JSG wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth.

Whilst I generally really like the fluff resulting from the second edition's major fluff restructuring, there is is such thing as taking itself too seriously.

Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

I certainly agree with you (in fact, I agree very strongly!) about the importance of Imperium being in decline, and that Primarchs returning really undermine that theme in a serious way, things like jetbikes or grav tanks really do not bother me. Land Speeders have always existed, slightly smaller or bigger grav vehicles are not a big deal. As for Primaris, eh, they're just better looking Space Marines.

I think anyone who thinks the Primaris Marines udnermines the whole IoM in decline thing need to realize something...

Primaris Marines are proably too little too late. they won't save the IoM

They undermine it completely by existing. The IoM is supposed to be an empire in decline and stagnation. They have nothing new, they are rooted in the past and fighting to survive. A new army of brand new super guys with innovation and better gear is completely counter to it.That's before the mess of Primarchs comes in.

What you describe is a rogue traderesque parody, little better than obi wan sherlock clousseau.

Skaorn wrote:
I personally hope that GW keeps up with the Wolf stuff and stops butchering Vikings. "Odin" Russ ugh. What you're really asking for is Thor at the end of Thor: Ragnarok.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I wanna see what happens in the fluff when both Russ and the Lion come back (probably not at the same time), and they meet each other for the first time since they disappeared...

"wait are you fethers STILL fighting honor duels everytime you meet the other guys?!"

Justyn wrote:

"wait are you fethers STILL fighting honor duels everytime you meet the other guys?!"

Given how much every thing else has regressed in 10000 years. They will probably just laugh that one off over a beer.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Not looking forward to Russ and TWC stupidity in every Imperial army from now until forever. And you know he will have exactly 9 wounds (with a LOS to fenrisian wolves or something) and can auto kill a Magnus or Morty just because.

I'm actually expecting him to have daemon primarch stats with the explanation that he's been running around buck-naked in the warp for so long that it's mutated him.

Justyn wrote:

I'm actually expecting him to have daemon primarch stats with the explanation that he's been running around buck-naked in the warp for so long that it's mutated him.

Please no. The SW are already enough of a joke faction with the Wolf Wolf McMurder Wolf Wolfy Wolf Wolves.

Justyn wrote:

"wait are you fethers STILL fighting honor duels everytime you meet the other guys?!"

Given how much every thing else has regressed in 10000 years. They will probably just laugh that one off over a beer.

Heafstaag wrote:

Justyn wrote:

I'm actually expecting him to have daemon primarch stats with the explanation that he's been running around buck-naked in the warp for so long that it's mutated him.

Please no. The SW are already enough of a joke faction with the Wolf Wolf McMurder Wolf Wolfy Wolf Wolves.

They are a joke because of wargear names?

Really? People are still on that? The blood angels were all blood this and blood that for a time, as well.

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

It goes a fair bit beyond that.

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

It goes a fair bit beyond that.

In fairness Logan is viking as much as wolf there. a liiitle bit more viking over all would be appreciated. and Murderfang in hindsight was clearly intended to foreshadow the wulfen. people got so hung up on the name they missed that though

Justyn wrote:
Things become Cliche' because they appeal. Subverting expectations is great when done well. But when done wrong we get a giant pile of crap. This tends to happen far far more often than not. I'll take Ragnarok Thor over Episode 9 Luke every day of the week every time.

 Grimtuff wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

It goes a fair bit beyond that.

In fairness Logan is viking as much as wolf there. a liiitle bit more viking over all would be appreciated. and Murderfang in hindsight was clearly intended to foreshadow the wulfen. people got so hung up on the name they missed that though

Sorry, I've gotta side with Calgar's bro here- Murderfang is daft in concept and execution. He's armed with Murderclaws, that's strike one. They found him on a planet called Omnicide. Strike two. Both of these I can kinda live with in the silliness of 40k, but the bit that really grinds my gears is the bare head- which sets the precedent for all SM Dreads "heads" being the actual head of the pilot and they're just wearing a helmet. Um, no. They're buried deep in the chassis and the head is just decorative. Bare headed Dreadnoughts are the single stupidest thing SW have given us, and this is coming from someone who loves TWC.

What're the odds on us finally seeing an updated Ragnar, do you think? All the other classic SW characters have had a resculpt, leaving Mr Blackmane out in the cold.

 Galas wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

It goes a fair bit beyond that.

In fairness Logan is viking as much as wolf there. a liiitle bit more viking over all would be appreciated. and Murderfang in hindsight was clearly intended to foreshadow the wulfen. people got so hung up on the name they missed that though

Sorry, I've gotta side with Calgar's bro here- Murderfang is daft in concept and execution. He's armed with Murderclaws, that's strike one. They found him on a planet called Omnicide. Strike two. Both of these I can kinda live with in the silliness of 40k, but the bit that really grinds my gears is the bare head- which sets the precedent for all SM Dreads "heads" being the actual head of the pilot and they're just wearing a helmet. Um, no. They're buried deep in the chassis and the head is just decorative. Bare headed Dreadnoughts are the single stupidest thing SW have given us, and this is coming from someone who loves TWC.

And what about hellbrutes? I always assumed some dreads are too damaged and the marine is on the tomb, and others have the head with a helmet.
But I agree, both helmeted and bare head dreadnoughts look stupid.

 Fayric wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

It goes a fair bit beyond that.

In fairness Logan is viking as much as wolf there. a liiitle bit more viking over all would be appreciated. and Murderfang in hindsight was clearly intended to foreshadow the wulfen. people got so hung up on the name they missed that though

Sorry, I've gotta side with Calgar's bro here- Murderfang is daft in concept and execution. He's armed with Murderclaws, that's strike one. They found him on a planet called Omnicide. Strike two. Both of these I can kinda live with in the silliness of 40k, but the bit that really grinds my gears is the bare head- which sets the precedent for all SM Dreads "heads" being the actual head of the pilot and they're just wearing a helmet. Um, no. They're buried deep in the chassis and the head is just decorative. Bare headed Dreadnoughts are the single stupidest thing SW have given us, and this is coming from someone who loves TWC.

And what about hellbrutes? I always assumed some dreads are too damaged and the marine is on the tomb, and others have the head with a helmet.
But I agree, both helmeted and bare head dreadnoughts look stupid.

The Dreadnought concept has clearly gone from beeing sanctified servitor war machines to become dynamic robotic suits for damaged marines. Because people wanted them to be more dynamic and built them like that. Same thing with eldar wraith constucts -used to be staggering mumy tomb warriors that could fall asleep, now dynamic dual sword weilding monsters.

 Thanatos73 wrote:
Wasn’t there a short story or novel of a young Blood Claw wandering the Fang shortly after the Heresy and finding Russ? He was older and wiser and talked to the young pup for a bit.
It was right before he left.

I vaguely remember this story but can’t rememver where.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
HERE. COMES. RUSS!!!!!!!

It makes sense to delay the Space Wolves Codex for the introduction of Russ. Finally the Imperials receive a second primarch, making it 2 for 2 in the primarchs department.

 Galas wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
They are a joke because of wargear names?

It goes a fair bit beyond that.

In fairness Logan is viking as much as wolf there. a liiitle bit more viking over all would be appreciated. and Murderfang in hindsight was clearly intended to foreshadow the wulfen. people got so hung up on the name they missed that though

Sorry, I've gotta side with Calgar's bro here- Murderfang is daft in concept and execution. He's armed with Murderclaws, that's strike one. They found him on a planet called Omnicide. Strike two. Both of these I can kinda live with in the silliness of 40k, but the bit that really grinds my gears is the bare head- which sets the precedent for all SM Dreads "heads" being the actual head of the pilot and they're just wearing a helmet. Um, no. They're buried deep in the chassis and the head is just decorative. Bare headed Dreadnoughts are the single stupidest thing SW have given us, and this is coming from someone who loves TWC.

And what about hellbrutes? I always assumed some dreads are too damaged and the marine is on the tomb, and others have the head with a helmet.
But I agree, both helmeted and bare head dreadnoughts look stupid.

pm713 wrote:

 Thanatos73 wrote:
Wasn’t there a short story or novel of a young Blood Claw wandering the Fang shortly after the Heresy and finding Russ? He was older and wiser and talked to the young pup for a bit.
It was right before he left.

I vaguely remember this story but can’t rememver where.

I'm 90% sure that's the Leman Russ novel. He basically tells a story of how he nicked a Dark Angels sword to stab the Lion IIRC. I thought Russ mainly wanted to chat with the Claw because he was the first Chapter Wolf rather than a Legionary.