phoenix Guard. All of these units, you get 5 units for 70 points will varying ppm. However you see significant problems for Dryads.

Conclusion: Right now I would drop Dryad base cost from 70 ->; 55. 11 ppm -> 11 ppm for now.

That is all for now. I will post the results for my games later tonight. Thanks for Reading.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/07/30 08:29:09


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Dbl Post

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/29 23:13:10


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yes halfblod that's some really good points about the stats. Good work! Anyone have any thoughts on limiting how many models in a unit? Say 20 or 30 max?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Well I would say 30-40 for infantry. Most units claim a bonus when their unit reaches 20 models. Some when they reach 30 models. For cav/heavy cav you could limit it to 10-15.



   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think 30 should be plenty, any more after that might be too cumbersome .
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Yea, the only problem with 30, is some units only receive the bonus with 30 models. An enemy just has to kill 1, and that bonus is lost immediately. That's why I said 40.

I feel most armies will play with units of about 10-25. Armies like skaven, VC, etc will field larger units. We just want to prevent deathstars from happening. My group was already trying to break the game. We were thinking a large unit of temple guard (30) with a Slaan behind them. 4+ armor re-roll saves. Ignore rend of -1, -2. Can easily buff their armor to a 3+ with magic.

If we want to be more detailed we could comp a max unit size in? I am interested in seeing what tournaments will do with AoS. What will be their comp system?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/30 01:03:47


 
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Trying to break a system is always fun. It's something I enjoy immensly. One thing we have already thought of is summoning of course. That needed to be dealt with. The other obvious thing is the force multiplier you are discussing right now. Zombies would be my best pick for a potential problem. Dirt cheap and quite sturdy with their high bravery. On top of that you have all the ressurection shenanigans which probably makes it a horrible experience to run into. Imagine this - 100 zombies backed by a few corpse carts and some necromancers. They can surround these guys so you can't get to them with flying, and it won't even cost you that much. And to make matters worse, we can't fix the problem by just making maximum units, because zombies have the ability to merge two units. 100 zombies hitting on 2+ and wounding on 3+ for 3 points each. Ouch... I think there might be a need for a a maximum force multiplier of 1+ for both TH and TW. Just a thought. We could of course say that you can't merge beyond max unit size, butI'm not sure if it's enough.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/30 02:22:13


 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Thank you again for well thought out and written input, HalfBlood!

I think that what we have now is a broad, general, balance from the formula - but as such it can never be perfect, neither for the internal or external balance. Now comes the next big step in the development, that of actually making sure each and every entry is valid within an army list, and well balanced against other lists. It's good to see you've started already, HalfBlood!
My group mainly plays (or will play in short order once our vacation is over) VC, Empire, WoC, HE, Lizardmen, Brets, Beastmen, O&G, and DE.

For maximum unit sizes, I'm still not convinced we need to make that limit. So far, we've found that beyond 25-30 models, it's extremely hard to get the models into close combat.
What I am thinking of, is going through each unit entry that gets a bonus after X models, and raising the whole unit cost when reaching the bonus. A unit that gets +1 to hit after 20 models will probably not cost any more, a unit that gets +2 as well after 30 models could cost +x pt/model in the unit more as they will get a good bonus and keep getting a bonus all the way down 19 models.
So, for Zombies, they can still be dirt cheap to begin with, but might cost double when reaching 30 models or more. That quickly adds upp, considering most of the unit will not get to fight.

That, and adding objectives to a game where a unit can only ever hold 1 objective at a time, could make sure we don't need to set a max unit size.

When it comes to stacking buffs, I would prefer if the same named ability could not stack more than once, if that stops some broken combos. But I think we should play test some more before adding any more limits to the comp.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Escalating point costs seems like a good counter to the cheap death stars. And it doesn't change up rules. I like that better
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




@Attilla Like I said before this is by far the best ruleset I have found. Nothing has compared to it. The balance will come. It may take about 1-2 months, but it will be there. All I am trying to do is make it make sense in my head in terms of balance and competitiveness. I am a very competitive person, been playing this game for about 10 years, but very good at chess 2250 USCF, if you know what that means.

You have done a great job so far! Until school starts again at my university I have a bit of free time so here is what my group got so far:

READ FIRST: If you don’t want to read the unit analysis and just want my opinion about the cost changes, scroll to the underlined parts of the post.
In this post, I discuss Wildwood Rangers, Executioners, Swordmasters. I then discuss Spellweaver, Soceress, High Elf Mage.

External Balance: Wildwood Rangers (WE) vs Executioners (DE) vs Swordmasters (HE)

Analysis: Below, I show the only differences between unit profiles.

Wildwood Rangers: Save = 5+, 2” attack range,
Blackguard: Save = 4+, 2” attack range.
Swordmasters: Save = 4+, 1” attack range.

So after looking at these stats we notice that WW Rangers are more fragile. Advantage goes to Blackguard, then Swordmasters. Now let’s look at abilities.

Wildwood Rangers: Do D3 wounds when wounding a monster (Situational but gives them a role).
Blackguard: Re-roll failed to hit rolls of 1. Immune to battleshock tests when near Malekith (Unreliable).
Swordmasters: Re-roll failed to hit rolls of 1 Re-roll failed saves in the shooting phase.

Current Number Comparison:

Wildwood Rangers: 5 models for (70, 12ppm)
Blackguard: 5 models for (75, 14ppm)
Swordmasters: 5 models for (70, 12ppm)

Conclusion: So it’s pretty obvious that Swordmasters are much better in comparison to the other book’s counterparts. I don’t have numbers to base them off of. So let’s compare WW Rangers to Eternal Guard since we think Eternal Guard costs 7 points.

Internal Balance: WW Rangers vs Eternal Guard

Current Number Comparison:

Wildwood Rangers: 5 models for (70, 12ppm)
Eternal Guard: 10 models for (70, 7ppm)

Differences between profiles: So instead of me breaking down the stats of these units, I will just explain how many wounds they will do.

Wildwood Rangers: A unit of 5 models will do ~4.35 wounds with -1 Rend.
Eternal Guard: A unit of 10 models will do ~2.5 wounds. Eternal guard re-roll saves of 1. If they are in cover its 1, and 2 (Situational). It’s important to note, that if the Eternal Guard form a Fortress of Boughs, their damage output is the same as WW Rangers, however they cannot move, run, charge, or pile in. This makes it useful in defensive scenarios only.

Conclusion: So WW Rangers can pack a serious punch, but are way more fragile. I would make them cost more than Eternal Guard (10 for 70, 7ppm) and more than Dryads (In a previous post I had 5 for 55, 11ppm.

Wildwood Rangers: 5 models for (70 -> 60, 12ppm -> 12ppm)
Blackguard: 5 models for (75 -> 70, 14ppm -> 14ppm)
Swordmasters: 5 models for (70 -> 80, 12ppm -> 15ppm)


Comparing Basic Wizards:

External Balance: Spellweaver (WE) vs Sorceress (DE) vs High Elf Mage (HE)


Profiles: Are identical, except WE has a variety of weapons to choose from. HE gets shafted, with his melee weapon because it doesn’t do D3 wounds unlike the other two casters. Advantage WE and DE.

Abilities:

Spellweaver: Gets Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress: Blood Sacrifice allows her to get +2 to cast if she kills a model.
Mage: Gets +1 to cast, and +1 dispel.

Advantage WE:

PLEASE READ: Spells: I feel all the spells are pretty much equivalent. WE heal ability can be extremely powerful when targeting mounted units. It can be incredibly powerful when you bring back D3, Warhawk riders (4 W a model. Or Sisters of the thorn). Remember it only affects wanderer units so Treekin, and Drayds are unaffected. It is pretty lackluster on normal infantry though. In most cases you are better off giving +1 to armor. DE deals a mortal wound then makes them -1 when making to hit rolls in the shooting and combat phase. At first glance, this ability is average. However its ability to be stacked is what will make it very powerful. Imagine two DE Sorceress, that get +2 to cast, therefore the ability goes off on a 5+. This can turn units who on a 4+ hitting on a 6+. HE creates a large shield that gives all units a 6+ ignore the wound. If you factor in items, each one of these casters casts their standard spell on a 5+. This ability is decent because the bubble is huge. Like 18" and affects all units. I really don't know how to judge these abilities. It seems the DE and WE spell are a bit stronger. The DE spell becomes very powerful when massed. Thoughts? You could make future Sorceress cost an additional 20pts to help fix this. Just a thought.


Spellweaver: (95 -> 95)
Sorceress: (90 -> 95)
Sorceress on Cold One: (110 -> 110)
Mage: (80 -> 80) Adjust steed to be 15 points like Spellweavers Steed. He should start with Arcane power or make him cost 75 and the item cost 5.


In my next post I will discuss BSB differences, and I will offer advice on Monster costs. I bet I can convince you about how broken Phoenixes are and should cost 325+, you just wait . I know we talked about Treeman costs, and Ancient. You should definitely do the original reforms, however if I get time and finish a better analysis I will let you know with more reliable costs

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2015/07/31 05:13:10


 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




New Bedford, MA

Would you slap me repeatedly if I just left this here?...
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

I notice my posts seem to bring threads to a screeching halt. Considering the content of most threads on dakka, you're welcome. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Boggy Man wrote:
Would you slap me repeatedly if I just left this here?...
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html


Haha nice. I actually enjoy making things balanced. It gives us the control and it isn't hard. We can give a powerful unit a hevy cost. Unlike GW just makes new models stronger in game.

GW has always had a balance problem and I assume this game will have that same balance problem except they have a smaller community, and ugly models. I would much rather play GW.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I have to agree. I first bought AOS just because of how cool the models looked. The great work being done here is icing! We can now have a GW game with great models , fluff and now rules as well! Very excited as tomorrow will be my first game!
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




HalfBlood wrote:
 Boggy Man wrote:
Would you slap me repeatedly if I just left this here?...
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html


Haha nice. I actually enjoy making things balanced. It gives us the control and it isn't hard. We can give a powerful unit a hevy cost. Unlike GW just makes new models stronger in game.

GW has always had a balance problem and I assume this game will have that same balance problem except they have a smaller community, and ugly models. I would much rather play GW.


This is actually a really important thing to note. The lack of point costs in aos is a blessing in disguise, and the game is rather enjoyable to boot.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Haldir wrote:
I have to agree. I first bought AOS just because of how cool the models looked. The great work being done here is icing! We can now have a GW game with great models , fluff and now rules as well! Very excited as tomorrow will be my first game!


I left fantasy because it became old. Always played against an enemy deathstar, obscene magic, etc. Games would be determined by "who can 6 dice Dwellers".

Also monsters were very weak in Fantasy. So many games I would watch my Bloodthirster get cannoned Turn 1-2 because my opponents all comer list had 2 cannons. This is the first time that I feel that monsters are the real deal and I am loving it.

Definitely looking forward to using models that I normally wouldn't use (Eternal Guard, Dryads, Treeman, the list goes on). I just feel that a few armies seem to be significantly stronger than others in terms of what they provide. I've read most of the books and it seems the HE, Daemons, and Lizards seem to be just very powerful. So many broken combos we need to balance.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




That is very true. In the comp I made some suggestions regarding broken combos that I will be play testing . If you have time if you could check them out I would appreciate it . Thanks , broken combos are part of what has taken a lot of the fun out of 40K . It would be great to nip it here and play and develop a game that everyone (not just latest cheese)'has a chance.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Haldir wrote:
That is very true. In the comp I made some suggestions regarding broken combos that I will be play testing . If you have time if you could check them out I would appreciate it . Thanks , broken combos are part of what has taken a lot of the fun out of 40K . It would be great to nip it here and play and develop a game that everyone (not just latest cheese)'has a chance.


Yea definitely. Is it in this thread? or can you repost them?

Here are a few things that I thought of.

You can break Phoenixes pretty easily in this game. They have "Attuned to magic". If any spell is casted on them they gain +1 to their save roll. What makes this good is if you combo this with mystic shield. You essentially gain +2 armor making the phoenixes armor be a 3+. It gets even worst when you factor in Asyuron. So that's a 3+ re-rollable. It can get worst if you have any other wizard cast a spell. Now 2+ re-rollable this second spell doesn't even have to target the phoenix. So in theory if you have 2 Phoenixes + 2 Mages. You cast the spell twice, keep them relatively close, you are getting a 2+ armor on both of them. Obviously if you make it rerollable you will be around ~700 points but without it you are looking at 500 points which is VERY reasonable atm. This also doesn't factor in the 4+ rebirth for Flamespyre Phoenix LOL. If they are frostheart phoenix your enemies are affected by a -1 to wound bubble. This bubble stacks. Very powerful and I currently don't have a solution to it unless we increase the cost of them.

I'll have more to come.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I listed them in the comp thread Attilla put up. I think they at least partially address your points about broken combos. I wish you guys played 40 k so we could straighten that mess out!
   
 
Forum Index » AoS Tactics, Army Lists & Rules Questions
Go to: