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 Crimson wrote:

 Ssgt Carl wrote:

pm713 wrote:
For the first time in my life I really really REALLY want my army to have nothing new. I just want the army to not get stupider.

Agreed. I’m in great fear of some sort of werewolf primarch monster nonsense

The only way the return of Russ would not be similarly super lame like the return of Guilliman was, if he would return as some sort of disgusting mutated monster, gripping to his last and rapidly diminishing shreds of sanity.

Interesting how different our points of view are. I feel exactly the opposite

Justyn wrote:

I would be very surprised if we do not see a new Long Fang Primaris Agressors kit rocking a Helfrost weapon of some kind.

GW'd that for you.

For future reference, "fixed that for you" style of posts are not looked upon kindly here.

Additionally, the only thing that factions have received as Primaris specific kits has been the Lieutenants. The other kits are just the Primaris stuff with upgrade frames.

Yeah, probably. Whilst I don't want loyalist Primarchs being brought back at all, I really don't think there is any point in doing so if you're just basically porting their HH versions into 40K. 40K versions need to be different and preferably grimdarkified so that they won't bring any unneeded excess hope. This is why Daemon Primarchs work, they're radically different from their HH versions. Though I understand that some people are very attached to these characters and don't want them to be changed. But that is why it probably is the best if they just stay in HH where they belong.

Staying in HH I can agree with. Sadly the floodgates are open.

Hopefully the next edition they will fix the issues everyone has with the Primaris integration into the space marines.

I posted on another thread but hopefully the wolves will have grey hunter intercessors instead of this tacked on unit charts.

Actually I hope they make them all start as Blood Claws. "Where is your chainsword?", "You don't have one...., Give me that Bolter, Here is your chainsword, come back in 100 years when you have learned to use it properly."

To be honest I just can't stand Primaris. The basic and Hellblaster models look great. The rest of them look like crap. The squads are all stupidly bland. No Options no flavor. It really is what some people have said about Marines for years. they are just painted different colors.

For future reference, "fixed that for you" style of posts are not looked upon kindly here.

Thanks for that info I guess. Now just out of curiosity is it you specifically that doesn't look kindly upon it. Because in my years of reading these forums no one else has ever mentioning that in any post I've read. While I don't tend to post a lot, I do read them very regularly. And I wonder why it is so inconvenient to you that you needed to mention it.

Actually I hope they make them all start as Blood Claws. "Where is your chainsword?", "You don't have one...., Give me that Bolter, Here is your chainsword, come back in 100 years when you have learned to use it properly."

As I noted this isn't likely because Primaris Marines aren't exactly freshly decanted newbies. by time they link up with the Space Wolves they've been fighting awhile. Especially as Gulliman is a smart guy (like him or not, he's a primarch give him credit) he'll know how important making sure Primaris Marines have a solid record they can brag about when they first meet the wolves. What kinda thing might a Primaris Marine say upon meeting? Lemme try and craft a possiability. "My name is Ragnarr, I was born on Fenris when the Space Wolves where a Legion, I'm older then you pup, far far older, I REMEMBER the Primarch, I was selected to become part of the Primaris Marine project due to my high scores, and spent centuries training and testing, when Gulliman returned I was at the forefront of the force he deployed to Terra to defend it from deamons, have you ever been to Terra runt? Following that, I traveling as part of the Indomatius crusade, fighting along side a Primarch whom is now lord commander of the Imperium once more, bringing countless Imperial worlds back into the fold, finally I was permitted to return home to aide my Brethren in the Rout... so what have you done Pup?"


Basicly my point is that the Space Wolf Primaris Marines aren't complete rookies, they'll have combat experiance, and Gulliman is smart eneugh to make sure that they've something to brag about before returning to Fenris.

I would like another Imperial Primarch. And while I would like Russ to be different from his 30k self, I don't really want him to be a giant werewolf either. Grizzled, hairier, different armor (possibly stripped down a little) is what I'd expect to see. Compared to RG I'd expect him to be a little less buff-master, and a little more beat stick.


As for Primaris Bikers, Neat, I guess. I'm not totally psyched about it, but I do like that they are expanding the Primaris line. If they are jetbikes I hope they are shooty, and significantly cheaper than the Custodes bikes.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I would like another Imperial Primarch. And while I would like Russ to be different from his 30k self, I don't really want him to be a giant werewolf either. Grizzled, hairier, different armor (possibly stripped down a little) is what I'd expect to see. Compared to RG I'd expect him to be a little less buff-master, and a little more beat stick.


As for Primaris Bikers, Neat, I guess. I'm not totally psyched about it, but I do like that they are expanding the Primaris line. If they are jetbikes I hope they are shooty, and significantly cheaper than the Custodes bikes.

I always saw him returning more like an Odin like character, his eye gone (the opposite eye of Magnus's) And wiser character from his experience, not the boy king we are so familiar with. It wouldn't make sense for him to be a crazed werewolf, but a methodical thinker and warrior. All decked out like a Viking King of Old, his armor tattered by thousands of years in the warp fighting with his 13th company. His eye long since plucked out by his brother magnus the red. And his journey to find the fruit of eternity so that he may revive the emperor. Only to realize it never existed, and that his Father would want him to return. Returning with his non-wulfen 13th company members to find his people scattered and his Fenris Destroyed. Hopefully turning into the Man the Emperor thought he might be.

It would be amazing character development and would allow GW to have two seperate versions of Leman Russ, one as a youth, a blonde hair wild eye (or was he red headed?!) and now a wisened old man whose lost much due to time.

But my money for an imperial Primarch would be the Khan.

A Primaris Biker should be fun be we still need our close combat unit of primaris that use chainswords or a Terminator-like unit for primaris. While also making them less of an 'upgrade' or 'superior' to regular space marines, but oh well.

I am more excited for the lore expansion and hopeful for a continuation of ashes of prospero.

They gave a major hint at Russ way back before the galaxy exploded, when Magnus was sacking Fenris. He popped out to chat with Ragnar.

I think he would make a solid next imperial primarch. But I also don’t see him just shoe horned in without a campaign or other significant event.

stormboy wrote:
They gave a major hint at Russ way back before the galaxy exploded, when Magnus was sacking Fenris. He popped out to chat with Ragnar.

I think he would make a solid next imperial primarch. But I also don’t see him just shoe horned in without a campaign or other significant event.

Probably and they hopefully won't just make him a werewolf :/

 Asherian Command wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I would like another Imperial Primarch. And while I would like Russ to be different from his 30k self, I don't really want him to be a giant werewolf either. Grizzled, hairier, different armor (possibly stripped down a little) is what I'd expect to see. Compared to RG I'd expect him to be a little less buff-master, and a little more beat stick.


As for Primaris Bikers, Neat, I guess. I'm not totally psyched about it, but I do like that they are expanding the Primaris line. If they are jetbikes I hope they are shooty, and significantly cheaper than the Custodes bikes.

I always saw him returning more like an Odin like character, his eye gone (the opposite eye of Magnus's) And wiser character from his experience, not the boy king we are so familiar with. It wouldn't make sense for him to be a crazed werewolf, but a methodical thinker and warrior. All decked out like a Viking King of Old, his armor tattered by thousands of years in the warp fighting with his 13th company. His eye long since plucked out by his brother magnus the red. And his journey to find the fruit of eternity so that he may revive the emperor. Only to realize it never existed, and that his Father would want him to return. Returning with his non-wulfen 13th company members to find his people scattered and his Fenris Destroyed. Hopefully turning into the Man the Emperor thought he might be.

It would be amazing character development and would allow GW to have two seperate versions of Leman Russ, one as a youth, a blonde hair wild eye (or was he red headed?!) and now a wisened old man whose lost much due to time.

.

I do love your vision of Russ. While I agree that seeing him as an older man with much of the intemperance of his youth long since contained, he should still be more of a combat monster than RG. Not saying he can't be a support character too, just on a slightly lower scale than RG. I think I'd also give him a better movement value than RG, not much, just a tad.

 cuda1179 wrote:


I do love your vision of Russ. While I agree that seeing him as an older man with much of the intemperance of his youth long since contained, he should still be more of a combat monster than RG. Not saying he can't be a support character too, just on a slightly lower scale than RG. I think I'd also give him a better movement value than RG, not much, just a tad.

Thank you, i just love my space wolves (even though I don't even play them!) ever since I read the Emperor's Gift they have been my favorite faction in the Imperium. As they didn't even lift a finger till someone decided to shoot at them.

But yes I think he still can but be wisened while wielding a Gundrak like weapon.

I do think him becoming a more talented psyker would be alot better and more inline with his character (while also kind of making him a hypocrite :B)

 Asherian Command wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:


I do love your vision of Russ. While I agree that seeing him as an older man with much of the intemperance of his youth long since contained, he should still be more of a combat monster than RG. Not saying he can't be a support character too, just on a slightly lower scale than RG. I think I'd also give him a better movement value than RG, not much, just a tad.

Thank you, i just love my space wolves (even though I don't even play them!) ever since I read the Emperor's Gift they have been my favorite faction in the Imperium. As they didn't even lift a finger till someone decided to shoot at them.

But yes I think he still can but be wisened while wielding a Gundrak like weapon.

I do think him becoming a more talented psyker would be alot better and more inline with his character (while also kind of making him a hypocrite :B)

Was he ever a psycher before?

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:


I do love your vision of Russ. While I agree that seeing him as an older man with much of the intemperance of his youth long since contained, he should still be more of a combat monster than RG. Not saying he can't be a support character too, just on a slightly lower scale than RG. I think I'd also give him a better movement value than RG, not much, just a tad.

Thank you, i just love my space wolves (even though I don't even play them!) ever since I read the Emperor's Gift they have been my favorite faction in the Imperium. As they didn't even lift a finger till someone decided to shoot at them.

But yes I think he still can but be wisened while wielding a Gundrak like weapon.

I do think him becoming a more talented psyker would be alot better and more inline with his character (while also kind of making him a hypocrite :B)

Was he ever a psycher before?

Yes he was all the Primarchs are.

Read the latest horus heresy books or lexi to see he did infact have psychic powers, its why the thousand sons could sense him coming through the warp. He was terrifying.

I like the idea of an older "Odinesque" version of Russ, they could package him as "Lemen Russ, the Old King" heck they could even keep the werewolf aspect and make it a transformation that can happen in battle, and give us two minis, ala Morathi from AOS.

heck they could even keep the werewolf aspect and make it a transformation that can happen in battle, and give us two minis, ala Morathi from AOS

Please no. Conceptually I hate beast Russ. On top of that GWs werewolf miniatures are god awful, looking like ballerinas from planet of the apes.

Justyn wrote:

heck they could even keep the werewolf aspect and make it a transformation that can happen in battle, and give us two minis, ala Morathi from AOS

Please no. Conceptually I hate beast Russ. On top of that GWs werewolf miniatures are god awful, looking like ballerinas from planet of the apes.

Yeah I rather just have... you know.... Guys that look like space marines.... Not erm whatever we got in 7th edition




God these things were horrifying bad.

I miss these doofuses

Yeah I thought the old ones were really bad, until they released the new ones.

The August white dwarf , in the next month section hints "A war of Vengeance" . It must be 40k related cause we already had plenty of sigmar and special board games.
Also it ties up with Russ returning and declaring a war of vengeance after seeing what happened on Fenris. A man can only hope

 lonewolf81 wrote:
The August white dwarf , in the next month section hints "A war of Vengeance" . It must be 40k related cause we already had plenty of sigmar and special board games already.
Also it ties up with Russ returning and declaring a war of vengeance after seeing what happened on Fenris. A man can only hope

Source?!? I mean you say the white dwarf from august.

Source?!? I mean you say the white dwarf from august.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Justyn wrote:

heck they could even keep the werewolf aspect and make it a transformation that can happen in battle, and give us two minis, ala Morathi from AOS

Please no. Conceptually I hate beast Russ. On top of that GWs werewolf miniatures are god awful, looking like ballerinas from planet of the apes.

Yeah I rather just have... you know.... Guys that look like space marines.... Not erm whatever we got in 7th edition




God these things were horrifying bad.

I miss these doofuses

Those 13th company models came out just as i left the hobby, absolutely one of the coolest most interesting kits GW have put out. When i came back to the hobby last year i was a little shocked how stupid and in your face they'd gone with space wolves. They truly are a ruined faction for me.

Process wrote:
Those 13th company models came out just as i left the hobby, absolutely one of the coolest most interesting kits GW have put out. When i came back to the hobby last year i was a little shocked how stupid and in your face they'd gone with space wolves. They truly are a ruined faction for me.

Space Wolves are the single best example of Flanderization in 40K.

Im so glad I've still got a box of Wulfen unopened, with arms from another box. Mixing them with Primaris kits makes them look closer to the old models. I absolutely adored the old models, their artwork was so brutal I wish we got something more akin to that. The way they are just tearing the enemy apart and throwing them about, loved it.

Still though even with the Primaris kits, it feels like there's something missing and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe its the heads. The new ones look so stupid, I wish we just got the old models in an updated form, they were perfect.

Looking forward to this though, always loved the Wolves, seen someone's work on some Space Wolf Reivers and they gave them Dispossesed axes and they looked amazing, never even thought of that.

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


There's a reason 40K moved on from Rogue Trader, sadly the people working at GW seem to have forgotten that.

Rogue Trader was awesome. The new fluff is obviously dumb as feth, but I'm just going to ignore it and enjoy the great new models instead.

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth. Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

Its really hard to fit most beards in a primaris armour, so some gritty primaris heads with wild hair, and a primaris unit with chain swords would pretty much keep me satisfied.

A plastic wolf priest or even rune priest would also be nice, and about time.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth.

Whilst I generally really like the fluff resulting from the second edition's major fluff restructuring, there is is such thing as taking itself too seriously.

Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

I certainly agree with you (in fact, I agree very strongly!) about the importance of Imperium being in decline, and that Primarchs returning really undermine that theme in a serious way, things like jetbikes or grav tanks really do not bother me. Land Speeders have always existed, slightly smaller or bigger grav vehicles are not a big deal. As for Primaris, eh, they're just better looking Space Marines.

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth.

Whilst I generally really like the fluff resulting from the second edition's major fluff restructuring, there is is such thing as taking itself too seriously.

Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

I certainly agree with you (in fact, I agree very strongly!) about the importance of Imperium being in decline, and that Primarchs returning really undermine that theme in a serious way, things like jetbikes or grav tanks really do not bother me. Land Speeders have always existed, slightly smaller or bigger grav vehicles are not a big deal. As for Primaris, eh, they're just better looking Space Marines.

I think anyone who thinks the Primaris Marines udnermines the whole IoM in decline thing need to realize something...

Primaris Marines are proably too little too late. they won't save the IoM

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth.

Whilst I generally really like the fluff resulting from the second edition's major fluff restructuring, there is is such thing as taking itself too seriously.

Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

I certainly agree with you (in fact, I agree very strongly!) about the importance of Imperium being in decline, and that Primarchs returning really undermine that theme in a serious way, things like jetbikes or grav tanks really do not bother me. Land Speeders have always existed, slightly smaller or bigger grav vehicles are not a big deal. As for Primaris, eh, they're just better looking Space Marines.

I think anyone who thinks the Primaris Marines udnermines the whole IoM in decline thing need to realize something...

Primaris Marines are proably too little too late. they won't save the IoM

They undermine it completely by existing. The IoM is supposed to be an empire in decline and stagnation. They have nothing new, they are rooted in the past and fighting to survive. A new army of brand new super guys with innovation and better gear is completely counter to it.That's before the mess of Primarchs comes in.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth.

Whilst I generally really like the fluff resulting from the second edition's major fluff restructuring, there is is such thing as taking itself too seriously.

Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

I certainly agree with you (in fact, I agree very strongly!) about the importance of Imperium being in decline, and that Primarchs returning really undermine that theme in a serious way, things like jetbikes or grav tanks really do not bother me. Land Speeders have always existed, slightly smaller or bigger grav vehicles are not a big deal. As for Primaris, eh, they're just better looking Space Marines.

I think anyone who thinks the Primaris Marines udnermines the whole IoM in decline thing need to realize something...

Primaris Marines are proably too little too late. they won't save the IoM

They undermine it completely by existing. The IoM is supposed to be an empire in decline and stagnation. They have nothing new, they are rooted in the past and fighting to survive. A new army of brand new super guys with innovation and better gear is completely counter to it.That's before the mess of Primarchs comes in.

An empire in decline that NEVER produces ANYTHING new sounds great on paper, but when you gotta sell new models, you suddenly realize it's got a giant flaw to it.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Rogue Trader was a product of the time, when anything nerdy had to be drenched in OTT "metal" stuff and enjoyed ironically in order to be considered acceptable. 40K grew up and "took itself seriously" because the culture moved on and people were comfortable admitting "no, actually, I genuinely enjoy this stuff", but alas along with its creators appears to have hit the midlife crisis stage and is grasping in vain to recapture its youth.

Whilst I generally really like the fluff resulting from the second edition's major fluff restructuring, there is is such thing as taking itself too seriously.

Now as you say, the new fluff can just be ignored(to an extent), but the issue for me is every time they do stuff like this, it's stuff I can't use if I do ignore the new fluff. The 40K I like and enjoy is the one where the Imperium is poised on the brink of catastrophe, in terminal decline socially and technologically, and stuff like Land Speeders are considered rare and miraculous even among the Imperium's elite, so while I can write my own more appropriate background material for something like the Redemptor, there's no place in it for Cawly Sue Marines riding jetbikes, or Primarchs. Obviously I can just ignore model releases I don't care for as well, but I'd much rather they were releasing things I do want to buy like a new version of the big chunky ground bike.

I certainly agree with you (in fact, I agree very strongly!) about the importance of Imperium being in decline, and that Primarchs returning really undermine that theme in a serious way, things like jetbikes or grav tanks really do not bother me. Land Speeders have always existed, slightly smaller or bigger grav vehicles are not a big deal. As for Primaris, eh, they're just better looking Space Marines.

I think anyone who thinks the Primaris Marines udnermines the whole IoM in decline thing need to realize something...

Primaris Marines are proably too little too late. they won't save the IoM

They undermine it completely by existing. The IoM is supposed to be an empire in decline and stagnation. They have nothing new, they are rooted in the past and fighting to survive. A new army of brand new super guys with innovation and better gear is completely counter to it.That's before the mess of Primarchs comes in.

What you describe is a rogue traderesque parody, little better than obi wan sherlock clousseau.

Justyn wrote:
Yeah I thought the old ones were really bad, until they released the new ones.

2003- Those Wulfen are awful. They look like Michael Jackson in Thriller.

2015- Man wish we had those old metal Wulfen, the jorts wearing ones are gak.