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 master of ordinance wrote:
Codex inquisition:

Inquisitorial weapons, the Plasma Pistol costs 15 points whilst the Plasma Gun costs 10.

+1 attack in CC and is assault weapon. Not really justifying the price but there is an advantage to the Pistol

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
In 6th edition abaddon had an FAQ that he always rerolled spawnhood and demon prince on the boon table, with a subtext that he could never be either of these units.

7th edition comes out and they remove this rule for what I would guess as a slap to all csm players.

Now boon of mutation for tzeentch is utterly useless (I used to use it on abaddon in 6th all the time if I got it.)

Actually they removed it because they added it to his rules in the digital dataslate he got

Thats interesting! I don't have that dataslate however, so if my Abaddon ever hulks out he will be a daemon of all four gods, meaning he can't run, but if he could run he would run an extra 3 inches!

nareik wrote:
I'm sure we've all read through a codex and seen an option that simply didn't seem to belong there.


For me it is Thousand Son Aspiring Sorcerers (as in the squad leaders) being able to take Gift of Mutation... Didn't Ahriman's Rubric fix that!?

It did fix that. Some sorcerers are of Azheks camp and view the mutations as awful whereas some display theirs openly with pride. I suppose it could represent existing disfiguration, but theres no excuse for the psychic power. Gift of Mutation should be the 'turn you into a spawn' power we used to have, which was a great leveler.

The other issue is that the sorcerers explicitly use the rubrics as bodyguards/shields to soak up enemy fire while they safely cast spells. It makes no sense that when a marine captain walks up that they leap out, waving their blunt staff wildly at his terminator armour and challenge him to a duel.

Experiment 626 wrote:

The issue; The rules for Daemons generating their powers from the God specific lores were never changed. Thus, a model can only generate up to half their powers from their own God's spell lore...
Meaning, the item is 100% unusable by a LoC Warlord (as he comes base with Mastery Lv2!). Hence, you are forced to take a Lv1 Tzherald as your Warlord, who while knowing all 7 spells in the new Tzeentch lore, can only ever cast 1 spell/turn!

That's not quite the issue. A psyker may cast as many spells as they know. A ML1 psyker who knows 2 powers (IE most ML1 psykers) can cast both, so a herald who knows all can cast all.
The issue is having warp charge when you only brought a ML1 psyker- you'd need the rest of your army to contribute dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drasius wrote:


Ahriman can't take Divination despite the fact that he's the most powerful of the corvidae and is shown to use divination powers repeatedly in his novels.

Ahriman can't take a familiar (despite having a named familiar in ATS) making his spell casting less reliable than Unmarked sorcerer number 2.

Ahriman, chief librarian of the legion that invented librarians, does not have a psychic hood. His warp crown, talisman of Tzeentch and various mystic paraphernalia are just for show.

Thrall wizards, psychic wargear from the 3.5 ed codex could easily be brought back as useful extra warp charge generators that don't generate powers themselves. They probably won't be.

Rubric marines are described as animated empty suits of armour who feel no pain due to not having a body. Small arms fire that might wound a marine's body will pass through harmlessly. Only the complete destruction of their armoured shell (with heavy weapons for example) is enough to release the spirit trapped within.
Ingame effect? Standard flesh and blood marine statline, 4+ invuln making them twice as resilient against heavy weapons, no effect against small arms.

Battle of the Fang wrote:‘Your brothers have tended them with exceptional care.
Now we must preserve them further. How many Rune
Priests remain?’
‘Six, but four are acolytes and their powers are untried.
Only myself and Lauf Cloudbreaker have the power to
match a Thousand Sons sorcerer, should one gain the
portals.’

Ingame effect- Thousand sons Sorcerers are markedly less powerful than primitive rune priests.

Maugan Ra has Relentless...Totally useless considering his weapon is assault and relentless does not spread to the squad but it is probably factored in the cost for the character so he could be a bit cheaper.

Hornets, nearly all weapons are 5 points upgrade.
I can understand wanting lances or Pulse Lasers but Starcannons?

For 5 points you can have 48" S8 AP2 Heavy 2 OR 36" S7 AP2 Heavy 2.

Why would you take Starcannons on Hornets? Ever?

The Royal Court formation giving Relentless to everyone. No character has the option to take a rapid-fire or heavy weapon, and therefor doesn't benefit at all.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Daemons losing Eternal Warrior.

A daemon is literally eternal, as in the 40k setting they can only be banished, not killed.

I'm less cut up about this. Canonically force weapons are supposed to be good at fighting daemons, but there was a while there somewhere between 4th and 5th ed that suddenly every multi-wound daemon/monstrous creature, tough character etc that might make bringing a force weapon worthwhile got EW. Then codex daemons was released and they all had it, every one.

Being able to take a riptide/wraithknight/imperial knight outside of apocalypse.

Most Allies make no sense apart from Imperial ones. It also makes it easier to cover your army's weakness. They should be limited to 500pts of allies max.

 =Angel= wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Daemons losing Eternal Warrior.

A daemon is literally eternal, as in the 40k setting they can only be banished, not killed.

I'm less cut up about this. Canonically force weapons are supposed to be good at fighting daemons, but there was a while there somewhere between 4th and 5th ed that suddenly every multi-wound daemon/monstrous creature, tough character etc that might make bringing a force weapon worthwhile got EW. Then codex daemons was released and they all had it, every one.

Aye, Force Weapons were first introduced as anti-Daemon/psyker weapons, then they eventually became power weapons that could inflict ID...then Daemons all got EW and only sported Invul saves so Force Weapons were no more effective than clubs and rifle butts against them...twas very odd.

There are a lot of problems with the CSM codex so i'll just name a few pet peeve. Why can my blast master noise marine take an extra close combat weapon but my noise marines with the smaller sonic blaster cannot? Why can a chaos lord have a spell familiar or why can a Dark Apostle have an Aura of Dark Glory? Why can Warp talons or Possessed champions get two gifts of mutation, I thought they were already mutated Another person has already asked why Daemon Princes aren't Eternal Warrior, or Kharn and Lucius for that matter.

On another note why is Lucius' sword just a power sword? Isn't it still the Blade of the Laer? I don't care if the daemon inside is gone. The sword killed Ferrus, it should be more than just strength user ap3.

 BoomWolf wrote:


Actually, pistols being overcosted gak applies to every single marine codex, and not unique to the spiky ones.

Pistols are overpriced in every codex that includes pistols. It's one of the few things the marines don't have a monopoly on.


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VaneNeuro wrote:
Why can Warp talons or Possessed champions get two gifts of mutation, I thought they were already mutated

Why do you think there's an end to mutation?

VaneNeuro wrote:

Another person has already asked why Daemon Princes aren't Eternal Warrior, or Kharn and Lucius for that matter.

Because they die pretty easily and regularly.

VaneNeuro wrote:

On another note why is Lucius' sword just a power sword? Isn't it still the Blade of the Laer? I don't care if the daemon inside is gone. The sword killed Ferrus, it should be more than just strength user ap3.

Because the book that invented such a thing as a "Blade of Laer" was written 20 years after Lucius was invented.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:


Actually, pistols being overcosted gak applies to every single marine codex, and not unique to the spiky ones.

Pistols are overpriced in every codex that includes pistols. It's one of the few things the marines don't have a monopoly on.


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VaneNeuro wrote:
Why can Warp talons or Possessed champions get two gifts of mutation, I thought they were already mutated

Why do you think there's an end to mutation?

VaneNeuro wrote:

Another person has already asked why Daemon Princes aren't Eternal Warrior, or Kharn and Lucius for that matter.

Because they die pretty easily and regularly.

VaneNeuro wrote:

On another note why is Lucius' sword just a power sword? Isn't it still the Blade of the Laer? I don't care if the daemon inside is gone. The sword killed Ferrus, it should be more than just strength user ap3.

Because the book that invented such a thing as a "Blade of Laer" was written 20 years after Lucius was invented.

you mean back when his sword was AP2? you raise a good point that the lore has evolved past the game in some cases. it doesn't mean I have to like it, and it doesn't stop Lucius from being just an extra doom siren for 150+ points

Kharn and Lucius, maybe get killed, but they comes back to life each times.

And while Lucius enjoys the thrill of death, and die often because of this, Kharn as been killed only an handfull of times since the heresy and none of them where as grave as when he died durng the Siege of Terra.

But they give Lysander EW, because he was tortured a bit by Iron Warriors..., bs.

The Blade of Laer in my knownledge, was never in Lucius hands, its the weapon of Fulgrim, that made him fall into Chaos.

And Lucius never had a AP2 weapon, technically until 6th power weapons could be perceived as AP2 since they simply ignored armor, but still.

About options that doesn't make sens;

-Why a KDK Herald/DPrince cannot have a Axe of Khorne?
-Why KDK Axe of Khorne cost triple the price then Chaos Daemons Axe of Khorne?
-Why bother with summoning a FMC with the blood tithe, when the thing needs 3 turn before been able to assault?
-Why there is not a Blood tithe that lets units run+assault that turn is still a mysterie to me.
-WHy in the Nine layers of hell, didthey keep the Apoc points price of the Lord of Skulls..., its worse then a Knight, and cost more then double the points of one...

Dark eldar: Lelith's warlord trait. She's already ws 9; going to ws 10 is a waste of time as anything she might be attacking where that matters is already going to squish her.

Every option on Blood brides/wyches is a waste as the entire unit is worthless.

Pretty sure the original answer to this question as far as current codices are concerned was the Dark Apostle - who has Hatred, Fearless and Leadership 10 - being able to take Veterans of the Long War - which provides Hatred and +1 Leadership - at no additional cost despite it doing absolutely nothing. It's there as a fluff rule to determine whether it is a Legionnaire or a Renegade which is fair enough, but rules-wise its inclusion is utterly pointless.

 Deadshot wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Codex inquisition:

Inquisitorial weapons, the Plasma Pistol costs 15 points whilst the Plasma Gun costs 10.

+1 attack in CC and is assault weapon. Not really justifying the price but there is an advantage to the Pistol

I would agree, but Acolytes already have a Laspistol and CCW - and with their Guardsmans stat they do not like close combat!

In Renegades and Heretics (IA:13) there are more typos, rules mistakes and other WTF moments than there needs to be, but those are covered plenty all over.

Every renegade has the option to take auto weapons, or las weapons, just for kicks and giggles. I guess it is for true WYSIWYG purposes, or narrative reasoning. I mean, its awesome that it is in there, but it doesn't make sense that it needs to be specified. If I wanted to, I could have a unit of 10, half with lasguns, half with autoguns. Heck, I could have a unit of 12, 2 with autoguns, 2 with autopistols, 2 with lasguns, 2 with laspistols, 2 with shotguns and 2 with stubguns. All legal! I get it, I can mix and match, but really? There are 3 of the same pistol and 2 of the same rifle in that list!

 oldzoggy wrote:
Stick chucka's for ork transports.

It gives pasengers Stick bombz if they assault out of the transport, but they aleady have stick bombz all the time. Except for grots but nobody is assaulting with those.

Technically, it becomes a vehicle weapon, so, you can shoot a s3 ap- blast.

There's a named grot unit in red waaagh book that costs 40 pts instead of 35 pts. And gets nothing.

 Frozocrone wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
All ork vehicles may take Stikkbomb launchas.

Which give stikkbombs to any unit on the vehicle.

Except all ork models have stikkbombs.

It's also another weapon so it's not totally useless.

If you really want a WTF rule in the Ork Codex, Mad Dok has a Cybork body (FnP 6+) as well as Dok's Tools (FnP 5+ for himself and rest of unit)

Yeah basically that whole codex was just Kelly or whoever takin' the piss. The formations and revisions band-aid the army together to some degree but there's a palpable sense of incompetence throughout the whole thing.
You can literally go through the book picking out what parts were copied without being proofread, and which sections of fluff were written by different people who don't realize they're rephrazing something stated a paragraph ago.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Kharn and Lucius, maybe get killed, but they comes back to life each times.

And while Lucius enjoys the thrill of death, and die often because of this, Kharn as been killed only an handfull of times since the heresy and none of them where as grave as when he died durng the Siege of Terra.

But they give Lysander EW, because he was tortured a bit by Iron Warriors..., bs.

The Blade of Laer in my knownledge, was never in Lucius hands, its the weapon of Fulgrim, that made him fall into Chaos.

And Lucius never had a AP2 weapon, technically until 6th power weapons could be perceived as AP2 since they simply ignored armor, but still.

About options that doesn't make sens;

-Why a KDK Herald/DPrince cannot have a Axe of Khorne?
-Why KDK Axe of Khorne cost triple the price then Chaos Daemons Axe of Khorne?
-Why bother with summoning a FMC with the blood tithe, when the thing needs 3 turn before been able to assault?
-Why there is not a Blood tithe that lets units run+assault that turn is still a mysterie to me.
-WHy in the Nine layers of hell, didthey keep the Apoc points price of the Lord of Skulls..., its worse then a Knight, and cost more then double the points of one...

Possessed Fulgrim gives him the blade in ch. 25 of Fulgrim (2007) 5 years after he was introduced in 3rd edition.
My problem with Lucius speaks to a larger problem I see with the codex that KDK only exacerbated. Lucius, Slaanesh's greatest mortal champion and possibly best duelist in the galaxy gets punked by a regular terminator with a power sword let alone TH+SS and you can't build a Slaanesh Lord that fights better without losing that Initiative. Outside of noise marines, who are not good enough in today's meta, the mark of Slaanesh is only good for allowing the option of taking an overpriced feel no pain. Outside of Codex: Chaos Daemons there is no reasonable, competitive or tactical reason to take a Slaanesh unit.

The Blade of the Laer being strength user AP3 is a pet peeve. The fact that No Slaanesh champion can negate a 2+ without being Initiative 1 makes them effectively worthless and their inclusion in the codex makes no sense except for fluff reasons that the writers pick and choose anyway.

Seeing as the Blade of the Laer in HH is AP2 too..... It's also worse than his other weapon too. So it's quite pointless.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Seeing as the Blade of the Laer in HH is AP2 too..... It's also worse than his other weapon too. So it's quite pointless.

It doesn't have a Greater Daemon housed inside it when Lucius has it.

Isn't there a named Blood Angels IC that has the relentless special rule that comes with no heavy weapons or options to add heavy weapons.?

 Deadshot wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Seeing as the Blade of the Laer in HH is AP2 too..... It's also worse than his other weapon too. So it's quite pointless.

It doesn't have a Greater Daemon housed inside it when Lucius has it.

That's why the sword isn't rending like it was when Fulgrim had it. It was a dissapointment in HH and it's only worse in CSM

I know it's not technically a codex... but the Heavy Artillery Carriage Battery and Trojan in IA1 volume 2.

Basically the Heavy Artillery Carriage Battery has the Gun Carriage rule. The Fluff for the unit even describes Trojans towing them.... seeing Centaurs are too small to do so. However Torjans lack the Artillery Tractor rule.

Field Artillery can use both Trojans and Centaurs.... but lack the Gun Carriage rule.

This means despite the clear intentions, RAW you can't move either Carriages. Luckily many tournament rule edits fix this and usually if you ask your opponent they're more than happy to allow it.

Not that you'd want to move either...

 disdamn wrote:
Isn't there a named Blood Angels IC that has the relentless special rule that comes with no heavy weapons or options to add heavy weapons.?

Check what benefits 'Relentless' gives to models with Rapid Fire weapons.

 GoonBandito wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Experiment 626, read the relics text again. It only says "daemons that are able to take rewards" they do not need access to an exalted reward to take the new relics. So the exalted Alluress can take the whip.

The exact wording is "Demons of Slaanesh that have the option to take Exalted Rewards can also take a Hellforged Artefact of Slaanesh, paying the points shown below. These don't count towards the points spent on Demonic Rewards, but a model can't have more than one Hellforged Artefact (of any type). Only one of each of these items may be chosen per army."

So yes, RAW the Exalted Alluress cant take the Whips of Agony because she is only allowed to take Lesser and Greater rewards. However the intent of the rule is blindingly obvious (as the Exalted Alluress is the only model with permission to take the Whips of Agony in the first place) so I can't see anyone in their right mind not allowing it.

the exact wording is any daemon of slaanesh that can take daemonic rewards can take a hellforged artifact of slaanesh, the exalted alluress can take daemonic rewards

 Bobthehero wrote:
Not that you'd want to move either...

Well seeing the Medusa isn't a barrage weapon....

Always felt like you'd lost too much shooting while moving the thing around, might've missed the newer rules.

Tbh with only "36 range you may be forced to move the medusa, especially on larger boards.