Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2021/12/23 22:36:54
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
It is one of the US book covers for Eye of the World. I have a dustcover for my hardback using this art.
I find it odd that different countries use different books covers. If you go looking at book covers in other countries, you will quickly realize that US book covers suck.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/23 22:37:35
2021/12/23 22:47:47
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
So Christmas Eve (tomorrow) is the finale? Are they already committed to a season 2? I see there is a listing for s2e1 on IMDB which is owned by Amazon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently production started for season 2 before this one premiered. Ballsy...
I associate all the original covers with the Wheel of Time, as all of the books I have (they were up to 9 when i fell away for a while) all have that same artwork.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2021/12/23 23:17:07
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Barney was unable to come back due to COVID related issues. They basically had to shut down and shoot EPs 7 and 8 separately, and he wasn't able to rejoin the production.
Spoiler:
Mat does not stay behind in the novels, but it's not an insurmountable issue as his arc in Book 2 effectively begins back in the White Tower.
2021/12/24 00:28:42
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
That sucks for him if it was suppose to be his big break. The shutdown prior to the filming of the last two episodes explains his relative absence and plot development there but less so tye recasting for next season.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are they mostly adapting the overall books structure into the seasons (i.e. Book one = season one) so far?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/24 00:29:46
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2021/12/24 00:50:23
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
warboss wrote: That sucks for him if it was suppose to be his big break. The shutdown prior to the filming of the last two episodes explains his relative absence and plot development there but less so tye recasting for next season.
Believe it or not he actually did more with the character than there was in the first novel. Mat (and to a lesser but still present degree Perrin) are characters that flounder quite a bit in the early books. Barney did a solid job giving depth to the character in the time he had with him, and I genuinely hope his career survives COVID.
Are they mostly adapting the overall books structure into the seasons (i.e. Book one = season one) so far?
S1 (with the caveat that I havent seen the finale) appears to pretty squarely cover the events of the first book. What S2 will look at is anyone's guess, but a similar take on book 2 seems the plausible starting point.
2021/12/24 02:54:54
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
S1 (with the caveat that I havent seen the finale) appears to pretty squarely cover the events of the first book. What S2 will look at is anyone's guess, but a similar take on book 2 seems the plausible starting point.
I have to admit that option felt like the less likely one to me (again from a position of complete ignorance regarding the books). I figured with the adaptation for the screen and so many novels that they'd pick and choose from the first three books what felt/flowed right to the writers. I'm a bit impressed that they didn't do that.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2021/12/24 03:43:13
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
I have to admit that option felt like the less likely one to me (again from a position of complete ignorance regarding the books). I figured with the adaptation for the screen and so many novels that they'd pick and choose from the first three books what felt/flowed right to the writers. I'm a bit impressed that they didn't do that.
I adore Jordan for the world he created and the series was an integral part of younger Sterling's life...but you could cut about 2-300 pages from each book with little to no impact to the overarching stories involved. Managing to fit the salient events of the first novel into an 8-hour run is quite the feat of adaptation.
That being said...
Spoiler:
events in the finale (and I'm being deliberately vague even behind a spoiler tag until folks have had a chance to catch up) open the door for some significant divergence of several major arcs going into book 2 (and possible book 3). Thats not to say that I think they're going to just smoosh those two together for S2, rather that we might see some bleed of events as we finally make our way out of the "prologue". There's a lot of threads to pick up and reconcile.
2021/12/24 10:31:32
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Finished the last episode. Still I like Moiraine and Lan. Still I do not care about the 5 (Wolf boy useless as always). Will I watch the season 2? Yes, because the ending scene was promising.
2021/12/24 10:38:00
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
I wonder how combustible the book purists will be about
Spoiler:
Lews Therin being referred to as the Dragon Reborn rather than the Dragon in the flashback sequence
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2021/12/24 10:46:07
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Mr Morden wrote: Everything looks out of proportion to everything else....its awful.
I disagree.
I love the artwork of Darrell K. Sweet. His work is among my most loved.
He did the covers of several Wheel of Time books as well as the covers for many other books I have enjoyed over the years.
Amusingly, I've strongly disliked Sweet's covers for the books since the very beginning. I think you're the first person I've encountered who has used the word "love" in response to his work on WoT.
I am hardly alone in loving his work.
Again… for the curious his cover illustrations for the various WoT books are here…
“Harriet McDougal, Robert Jordan’s wife and editor said, “Darrell was a great pleasure to work with, painstaking for accuracy to the text (well, his trollocs, not, and yet wonderful), and what color and energy in his work! There is nobody like him.”
He was an inspiration to a generation of artists as well as readers. Hugo award-winning Donato Giancola hangs a Sweet painting proudly in his living room, “Darrell’s work became an integral part of my development as a professional artist. I intently studied dozens of his works on the novels I purchased and read, mostly for his wonderful cover illustrations.” Greg Manchess stated, ” I was fascinated by his comfortable, gentle rendering that lent a lovely, believable light to all of his pictures.”
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/24 11:24:41
Rick, the Grumpy Gnome
https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/
2021/12/24 11:42:36
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
AduroT wrote: Were there supposed to be captions/subtitles for that opening scene or were we just to guess at the context?
There are subtitles for that scene and they honestly just make it much worse.
All you need to know is that the guy is Lews Therin Thelamon, The Dragon and he is discussing with the leaders of the female Aes Sedai what to do about the Dark One and they do not agree.
They actual say stuff that besides flat out contradicting the books also is a bit weird for in show reasons.
2021/12/24 15:38:49
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Wow.. that was not good. I'd say it rivaled the first episode for the worst in my opinion. Wow.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is the scifi aspect of the flashback from the books or a new addition by the show? I'm not opposed to that part in particular but was curious. Was the character there called the Dragon Reborn because he also wasn't the first (and the current reincarnation won't be the last either as the Wheel turns)?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/24 15:46:06
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2021/12/24 15:54:44
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Is the scifi aspect of the flashback from the books or a new addition by the show? I'm not opposed to that part in particular but was curious. Was the character there called the Dragon Reborn because he also wasn't the first (and the current reincarnation won't be the last either as the Wheel turns)?
Spoiler:
It's an accurate depiction of the Age of Legends. The descriptions of that era don't really roll out till far later in the books, but it's consistent. The amount of awareness Rand has of his past life is significantly higher than it is in the books at this point, so I expect we'll see more stingers from back in the day (his relationship with the individual who may or may not be the Dark One for instance is foundational to parts of the conflict and I genuinely hope we'll see that explored more).
As to Lews Therin's title, that's a change. The cyclical nature of reality is the likely justification. It's a foundational metaphysical aspect of the setting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Baragash wrote: I wonder how combustible the book purists will be about
Spoiler:
Lews Therin being referred to as the Dragon Reborn rather than the Dragon in the flashback sequence
Oh theyre utterly livid, and it's delightful.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/24 16:04:16
2021/12/24 16:33:30
Subject: Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
As to Lews Therin's title, that's a change. The cyclical nature of reality is the likely justification. It's a foundational metaphysical aspect of the setting.
Thanks. Good to know that it wasn't a mistake!
It's Christmas so I don't want to be a grinch in reviewing this finale episode. I'll just say that I'm glad to see the arrival of the fire nation and I'm curious to see if Prince Zuko will be able to handle the madness. The tsunami to handle one six year old girl was a bit excessive though!
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2021/12/29 08:34:27
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Well we finally got to see the season finale. I disliked it more than Mrs. GG did…. but yeah… very disappointed.
All that money spent and either they hired an incompetent military technical advisor or ignored their competent one. All of the battle stuff was just terrible. Like, worse than Jackson’s Battle of the Five Armies bad. I do not want to spoil it but if you have seen it you know what I mean.
This episode, more than any of the others so far reminded me of the disappointing TV adaptation of Shannara.
There was just so much I did not like with the writing and the interactions between characters. So much. Our heroes, meh. Padain Fain and his pet Fades… meh. Disposable secondary nameless (or forgotten) characters… meh. Meh, meh, meh. Just meh.
Edit: OK, one thing I did like was the actor playing “the big bad.”
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/29 18:05:53
Rick, the Grumpy Gnome
https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/
2021/12/29 16:15:10
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
All that money spent and either they hired an incompetent military technical advisor or ignored their competent one. All of the battle stuff was just terrible. Like, worse than Jackson’s Battle of the Five Armies bad. I do not want to spoil it but if you have seen it you know what I mean.
I don't understand. What militarily was wrong with sending in the first wave of suicidal asians and then lining up the ablative strong independent women of color behind them? Sure... the messaging was a bit off when you write it out factually like that but it worked against the xbox 360 in game horde of beastmen.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2021/12/29 18:30:04
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Or why a pike block would run to that gap wall as a handful of mounted nobles gallop, just to then have the commanding officer hidden away as just another crossbowman in a wall littered with arrowslits (unlike any historical fortification I am aware of but I am happy if someone can point out a historical precedent) that allows Trolloc pyramids to have easy access at the lowest level. No oil. No dropped stones. No caltrops. No moat. No seige engines on the main fortification but a bunch instead unprotected on the walkway to the gate of the city. Ugh. I mean I know kids who have only played Total War a few times that could build better defenses.
And the Trollocs were no better. The big plan was pointless Trolloc diversion with Trolloc pyramids just so moustache twirling Padain Fain can do some exposition? No clever ploy to circumvent the gap wall? No better equipment?
Worse than meh. At least the costuming was interesting.
Even Mrs. GG was like… “Why we’re the men in front of the channeling women?” during the scene and she almost never speaks during a show.
Here is a link with an interview that has the showrunner explaining the changes they made from the book and why. I dislike the changes and the reasoning behind those changes.
* I liked the bit with the older high tech (or high magic?) civilisation.
* Battle at the Gap - why split your forces and have your heavy hitters (including all the artillery) behind the lines waiting for their menfolk to be slaughtered in a pointless battle. Also sending refugess away only a few hours ahead of a rampaging horde is stupid - True its nowhere near as bad as the endless stupidity of the Battle of Winterfell - but it would take so much to be worse than that!
* Happy with the Trollac charge - it seems to be just a distraction and Dark Lords are never short of brutal but stupid minions.
* Nice bit with the bad guys walking in, monologuing a bit and then walking off with the magic horn - the battle of the gap being a distraction?
* Yeah they really should have killed Mat when they could.
* Child on the beach being attacked by an entire fleet reminded me of scenes in the Malazan book of the Fallen - I am expecting her to be more annoyed than threatened.....but could be wrong.
* Hurrah they got rid of the sulky, annoying "Wisdom" - oh wait she is main cast and gets healed - no one else though.... * Ogre guy going down was a surprise but it seems like he is not actually dead.
* Morrain still in though - hurrah.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
IIRC.....In the books the Horn is found by Rand at the Eye of the World, so the Battle of the Gap isn't a distraction, then he teleports to the Gap and wastes all the Trollocs, so the "keeping the big hitters at the back" doesn't happen
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/30 23:11:34
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2021/12/31 22:34:15
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Alright, considering we are definitely getting a Season 2 no matter what, I have some questions for the book readers about the future of the show. So if you are reading the books now after watching the show and care about those things, beware
Spoiler:
So, that was quite an ending. The show has changed up quite a bit, but it seems that they are sticking with Rand as the Dragon.
Now I am curious how they are going to play out these new changes. Specific changes that have important roles to play in Book 2 as well as down the line. I am probably missing a lot of major plot twists, but these struck out to me.
- The Ways: Any ol aes sedai can open them up? That is going to make the world a lot smaller.
- Camelyn: We are still missing 2-4 pretty important characters from Camelyn right now, with all the changes we have had so far. What can we expect here?
- Shayol Ghul?: Does it exist? The Eye of the World is the prison now, but is that Shayol Ghul now? What about the seals, are they a thing? Moiraine was shocked to see cuendillar.
- The White Tower: Is the Amyrlin Seat part of the Black Ajah?
- The Seanchan: How will they be portrayed? What about their monsters? Their armor looked neat.
- Moiraine: She got gentled? Um, what? That is a big change from the books and I gotta say, her not having powers is huge for the plot itself.
2021/12/31 23:53:18
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
- The Ways: Any ol aes sedai can open them up? That is going to make the world a lot smaller.
It's the opposite. In the books anyone can open the ways assuming the leaf hasn't been removed from one side or the other, because they were built for the Ogier. Limiting them in theory to Aes Sedai limits who can use them.
Spoiler:
- Shayol Ghul?: Does it exist? The Eye of the World is the prison now, but is that Shayol Ghul now? What about the seals, are they a thing? Moiraine was shocked to see cuendillar.
The difference in the EotW and SG seems consistent at this stage between the books and the show, so this isn't really a question. Moraine was shocked that the Cuendillar was breakable since it's meant to be unbreakable - much like the Ways degrading it's meant to be because of the taint on Saidin when it was created. It looked like they took artistic license with the seal, ie the big mural on the floor was a seal, but no sign of the small discs they could carry around that Rand uses to count down to the Final Battle
Spoiler:
- The White Tower: Is the Amyrlin Seat part of the Black Ajah?
The Black Ajar is more subtle than that, I don't want to go into detail because it's potentially a large part of the story to spoil
Spoiler:
- The Seanchan: How will they be portrayed? What about their monsters? Their armor looked neat.
They're pretty faceless until later in the books when the main characters get to interact with them
Spoiler:
- Moiraine: She got gentled? Um, what? That is a big change from the books and I gotta say, her not having powers is huge for the plot itself.
More likely it's just a Shield that Ishamael tied the weaves on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/31 23:54:05
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2022/01/01 00:29:16
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
Only people who had knowledge of that could use it, which was even smaller than any aes sedai that exists. So I disagree. Not everyone knew of the leaf, in fact it was right in front of many peoples noses and none of them used it ever.
Spoiler:
The difference between SG and EotW is not consistent at all with this stage of the books/show. The EotW is a pool of pure saidin for the Dragon, also housing a dragon banner and the horn + One green man. SG is the actual prison. She already knows it is breakable, since she knows at this point in the books that seals have already broken. She shouldn't be shocked at all, but she is which is a deviation of the books. Which means she either does not know about the seals, they do not exist in the shows, or she does not know they can actually break.
Spoiler:
I mean, they definitely aren't, especially in the books. They fled in the middle of the night without masking their identities and looted as much stuff as they could grab before getting caught. That is as subtle as a brick to the head. They cause a civil war where one side is definitely the black ajah and one isn't.
Spoiler:
The main characters deal with them in the second book, which will be the second season. Egwynn is about to go through some gak, maybe.
Spoiler:
I doubt it, he has the ability and power to outright gentle her. Is this saying he is still imprisoned? He shouldn't be, Ishamael was never fully imprisoned and has been doing a lot of gak in history. He also shouldn't be there, it should be Aginor and Balthamel. Where are they now?
2022/01/01 16:51:48
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
The difference between SG and EotW is not consistent at all with this stage of the books/show. The EotW is a pool of pure saidin for the Dragon, also housing a dragon banner and the horn + One green man. SG is the actual prison. She already knows it is breakable, since she knows at this point in the books that seals have already broken. She shouldn't be shocked at all, but she is which is a deviation of the books. Which means she either does not know about the seals, they do not exist in the shows, or she does not know they can actually break.
Spoiler:
just because you know seals are going to break doesn"t mean it won't shock you to actually see it in your front. Irrefutabie evidence. All hope of being wrong crushed. Breaking, and maybe end, of the world looming.
Spoiler:
I mean, they definitely aren't, especially in the books. They fled in the middle of the night without masking their identities and looted as much stuff as they could grab before getting caught. That is as subtle as a brick to the head. They cause a civil war where one side is definitely the black ajah and one isn't.
Spoiler:
There were black and non black on both sides fanning the civil war.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2022/01/04 16:41:41
Subject: Re:Wheel of Time coming to Amazon (Book chat in spoilers please)
So I’ve started watching this, having read the series a while ago but after the final book was published. I read the series one after another, so I don’t really have any clear memory of the individual novels and where they begin and end and only a vague recollection of the overall story.
That being said I’m enjoying the series well enough so far (I’ve watched the first 3 episodes). The production value seems all over the place, sometimes looking high quality but at other times like fairly cheap SyFy channel stuff like Xena or the Shannara adaptation. I’m not a huge fan of Roasamund Pike at the best of times and she’s ok in this but I’d enjoy it more if Morraine wasn’t the pushed forward as the lead character in this adaptation. Either that or a more charismatic actress in the role. The cast for the youths seem out of their depth on the whole, but hopefully they’ll grow into their roles.
Overall its good enough that I’ll watch the res of the season and I’ll probably watch the next season as well if the standard doesn’t drop, but I was hoping for better. Perhaps it’ll improve as the season progresses, or in the second season.
As for differences from the novels, ageing up of characters is pretty much a given in tv land for adolescents, so I’m fine with that. As for the rest, I don’t remember enough detail about the books to feel there has been anything particularly jarring or that I dislike especially. Adaptations are always going to make changes when they change medium. Personally I don’t think there is any benefit in delaying the reveal of who the dragon reborn is, or to make it seem like it could be one of the women.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that it’s almost like a parallel reality compared to the books.elaborating on that, I can see this being a portrayal of a different turning of the wheel showing the same age, similar to the film version of the dark tower compared to the books.
After all there are no beginnings or endings in the wheel of time and the wheel keeps turning.
why split your forces and have your heavy hitters (including all the artillery) behind the lines waiting for their menfolk to be slaughtered in a pointless battle. Also sending refugess away only a few hours ahead of a rampaging horde is stupid - True its nowhere near as bad as the endless stupidity of the Battle of Winterfell - but it would take so much to be worse than that!
