Claustrophobia 1643 Kickstarter by Monolith

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Monkeysloth**

intresting read. Here's the text to save people having to click a link.

The costs for 1 Claustrophobia box, based on 10k units production :

$5 for figurine molds

$2.5 for sculpture

$1.5 for illustrations

$20 for salaries (Monolith uses internal employees to work on the ks)

$26 for the print run (including $20 for the cardboard printing !)

$1 for transport by ship

$12 for VAT (it's an global average 15%)

$6 for royalties (8% of final price to the author)

$8 for ks (10%)

82$ production costs for a game that will be sold 79$.( it includes De Profundis content)

So it's not profitable... for the first print run. If the game is a success (the 10k boxes sold), they will be able to run a second kickstarter, and this time : the first 4 cost line disappear.

Mythic Battle : the second print run with $1,1M was way more profitable than the first one with $2,6M.

Print run

Once mold and scuplture are paid, figurines cost between $0.1 and $0.12 to produce. So with large print run, cardboard cost more than plastic. According to Frédéric, with only 25 tiles and twice more figurines, the game would be cheaper

Royalties

Interesting, Monolith wants to pay 2x the author compared to the other big ks compagnies(4% seems to be the norm), to attract the best authors in the long run.

Why Claustrophobia

Erwan, an other owner of Monolith is fan of Claustrophobia and they know very well the author Croc, the author. But Claustro was planned by FFG. Since they are all friends with Marc Nunès, co-founder of Asmodee, they used their influence to retrieve the game.

First edition of Claustrophobia : 10k sold in 6 months, and 20k in this entire life

**Absolutionis**

It's up!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/claustrophobia-1643

**Gallahad**

Hmm, I pledged but I'm a little underwhelmed by the art direction. I don't really get the subterranean tiki demon thing they have going on.

I'll probably end up dropping, since nothing is going to change!

**plessiez**

Around half the 200 Oceania pledges are already gone. I’ve backed for one since it’s a pledge-first ask questions later situation. Looks like it will sell out within the day.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

backing for now but I need to have a proper look at the rules to see if I can bodge a solo version i'll enjoy out of it, if not I'll drop

**Monkeysloth**

I backed but then realized it's just the core box and doesn't include the expansion that I believe opens up play for more then 2 players. It's a fun game but my group doesn't play 2 player only stuff. So I'm going to be dropping it.

You could play it solo but it will really just turn into who rolls the better dice as it's a pretty agressive game.

**ced1106**

It's essentially a reprint / revision of Claustrophobia, which has been OOP and has a following on BGG. Plenty of other boardgames out there to suit your (and my) taste.

**Triple9**

I have the original and both expansions. Going to have to think long and hard about whether to stay in until the end on this one.

**Mysterio**

I was initially excited for this - but now, after seeing it in 'reality'?

Not so much.

In now, but probably dropping out.

**Gallahad**

Mysterio wrote:
I was initially excited for this - but now, after seeing it in 'reality'?

Not so much.

In now, but probably dropping out.

I was in the same boat. I love the original and was very excited for this, but I just don't understand the art direction for this one. It just doesn't look like hell.

I dropped my pledge.

**Monkeysloth**

Interesting. Monolith just stated in the KSer comments that another company has the Conan license which is why they haven't done a Conan follow up but also says they might in a year which is different then what they were saying over the summer. Was saving up for round 2 of that.

**Azazelx**

Might it be that whole Monolith/Mythic thing?

**Monkeysloth**

No as Mythic wasn't around until after Conan as several including Leo were Monolith employees then. There's another Conan game that was announced not to long ago that was another stab at a skirmish game I believe (not the failed CROM game). Probably that one.

https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/shinobi7-conan-tabletop-new-games/

How Monolith let this slip is beyond me. Might also be that they still have the licenses for the boardgame but had to reschedule as to not conflict with that other KSer as Monolith seams pretty certain they'll be making more Conan.

Matthew, you know my sword arm is doing all it can to ensure Conan comes back. It's a special game for Monolith, so I think outlook is good

Edit: Think it's the latter as the same Monolith employee has stated on their forums the Shinobi7 license doesn't prevent them from making the boardgame, as it's for other types of games, and as of Oct 22 was talking about what they're looking at for updated rules to Conan in the next KSer.

**ced1106**

For all we know, Paradox Entertainment, who claims rights to the works of REH, may have separate licenses for a boardgame vs. a miniatures game. Remember that Pulpasaurous, which included Shane Hensley of Savage World's Pinnacle Entertainment Group, was on KS last year and ran a Conan miniatures game, although its funding was unsuccessful.

https://www.peginc.com/conan-rise-of-monsters-is-coming-to-kickstarter/

Here's a BGG thread about REH works in public domain. Essentially, works before 1964 are public domain. Whether or not it means you can make a Conan game without paying Paradox a licensing fee is up to, I guess, the courts. I figure that any company can *claim* such-and-such rights, but it's not until the courts make a decision whether or not that claim is justified. Until that point, it's no more than "he said, she said" and "better to pay Paradox a fee now, than to pay court fees later".

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1315650/reh-works-public-domain

Also, of course, if a KS project may be subject to an IP dispute, don't back it!

**Azazelx**

Well, credit to Monolith for allocating some stock, small as it was to Asia and Oceania. Luckily for me I happened to check my email at 7am before I went to work this morning and managed to get one of the 200 copies.

**JohnHwangDD**

Monkeysloth wrote:
82$ production costs for a game that will be sold 79$.

So it's not profitable... for the first print run. If the game is a success (the 10k boxes sold), they will be able to run a second kickstarter, and this time : the first 4 cost line disappear.

Mythic Battle : the second print run with $1,1M was way more profitable than the first one with $2,6M.

That's about right - breakeven on the initial run, and then make some real money on the second!

Kingdom Death : Monster lost money on the initial run, probably -10% or so, but the second run was vastly larger and significantly more profitable due to larger scale and development costs already paid for.
___

... wait, these are RESIN miniatures?

**TwilightSparkles**

$22 uk shipping, nope....essentially turns it into an £85-£80 game which, for what you get, is in line with boxgames of this type. If that's the KS price then a retail release would be dead in the water. Or on Amazon months after release at under£50 in an attempt to get anything back, like Conan.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Well Oceania and Asia's 200 copies are all sold,

about 1/2 of USA's and about 2/3 of Europe's 4800 so they seem to be doing well so far

but I guess the key is going to be how many drop out with no stretch goals to keep them interested

**Monkeysloth**

That's why it's such a short campaign.

Also, as to shipping costs, the box is 6.5kg which is heavier then Conan or Mythic Battles core boxes according to Monolith. That's about 15 pounds. Cardboard isn't just expensive to print.

**Col Hammer**

So, did they say anywhere if the figures are plastic?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

The same boardgame plastic as they've used for their other stuff as far as I know

**Col Hammer**

Mythic Battles: Pantheon had excellent plastics, so that is good enough for me.

**Monkeysloth**

ced1106 wrote:
For all we know, Paradox Entertainment, who claims rights to the works of REH, may have separate licenses for a boardgame vs. a miniatures game. Remember that Pulpasaurous, which included Shane Hensley of Savage World's Pinnacle Entertainment Group, was on KS last year and ran a Conan miniatures game, although its funding was unsuccessful.

https://www.peginc.com/conan-rise-of-monsters-is-coming-to-kickstarter/

Here's a BGG thread about REH works in public domain. Essentially, works before 1964 are public domain. Whether or not it means you can make a Conan game without paying Paradox a licensing fee is up to, I guess, the courts. I figure that any company can *claim* such-and-such rights, but it's not until the courts make a decision whether or not that claim is justified. Until that point, it's no more than "he said, she said" and "better to pay Paradox a fee now, than to pay court fees later".

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1315650/reh-works-public-domain

Also, of course, if a KS project may be subject to an IP dispute, don't back it!

The licensee is actually Cabinet Entertainment (formally known as Paradox). According to a Modiphius employee they set when the various license holders can run a KSer and release product so it's most likely Cabinet forced Monolith to push back their KSer as Shinobi was farther along with their skirmish game.

**Grot 6**

Helldorado added content was all I needed to hear.... I love that game, and was pretty miffed when it was thrown to the wolves like it was.

**JohnHwangDD**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The same boardgame plastic as they've used for their other stuff as far as I know

Wait, regular plastic? No stretch goals? for $100 shipped?

Yeah, I'm out.

**Monkeysloth**

Ya it's similar to Solomon Kane. The cost is all in the Non-miniature parts and there's much less minis then their previous KSers. You'd actually have to buy it for the game which I know is hard for some of us.

**Gallahad**

Monkeysloth wrote:
Ya it's similar to Solomon Kane. The cost is all in the Non-miniature parts and there's much less minis then their previous KSers. You'd actually have to buy it for the game which I know is hard for some of us.

Why pay money for a game I'll never play when I could pay money for a bucket of miniatures I'll never paint or use???

If you don't have the game, you really should consider this one. It is a great asymmetrical dungeon crawler.

**Col Hammer**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The same boardgame plastic as they've used for their other stuff as far as I know

Wait, regular plastic? No stretch goals? for $100 shipped?

Yeah, I'm out.

Stretch goals are meaningless entertainment anyway. In this kickstarter they are already included in the box right from the start.

**JohnHwangDD**

Col Hammer wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Wait, regular plastic? No stretch goals? for $100 shipped?

Yeah, I'm out.

Stretch goals are meaningless entertainment anyway. In this kickstarter they are already included in the box right from the start.

A grand total of 35 PVC minis for $100 is a pretty poor value per mini on KS, as can be seen from the cost breakdown - all of the production went into the cardboard. Without SGs to bump the value it's just not worth $100. For what little they're offering, this would have to be under $50 shipped.

With a true value of only $50, and a 2nd printing in the wings, I wouldn't even expect that I could get my money if the gameplay didn't deliver for me and my group.
____

Gallahad wrote:
If you don't have the game, you really should consider this one. It is a great asymmetrical dungeon crawler.

Hold on, ALL dungeon crawlers are asymmetrical, including Zombicide and Mice & Mystics. What makes this one "great"?

**ced1106**

> What makes this one "great"?

Here ya go! : https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/36932/claustrophobia/forums/63

If you still don't like it, definitely don't buy it. I don't see it as a dungeoncrawler, which is typically "one vs. many" or a coop. I see it as an asymmetrical two-player game. I have the base game and want more miniatures to not paint (: as well, so will skip out this one. Gonna buy me an Amazon HD Kindle Fire thing instead!