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I'm pretty hopefully for my Slaaneshi Forces and Chaos in general.

NOISE MARINES:

- Well initiative is gone, but movement is now more important.
- a high movement value or re-rolls to charge maybe in the cards.
- That said Marks in AOS are just Keyword: Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, or Tzeentch; so we'll see.
- Hopefully we still have a FNP like ability, and some version of combat drugs.
- When we get our new model release I'd like: either Sonic Terminators, a Sonic Dreadnought, and some kind of melee elites like Palatine Blades or Phoenix Terminators

Blastmaster:

- Blast Templates no longer exist, they just require a 3+ to hit roll, and are either Heavy D3 or D6 similar to flamers
- Moving heavy weapons only causes you to suffer a -1 to hit instead of snap shots.
- Ignores Cover is still in and even more important than before as Cover grants a flat +1 to a models existing armor save.
- If we can still hit on a 4+ with a Heavy D3 or D6 I can't imagine any use for the alternate firing mode.
- Range: 48”/Heavy D6/S8/-2AP/DAM1/Ignores Cover.

Doom Siren:

- If it's essentially a boosted flamer.
- Range 8”/Assault D6/S5/-2AP/DAM1//Ignores Cover/Auto hits its target.

Sonic Blaster:

- For two editions they were unusable due to the Salvo rule their short range.
- Before that it was to expensive at 5 pts.
- Since tactical marines are Rapid Fire 1, I assume we'll get Rapid Fire 2 (3 shots at 12" range).
- But I would be happy with Assault 2, so we could shoot and charge again.
- Range: 24”/Rapid Fire 2/S4/0AP/DAM1/Ignores Cover.

Sonic Dreadnought:

- I'm not going to hold out hope that FW will coming out with updated rules.
- Which is fine, there have been plenty of occasions when there were no rules despite them still selling the model.
- I'll wait to see how the Sonic weapons shake out and just swap weapons profiles or proxy.
- Who am I kidding FW will probably release a contemptor version for 30K eventually.



SLAANESHI DAEMONS:

- Sounds like we'll be able to freely take Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons together again.
- I really hope they just port over the AOS stuff with a few changes.
- I doubt that they'll give any of the lesser Daemons better than the WS 3+ Marines now have despite bloodletters and daemonettes being WS5 currently.
- The 4+ to wound roll from AOS is better that the current 5+ to wound marines.
- Apparently, all wound rolls of 6 auto wound; but its doesn't ignore armor save.
- So hopefully rending still exists in some form.
- Since making rending claws a simple -1 armor modifier, at S3 won't cut it in 40K.
- And they can't have a -2 or -3 armor modifier on all their attacks cause that would be OP.
- I'll miss taking Greater Etherblades on all my characters for that lovely AP2/+1S though.

Daemonettes:

- AOS: 2 attacks/AP-1/Damage 1.
- Move 6", advance D6" and still charge in the same turn.
- Enemy's re-roll hit rolls of 6 when the unit is within 6" of a slaaneshi daemon character.
- They gain a bonus attack on hit rolls of 6 below 20 models and on a 5+ above.
- So lets see: vs marines hit on a 3+, wound on a 5+, and with AP-1 they save on 4+

Seekers:

- AOS the has 2 attacks like Daemonettes and 2 attacks from their mounts for four attacks total.
- In 40K they'll probably go with: 3 attacks/AP-1/Damage 1.
- Move 14", advance 2D6" and still charge in the same turn.
- +1" to charges within 12" of a slaaneshi daemon character.
- Gain a bonus attack on hit rolls of 6 below.

Chariots:

- These I'm excited for.
- Moves 12" and always advances 6".
- After is charges all enemy models within 1" or that huge base suffer a "mortal wound" on a 4+.
- The rider then gets bonus attacks on hit rolls of 6 as well.
- If you take exalted it causes D3 mortal wounds, and enemy units within 3" suffer +1 to their morale roll.

Fiends:

- Move 12", 4 wounds, S4, T4, SV5+
- 4 attacks at: Range 1"/S4/AP-/Damage 1, wound rolls of "6" count as AP-2.
- Maybe we'll finally get to attack with that stinger like in AOS.
- 1 attack at: Range 2"/S4/AP-1/Damage D3.
- In combat enemy units suffer -1 for and hit roll targeting the fiends.
- They re-roll hit rolls of "1" when the unit is within 6" of a slaaneshi daemon character.

Keeper:

- If AOS carries over move 14", 10 wounds, S6, T6, SV4+.
- 6 attacks at S6/AP-1/Damage 2, and 2 attacks at S6/AP-2/Damage D3; all attacks at 2" range.
- And she re-rolls all wound rolls of "1".
- Wow that would be beautiful, the Keeper man drawback has always been mobility and getting to combat.


The 8th editions looking pretty good so far.

@Sersi: It has been revealed that Slaaneshi Daemons will get Strikes First. If that ability is also available to Marked units via a hero's spell or ability, we could see some very interesting EC rushdown/deep insertion (ooer) plays.

choas need new models badly and they need to step away from the mutation thing a little on some of them as the current models are a mess and from i have seen of the new plague marines they look mince to much mutation rather than rot.

rule wise I think will work out but choas need a fleet of new units i think and hope. With the new marines coming for the imperial side it could make choas seem a little weak again.

I hope that they put the current imperial flyers in the choas book as well

I built 3 sorcerers on bikes for my Cyclopia Cabal. If I can not use them anymore as just plain old Sorcerers on bikes atleast then I will be a bit upset.

I'm trying to build a Death Guard army at the moment, for my 40th birthday week (with five mates) at Warhammer World - when I started it was going to be 7th, but then the rumours (and confirmation) of 8th hit.

So all six of us are in the same boat, with no idea about unit/weapon strengths (bar the 'it's all balanced, trust us' line...)

I was going to convert up a Lord and a Sorceror on bikes, but with the rumours of characters being unable to join units... :/

edit: I do have the benefit of having seven obliterators, so at least flexible shooting is a likely option...

On the plus, Hidden Powerfist is back (so my squad leaders having power swords / fists is useful). On the downside, it looks like stealth/shrouded are gone (to hit modifiers, maybe?) and now everyone's relentless, my autocannon havoc squad is less good. Although I'm hoping autocannons get a -1 AP buff, so...

Any other suggestions of how 8th might help/hinder?

Hmm. If heroes can't join units, I hope at the very least they can share a transport with them.

Did I read somewhere that shooting units are compelled to target the closest visible enemy unit? That worked pretty good in 4ed(?), when you could pass a Ld text to override, but that's oldhammer. I wonder how they'll balance heroes not being sniper-bait with firebase units having control of target priority.

There is already a thread discussing this but I thought I might update the Chaos Thread anyway:

Loving the new Rubrics by the way! That 2+ against single damage weapons and those nasty as hell flamers might make Rubrics quite tasty.

Also nice to see that Smite will be toned down for none character psychers, thought the Horror spam would be awful. D:

Not really, just a mortal wound from a squad per turn. I think it's ok.

 koooaei wrote:
Not really, just a mortal wound from a squad per turn. I think it's ok.

That's what I meant, before each squad would get d3/d6 mortal wounds per turn on a 30/50/90 pt squad (or whatever points they are now), now it isn't too bad.

If magic works like in AoS, each named spell can only be attempted per turn and every Chaos Psyker knows how to Summon every kind of Daemon. So that'll mean one unit of Rubricae gets to Smite away a wound - not really worth burning off a dispel attempt, so it's not going to contribute to an overwhelming psychic assault - and the others are just loci of Daemonic support.

Most exciting news is Combi-weapons not running out of ammunition and being able to fire both barrels at -1BS. Chosen, assuming same options as now, just got quite a boost.

...or did they?

Bolters have had a nerf, on balance. Almost everything is getting a save against them, but they wound T6/7 on a 5+ (still not an ideal target) and can scratch anything's paint.

Melta guns are so powerful, it seems unlikely to be worth four combi-gunners trading one hit for an extra four Bolter hits, especially against their intended targets.

With Rhinos having a save against small arms and chainswords, combi-weapons become even more interesting.

Plasma is tricky - if Gets Hot is still a thing, then there's a judgement to be made of getting some extra Bolter hits in before you kill yourself vs maximising your Plasma hits. We need more information on this.

Flamers might be a no-brainer - if they still auto-hit even if there's modifiers to hit, then an extra Bolter hit is great when engaging their intended targets.

And then of course there's Overwatch; if it can't get worse than 6 to hit, then combi-weapons will be quite handy - especially in the hands of a deep insertion gunner unit like Chosen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: I seriously hope Cultist options are priced more realistically. Adding 25% to the cost of a horde trooper for a rifle that'll barely scratch MEQs and when you close in will prevent you from charging (or halve your attacks when charged) is just... well, it's like paying 1pt for a 5ed Spinefist that actually lowered a Termagant's performance. Even the Heavy Stubber was overcosted IMO. And the worst thing was no multi-fit Cultist kit, instead we have to buy a box where half of them are armed with expensive tat and they're accompanied by a mono-pose Champion - again, with a bad loadout.

I play Word Bearers. Summoning now requires points. It wasn't even a "recursion" thing (such armies aren't good anyway) as much as an "attrition" thing. My army is functionally going to be unplayable now.

Way to go, GW. You managed to nerf one of the least plug-and-play Chaos armies out there. Got to sell those Death Guard and Rubrics somehow.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Way to go, GW. You managed to nerf one of the least plug-and-play Chaos armies out there. Got to sell those Death Guard and Rubrics somehow.

Although it does stop the most plug and play Chaos Daemon armies out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I play Word Bearers. Summoning now requires points. It wasn't even a "recursion" thing (such armies aren't good anyway) as much as an "attrition" thing. My army is functionally going to be unplayable now.

Although I must say it does blow for Word Bearers armies, maybe if a WB detachment can spend command points to summon above the allotted points or if summoned Daemons get free upgrades?

I'm getting ready by finishing up a squad of 10 Terminators for my expanding Black Legion collection. I hope I can get some competetive utility out of them.

Next up: A quad Lascannon squad of havocs. Another 3 Obliterators for a total of 9. Then on to 3 Defilers. Then 5 more Spawn. Then a batch of 20 more CSM. Order may change, but those are the biggies.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I play Word Bearers. Summoning now requires points. It wasn't even a "recursion" thing (such armies aren't good anyway) as much as an "attrition" thing. My army is functionally going to be unplayable now.

Way to go, GW. You managed to nerf one of the least plug-and-play Chaos armies out there. Got to sell those Death Guard and Rubrics somehow.

They're going to have to make some changes. They can all deepstrike anyway unless they change that, so summoning would be no different to deploying them normally via reserves.
Not even for csm as both share the chaos faction so could both be used to fill slots in the same CAD if I understand correctly.

The only advantage would be to summon turn one, like maybe on a prince or bike (otherwise you're better off waiting for turn 2) and not needing to roll for reserve I suppose.
I could see them putting the kibosh on summoning daemon for non chaos factions, but all of that seems like a consolidation prize.
It could be reasonable compared to non chaos factions, but other chaos factions vs word bearers would be quite silly.
The equivalent of the malefic tome would be summoning an additional unit pet turn I imagine. And slightly easier to cast summons for being WB. Seems pretty weak to me considering it's a very minor buff to reserve manipulation compared to other chaos factions.

More points to summon would be back to free points so I doubt we'll be seeing that. Curious to see what they'll do here.

It's looking like the main thing Summoning will offer is flexibility - tailor your use of Daemon budget to match your opponent and situation - and not paying any HQ & Troops tax when a bunch of Screamers or Flamers are a useful asset. Still not terrible, though possibly difficult to make work well.

 lindsay40k wrote:
It's looking like the main thing Summoning will offer is flexibility - tailor your use of Daemon budget to match your opponent and situation - and not paying any HQ & Troops tax when a bunch of Screamers or Flamers are a useful asset. Still not terrible, though possibly difficult to make work well.

Which...you were able to do before. Only now, you have to run your army as a near-null build (you know...like Black Legion or Night Lords do) rather than maximizing early game board presence with a tide of Cultists (you know...what Word Bearers), since points spent on Daemon summoning are points not spent on actual Chaos Marines...

At which point, why was I playing Word Bearers again instead of some Marine army that doesn't rely on summoning (you know, like Iron Warriors)? Oh yeah, because blasts got the nerf and Chaos does not have any reliable "rate of fire" shooting beyond Havocs (which incidentally, Death Guard does best). So Plague Autohavocs just got relatively better compared to everything else despite already being an autoinclude for Death Guard.

Aka, the most popular Legion is getting better while one with incredibly fringe benefits is getting a lot weaker. Aka, fan favoritism, aka why you don't crowdsource to a damn Footdar player.

Well we don't know what legion rules we are getting yet so how about we only pull out the soapbox once we have all the rules?

 mrhappyface wrote:
Well we don't know what legion rules we are getting yet so how about we only pull out the soapbox once we have all the rules?

"Possessed as Troops, more Dark Apostles." I seriously doubt there's going to be much variation beyond that. Let's not kid ourselves here.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Well we don't know what legion rules we are getting yet so how about we only pull out the soapbox once we have all the rules?

"Possessed as Troops, more Dark Apostles." I seriously doubt there's going to be much variation beyond that. Let's not kid ourselves here.

possiably some morale effecting rules too? one would think an army of religious fanatics would be more willing to embrace casualites

^ well, we know Dark Apostles will have an AOE Ld buff, which represents that pretty well, I've always wanted them to be a more attractive choice for my WBs than just taking Icons of Vengeance for a quarter of the price.

Some more 'sacrifice' options would be nice. Our cultists aren't just fodder for the *enemy* guns, something like 'kill D6 friendly models to roll 3D6 on a Summon spell and pick the best two' would encourage us to take characterful giant mobs.

I am currently focusing on finally painting my dark vengeance set after ages, I am painting them to be blood disciples and im making a good start, just finished the rhino I have been working on for ages yesterday and have painted 2 of my cutists (actaully good for my beginner fingers), if I manage to finish dark vengeance and my 20 extra cultists I wanna get some khorne beserkers (thinking of getting 1 berserker box and 1 CSM box to mix and match parts too look cool and be able to pass for CSM or beserkers lol).

I hope skarbrand and kharn get added to the kdk book. Or we find out why they were omitted

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
It's looking like the main thing Summoning will offer is flexibility - tailor your use of Daemon budget to match your opponent and situation - and not paying any HQ & Troops tax when a bunch of Screamers or Flamers are a useful asset. Still not terrible, though possibly difficult to make work well.

Which...you were able to do before. Only now, you have to run your army as a near-null build (you know...like Black Legion or Night Lords do) rather than maximizing early game board presence with a tide of Cultists (you know...what Word Bearers), since points spent on Daemon summoning are points not spent on actual Chaos Marines...

At which point, why was I playing Word Bearers again instead of some Marine army that doesn't rely on summoning (you know, like Iron Warriors)? Oh yeah, because blasts got the nerf and Chaos does not have any reliable "rate of fire" shooting beyond Havocs (which incidentally, Death Guard does best). So Plague Autohavocs just got relatively better compared to everything else despite already being an autoinclude for Death Guard.

Aka, the most popular Legion is getting better while one with incredibly fringe benefits is getting a lot weaker. Aka, fan favoritism, aka why you don't crowdsource to a damn Footdar player.

Play narrative games Narrative play likely won't have those restrictions. So you'll be able to use your fluff army how you want no problem.

Unless you're a bullgak cheesemonger that's butthurt because he actually has to use 2000pts in a 2000pt game now. In that case you are VERY deservedley SOL.

I've got some mark 3 armor, I'm considering painting em up as Iron warriors or black legion, but am gonna hold off till 8th launches.

Can daemons charge on the turn they're summoned in AoS? I'm just curious, because being able to do so in 40K might take some of the sting out the no free models thing, especially for WB.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I play Word Bearers. Summoning now requires points. It wasn't even a "recursion" thing (such armies aren't good anyway) as much as an "attrition" thing. My army is functionally going to be unplayable now.

Way to go, GW. You managed to nerf one of the least plug-and-play Chaos armies out there. Got to sell those Death Guard and Rubrics somehow.

Did you only get into 40K during 7th edition or are you just exaggerating here?

Mono Nurgle daemons here.

I'm not a fan of summoning, so that change doesn't really phase me. I have concerns over my Plague Hulk, but I can always run him as a Nurgle grinder. I will miss being able to SOC multiple units at a time.

The possibility of getting FNP back on Nurglings looks good, but I'm concerned that with the change to cover saves that Nurgle relies on in 7th, and the everything-wounds rules mean that my big beasties will die easier, even if they up the wounds.

I may branch out into plague marines as an expansion to my existing force.

I'm not rushing to judgment yet, but not entirely encouraged by what I've seen so far.

If your running nurgle you should be super excited, I am very certain that they are gonna make the nurgle faction (nurgle marines and daemons).

Do we know if cover improves invulnerable saves as well as armour? Could make Daemons in cover very nasty: Tzeentch Daemons with 4++ in +2 cover for a 2++, Nurgle Daemons with 5++ in +2 cover for 3++ AND 5+ ignore wounds.

^ seems highly unlikely, given that AP cuts through cover saves.