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The scene is pretty much a line for line take of the associated sequence in the first book. It is however missing a good bit of context, and the last 2/3rds of the actual series of events, which is why it feels a bit awkward.
warboss wrote: I'm not very familiar with the source material (as a dnd here and general fantasy can I'm aware of it but never read it) so I don't know how close this is to the novels but a new trailer dropped.
As an outsider looking in, this feels more like a high budget CW/Shannara style show from that clip than LOTR/GOT in terms of style, asthetics, lighting, and direction. That's not a great first impression. I hope Amazon's LOTR prequel is a better first impression.
For Brits here in the forum, are any of those actors from the UK? No sarcasm intended but the accents sound off to me.
The lead actress is British, Rosamund Pike. She’s known for Gone Girl and Die Another Day among other stuff. I don’t recognise anyone else.
I really hope they set their sights higher than "cheap SyFY channel series" even if that's all we end up with. Given the money involved I'd like to see a little more ambition than that cheesy pile.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
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Well, I mean... the first book does start that way, and the whole of it is mostly generic fantasy fare, for the most part. For me, the series didn't come on its own until later, but I really enjoyed the middle books.
IMHO, it would be best if they fast forward as much as they can through the first book at least.
As to the actual quality of what's shown... well, if feels kinda renfaire, TBH.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/09 19:48:41
I really hope they set their sights higher than "cheap SyFY channel series" even if that's all we end up with. Given the money involved I'd like to see a little more ambition than that cheesy pile.
Each to their own.....
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
As to the actual quality of what's shown... well, if feels kinda renfaire, TBH.
On a related note, do they have those (renfaires) in Europe? I always considered that to be a kitschy American thing. I've seen medieval/ancient reenactments of battles and such but when you have real castles, battle sites, and armor/weapons I never considered the desire for the cheap knockoff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've been trying to put into words part of why I'm not a fan of that scene (besides the male actor accents which feel off but i may be totally wrong there) and the best I can come up with is that it feels like a set. The kind of fake location someone puts together over the course of a day and says good enough whereas LOTR/GOT had a grimey lived in feeling. This is like the d&d movie with the Waynes brother and not the more carefully crafted Fellowship of the Ring that came out just a year later.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/09 21:42:53
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
Lets hope it better than the Witcher....especially the costumes, weapons and armour....and plot....
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I thought the Witcher was terrible. My 16 year old son loved it though.
I find the ethic mix of the 2 rivers folk a bit distracting even though in the setting it is reasonable. I imagined Lan to be less East Asian and more central Asian looking and bigger.
Something about the costumes looks off to me? Maybe they do not look hardy enough of something, or too much like modern casual wear? I cannot decide.
Ethnic diversity is here to stay and most of the time its easier in fantasy than some other generes.
I thought Shadow and Bone, the Outpost and Shanara did this element this well.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
As to the actual quality of what's shown... well, if feels kinda renfaire, TBH.
On a related note, do they have those (renfaires) in Europe? I always considered that to be a kitschy American thing. I've seen medieval/ancient reenactments of battles and such but when you have real castles, battle sites, and armor/weapons I never considered the desire for the cheap knockoff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've been trying to put into words part of why I'm not a fan of that scene (besides the male actor accents which feel off but i may be totally wrong there) and the best I can come up with is that it feels like a set. The kind of fake location someone puts together over the course of a day and says good enough whereas LOTR/GOT had a grimey lived in feeling. This is like the d&d movie with the Waynes brother and not the more carefully crafted Fellowship of the Ring that came out just a year later.
Well, we have reenactments and what over here is called "medieval markets", but well, those are set in medieval locations, so...
And we still do have very decent classic metalworkers over here (hell, Toledo is still famous for that), so it's relatively easy to get the good stuff. Some even still do the five tests on swords and everything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 10:17:52
I am interested to watch this. I remember reading this series as a kid and coming back later to read a few when Brandon Sanderson took over after the main authors passing.
I found the world super interesting and it was on the whole an enjoyable series, but it did drag on a bit and had to many story lines. I remember skipping over entire chapters of characters I hated during the mid books.
If they are going to make a TV series from books from when I was a kid, I would like them to do David Eddings groups of novels. Granted I haven't read his books since the 80's and 90's but as a child they held me in thrall (maybe re-read now and not as much, or maybe more, but I don't want to dispel the illusion... ). However, I still remember today snipits of the books etc and consider that a source of my modern inspiration.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/10 10:50:38
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
Mr Morden wrote: Ethnic diversity is here to stay and most of the time its easier in fantasy than some other generes.
I thought Shadow and Bone, the Outpost and Shanara did this element this well.
Really? I thought Shadow and Bone handled it really poorly. I spent most of the first episode trying to figure out why the various NPCs were being stupidly, blatantly racist at the main (?) character. Particularly since they were mostly fighting Not!Scandinavians or themselves and their Not!Russia seemed to have a bunch of other ethnicities that they didn't mind and weren't treated any differently at all (even if they looked less or more not!Chinese than the main character). And then Not!Amsterdam was stuffed full of a variety of people but only some seemed to get the racism flag, but not others. If you're going to try to handle ethnicity, at least try to be consistent about it- don't limit ethnic awareness just to have folks be bigoted at protagonists.
It was a weird mess even before the 'we hate our magic users who are the only ones who can save us' angle.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: I am interested to watch this. I remember reading this series as a kid and coming back later to read a few when Brandon Sanderson took over after the main authors passing.
I found the world super interesting and it was on the whole an enjoyable series, but it did drag on a bit and had to many story lines. I remember skipping over entire chapters of characters I hated during the mid books.
If they are going to make a TV series from books from when I was a kid, I would like them to do David Eddings groups of novels. Granted I haven't read his books since the 80's and 90's but as a child they held me in thrall (maybe re-read now and not as much, or maybe more, but I don't want to dispel the illusion... ). However, I still remember today snipits of the books etc and consider that a source of my modern inspiration.
I am in the process of reading the Belgariad to my son. I read the whole series when I was about 10 and absolutely loved it. I literally couldn’t put it down. I now realise that The dialogue is terrible and the entire world is built on institutionalised racial stereotypes and lazy sexism. The underlying story is great and very heroic and stuff, but it would need a lot of work to meet modern expectations I think. It is of it’s time.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Personally I don't mind racism in fantasy stories. Sometimes I even find it grating when everything in the story is presented as if its the modern world social values projected on a society that doesn't seem to support them by nature but has them anyway. Or everything is viewed through the "eye" of modern values. So even if there is racism and such within the setting, everything is seen and narrated as though anything that isn't a modern value is "bad" etc...
It's not that I wish for such things to be a part of modern life, but rather that I prefer fantasy settings to stand firm on their own feet as their own setting. Even if sometimes I might dislike how one character treats another or another race within the setting; that's just part of characters being characters and having their own identity and values.
I think I see your point, but in the Belgariad, each country literally and entirely follow their assigned stereotype. It’s like beyond racism in that everyone in the setting knows exactly how people of another country is going to act, and even the people Of that country agree and play up to those stereotypes. It’s all a bit weird, and Murgos basically exist to be murderized by everyone else and they seem to know it and therefore are going for the Machiavellian schemers prize with national level industrious gusto. Also powerful women can only give vent to their anger through hysterical shrieking and localised vandalism.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 19:49:54
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Yeah I can see what you mean. It can happen when authors are, to my thinking, a bit too influenced by the "DnD" rule book style of writing fantasy. Ergo everyone fits their stereotype to a fault. It's a very video-game or film style of structure which can flesh out a setting quickly, but which can fall apart in a book if followed too strictly because you end up realising how strange everything is.
Flinty wrote: I think I see your point, but in the Belgariad, each country literally and entirely follow their assigned stereotype. It’s like beyond racism in that everyone in the setting knows exactly how people of another country is going to act, and even the people Of that country agree and play up to those stereotypes. It’s all a bit weird, and Murgos basically exist to be murderized by everyone else and they seem to know it and therefore are going for the Machiavellian schemers prize with national level industrious gusto. Also powerful women can only give vent to their anger through hysterical shrieking and localised vandalism.
Yeah, the racism is one of the aspects that I really enjoyed about that series. At the time I did not notice the sexism though, I did read it in my late teens over 20 years ago, so it seemingly just went over my head.
I did not find the ethnic diversity in Shanara distracting, maybe because of all the post apocalyptic elements?
There are places in Fantasy settings where ethnic diversity makes sense (like port cities), but mostly when I see it makes me think of a modern USA setting, so it distracts me.
"it’s almost shockingly devoid of artistry or narrative momentum" (admittedly a bit out of context as part of a simile but still...)
"The younger parts are played by relatively unknown actors who would have been perfectly at home in a CW drama and convey little more than one-note attractiveness."
Flinty wrote: I think I see your point, but in the Belgariad, each country literally and entirely follow their assigned stereotype. It’s like beyond racism in that everyone in the setting knows exactly how people of another country is going to act, and even the people Of that country agree and play up to those stereotypes. It’s all a bit weird, and Murgos basically exist to be murderized by everyone else and they seem to know it and therefore are going for the Machiavellian schemers prize with national level industrious gusto. Also powerful women can only give vent to their anger through hysterical shrieking and localised vandalism.
The Murgos are also 'yellow peril,' which really doesn't help any. And when the wife of one of the secondary characters (Barak) basically accuses him of raping her, in public, the assembled party (and local nobility) don't even blink. It doesn't register to anyone as a problem. The authors penchant for characterizing 40+ year old men marrying teenaged girls as 'romantic' (and desirable by the girls) is also super creepy (this is the one big flaw (beyond cliches) of the Elenium, which is generally the superior series, as it tends to be more nuanced despite being about not!Catholic knightly orders on the surface). Though its sequel series is just... bad).
Like you, reading it as a kid, I loved it. These days... sorry, no. Not much for coming of age stories anymore, and the racism and sexism is framed as far too perfectly reasonable and rational to be comfortable.
----
As for the Wheel of Time review, I'm not surprised. The series itself is inherently pretty tedious (and became moreso over time, as Jordan seemed set on never resolving plot points, just introducing more), and getting that to work even an extended series rather than a movie format was going to be an overwhelming task. Though... I didn't expect it to fail on the basics of set design, lighting, costumes and monster props.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/18 17:57:26
Tried to watch the first episode. Didn't make it through the whole episode. The changes to the characters make absolutely no sense and some of the ones I have seen cause major problems for the future storylines.
Spoiler:
Turned it off when Perrin killed his pregnant girlfriend with the crescent axe he picks up out of the corner as if it means nothing.
I liked the books but never finished the series… and read it many years ago so my memory of the books is sketchy.
After seeing the first episode… watchable but disappointing. Better than the Shannara TV series and Legend of the Seeker tv series but not another first season Game of Thrones.
Spoiler:
OK, I know it has been a long time since I read the books but…
The Dragon Reborn might be a woman? What?
Drunken Ladettes defending Two Rivers? What?
Bath scene between Moiraine and Lan? Stoic Lan complains about cold water and Moiraine uses the One Power for something so petty? Is that in the book? It seems very counter to how I remember the characters.
Perrin married… albeit briefly? What a terrible thing to burden a new character with.
What was with the post-apoc modern skyscraper ruins? Is WoT supposed to be post-apoc in a contemporary sense? Or was this a nod to the Shannara tv series which seemed to misunderstand how long ago it’s apocalypse was.
Casting seems hit and miss.
Set dressing is brilliant but costuming is a bit hit and miss. Some great colors, materials and designs but quite a lot of Asian themes and a remarkably diverse population. Perhaps I have been spoiled by the WoT book covers. Not enough distressing on the day to day clothing.
Perhaps over the top but visually interesting battle in Two Rivers. Trollocs look cool when dodgy CGI does not let them down.
I recall Tam doing better than basically getting beaten by a single Trolloc. Given his background this scene seemed off. The Trollocs are in my opinion being shown as too powerful on one hand but then not so much against Lan. Directors seem to get carried away too easily. More is not always better, both the Trollocs and Lan.
Same with Moiriaine’s use of the One Power. At first it was amazing. Then it got a bit much. Then it got over the top. Then it started getting eye rolling. Although it was an interesting image to see it destroy the tavern… a very visible reminder of the price of using the One Power… or magic… or any power for that matter. Collateral damage showing why you can not simply magic all your problems away.
The Fade looked cool.
Much of the world building of Wheel of Time is rather derivative, like Shannara, owing quite a lot to Tolkien. I suspect some of the costuming and casting choices may have been to break from that…. but every time I saw the mountainous vistas I thought of Peter Jackson’s cinematography in Lord of the Rings.
At least this show has so far been better than Jackson’s the Hobbit.
Technically, from what I remember all those many years ago that I read them (i.e. before Jordan even died, so I never read the final books), The Wheel of Time world is a post-apocalyptic aftermath of a society much more advanced than ours that used the One Power sort of as a replacement for technology when both genders could use it as much as they wanted. It was destroyed when Shaitan was released from his giant dimensional prison-thing. Several times visions were granted of flying vehicles and advanced buildings from the time of his escape.
I also remember at least one or two mentions in the book of the characters seeing advanced skyscraper-like structures in the far distance as they traveled, and I distantly remember that Mat ends up inside one of them, travelling to some sort of other dimension.
If the screw up Perrin, I will avoid this show like a used syringe on a street corner.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Yeah, it comes across as a magical Jetsons-type society in the bits we get from Lews Therin in the books.
What happened to Rand's dad is consistent with the books too.
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Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
Baragash wrote: Yeah, it comes across as a magical Jetsons-type society in the bits we get from Lews Therin in the books.
What happened to Rand's dad is consistent with the books too.
No it isn't. Rand's Dad is a Swordmaster and definitely takes out more than one Trolloc. The entire fight scene at home is abysmal. He does get hurt, but not gravely since he is important to the Two Rivers story arc later.
They were also all 17ish, not 20. Perrin wasn't married/dating and definitely wasn't expecting a kid. He gets his crescent axe from his Haral, who he is apprenticing under, when he is quickly leaving because of the attack. The fact that he is with somebody at the beginning of this really causes problems for his whole story arc later. Did they just get rid of Haral and Joslyn in this?
Also, none of what is happening with Matt's parents is in the first book. At all. I don't even know what is going on there. Further, why was Abell hiding? He is known as a good fighter, second only to Tam in skill, who is a Master Swordsman.
I see in the previews what looks to be a Beastman? How prominent are they in this series?
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
AegisGrimm wrote: Technically, from what I remember all those many years ago that I read them (i.e. before Jordan even died, so I never read the final books), The Wheel of Time world is a post-apocalyptic aftermath of a society much more advanced than ours that used the One Power sort of as a replacement for technology when both genders could use it as much as they wanted. It was destroyed when Shaitan was released from his giant dimensional prison-thing. Several times visions were granted of flying vehicles and advanced buildings from the time of his escape.
I also remember at least one or two mentions in the book of the characters seeing advanced skyscraper-like structures in the far distance as they traveled, and I distantly remember that Mat ends up inside one of them, travelling to some sort of other dimension.
If the screw up Perrin, I will avoid this show like a used syringe on a street corner.
Fair enough, I guess I must have skimmed over those bits and forgotten them. I recall an apocalypse just not that it was from so advanced a society. My memory is going like my eyesight.
Baragash wrote: Yeah, it comes across as a magical Jetsons-type society in the bits we get from Lews Therin in the books.
What happened to Rand's dad is consistent with the books too.
No it isn't. Rand's Dad is a Swordmaster and definitely takes out more than one Trolloc. The entire fight scene at home is abysmal. He does get hurt, but not gravely since he is important to the Two Rivers story arc later.
They were also all 17ish, not 20. Perrin wasn't married/dating and definitely wasn't expecting a kid. He gets his crescent axe from his Haral, who he is apprenticing under, when he is quickly leaving because of the attack. The fact that he is with somebody at the beginning of this really causes problems for his whole story arc later. Did they just get rid of Haral and Joslyn in this?
Also, none of what is happening with Matt's parents is in the first book. At all. I don't even know what is going on there. Further, why was Abell hiding? He is known as a good fighter, second only to Tam in skill, who is a Master Swordsman.
They showed pretty well that Rand's dad is an excellent swordsman, and he'll show up again later, given that Moraine heals him afterwards. And with his wife extremely dead, there's plenty of room for Perrin to marry Faile later. Right now it just serves to put his inner conflict over fighting at the fore, which is a handy narrative device given we're not getting any inner monologue.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AegisGrimm wrote: If the screw up Perrin, I will avoid this show like a used syringe on a street corner.
Perrin seems pretty much on point. There's some mild changes in background for Perrin and Mat (Perrin being married to show he's the responsible, solemn semi-pacifist, Mat's family being screwed up to give him, well, any motivation at all in book 1), but it mostly serves to accentuate their personalities and give them some depth at the start of a book where they very much don't get any of that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/20 18:00:18
). However, I still remember today snipits of the books etc and consider that a source of my modern inspiration.
