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I for one cannot stand 8th ruleset, period.

After a few years, it also became as bloated as was the 7th
of late (which was one of the reason they dropped it if I remember correctly) ,
and you just need more and more books by the day.

Then the primaris thing. No, just no (for me).

I just hope That HH will keep a separate road, because this version of 40K
almost made me drop the game, and I was playing it since de Rogue Trader days.

I'd be all for a couple of 'Great Crusade' era books - play all the Legions before things got dumb AND add in a bunch of Xenos?

Yes, please!

 Irbis wrote:

I also bet sales would be vastly larger if they did what Alan wanted to do and dumped the crap rule set that nearly managed to sink 40K and went with 8th edition (if only because a lot of people used to invest into side HH army to play it in 40K thanks to common rules due to lack of HH players around), but alas, they seem hell bent on throwing more money into that bottomless pit to not admit their mistake...

Whilst I take issue with almost everything you've said, the above is certainly the point I have the biggest annoyance with.

Alan NEVER intended to bring the Heresy to 8th edition. He intended, drafted and playtested an entirely different version of the game with an entirely different turn sequence.

Your entire post was plucked from thin air and personal bias.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
I'd imagine another HH game like Betrayal at Calth or the Burning of Prospero is in order. I want my plastic Beakie squads damnit!

It's really weird how you spelled "Mk5" as "Beakies".

Maybe other people care about MkV. I don't. I want Primaris-sized MkVI.

Nurglitch wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
I'd imagine another HH game like Betrayal at Calth or the Burning of Prospero is in order. I want my plastic Beakie squads damnit!

It's really weird how you spelled "Mk5" as "Beakies".

Maybe other people care about MkV. I don't. I want Primaris-sized MkVI.

Actually, just Primaris-sized Heresy-era marines.

Period.

Mk II, III, IV and V would be great.

Lord knows it would be easier to paint.

It would be a tragedy to have to buy and build Primaris-Sized Palatine Blades and Phoenix Terminators. I would hate to have to re-buy 2 sets of each.

Let me get my wallet...

8th edition as is HH or Primaris in HH and I would be done with GW altogether. I am not the only one in my group that feels like that, and we are/were, before the delays, significant spenders on HH/GW.

I am sure either of those options would attract new people into HH who wouldn't normally play it, but it would also push out a fair few people who have been in HH a long time.

You will never get Primaris sized 30k marines, as Primaris are specifically larger in the fluff than standard space marines.

Some newer heresy marine models are slightly taller like the deathwatch/space marine heroes/new CSM sizing, that's probably the best you can hope for in 30k if you like oversized marine models.

Actual Primaris appearing in 30k is an absurd suggestion

robbienw wrote:
You will never get Primaris sized 30k marines, as Primaris are specifically larger in the fluff than standard space marines.

Some newer heresy marine models are slightly taller like the deathwatch/space marine heroes/new CSM sizing, that's probably the best you can hope for in 30k if you like oversized marine models.

Actual Primaris appearing in 30k is an absurd suggestion

I agree the better proportioned marines are the new standard for standard sized marines, but I can't help but think they may just stick to the old scale to avoid any of the backward compatibility issues that might arise from abruptly changing standards. That said I think when you look at the different marks of armor sets we had before most of those were undersized compared to the plastic HH minis we did get so it would be worthwhile for them to consider slowly fixing the scale up to the new standard.

That said, in the lore there are a number of marines specifically mentioned as being noticeably taller than other marines and I don't think it'd be too bad if some minis were in fact taller than standard without being a full-on character.

mortar_crew wrote:
I for one cannot stand 8th ruleset, period.

After a few years, it also became as bloated as was the 7th
of late (which was one of the reason they dropped it if I remember correctly) ,
and you just need more and more books by the day.

Then the primaris thing. No, just no (for me).

I just hope That HH will keep a separate road, because this version of 40K
almost made me drop the game, and I was playing it since de Rogue Trader days.

I dunno, I'm learning the opposite.

You don't seem to need any of the books outside of the codex and the CA content. The formations from VA and VD for example, I've never seen then used except for once. I do see the SM supplements being used a lot in my local group, but given out of around 40 players 29 of them play marines, that's not too surprising.

Personally at its base, I love 8th edition. Since it came out, I no longer have 4 hour long games where 25% of the game is spent arguing over which armor facing the autocannon can see. Or how many soldiers are under the stupid template. Or who does and doesn't get cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

robbienw wrote:
You will never get Primaris sized 30k marines, as Primaris are specifically larger in the fluff than standard space marines.

Some newer heresy marine models are slightly taller like the deathwatch/space marine heroes/new CSM sizing, that's probably the best you can hope for in 30k if you like oversized marine models.

Actual Primaris appearing in 30k is an absurd suggestion

Except that GW will do it eventually when they learn they can make the HH community buy their armies all over again. Don't be surprised if Primaris come to HH some day.

No, not primaris-sized. EVEN BIGGER! Like they should re-release the entire HH line in 48mm true-scale fully anatomically accurate. Then they can add an explanation that the battle between Horus and the Emperor released such titanic forces that it actually shrank the entire universe 40%. Yes, that means 40k primaris marines are actually like 4'9" in today's measurements. Deal with it.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
No, not primaris-sized. EVEN BIGGER! Like they should re-release the entire HH line in 48mm true-scale fully anatomically accurate. Then they can add an explanation that the battle between Horus and the Emperor released such titanic forces that it actually shrank the entire universe 40%. Yes, that means 40k primaris marines are actually like 4'9" in today's measurements. Deal with it.

As much as I want Inquisitor back, don't give them any ideas...

While I would welcome new primaris-sized Marine models, I am much more interested in having models that are properly portioned than anything else. I want them to look cool and "right" rather than just going for the increased size. Not sure how viable just up-scaling the base marines would be, given that every single model would need to be changed (including the Primarchs). Far easier to just release better proportioned models, honestly.

Not really interested in switching to 8th edition as I do not think it would make the game better. Not that 7th edition is really my jam either (I would prefer to go back to 5th edition as a base then fix its inherent flaws and add the newer unit types (like flyers)). I do not think 8th edition would fix the real issue people have with 30k - the fact that big blobs of marines are not viable in the game (like they are in the novels). 8th edition would make it worse since AP is so much more detrimental to Marines and the sheer amount of damage thrown around in the 8th edition rules vastly outstrips what you can do in 7th/30k.

 Arbitrator wrote:

Cyrixiinus wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Plastic Imperial Army would be nice.

I don't even care about new models, just a proper imperial army list would be awesome.

The news that the team working on age of darkness will be increased is good to hear. But I'm guessing it will be at least another 18 months before we see any sort of increase in the number of releases we see. A new plastic starter box for AoD is the biggest thing that is needed right now. Basically everyone I know that plays started when the calthclath / prospero boxes were available

Isn't the Warp Cults and Militia list meant, or usable for, for the Imperial Army?

Not exactly. Militia represent local planetary defence forces cobbled together or barely organised cultists. You can absolutely use them to represent the Army, but they're not Imperial Army regulars. It's the opposite of how you can use the Imperial Guard to represent PDF.

There was an interview floating around from one of the recent(ish) Weekenders where FW said they'd like to do an Imperial Army Regulars list. Presumably it's faaar down the priorities, but if/when we get a Tallarn book I could see it happening there. The question is going to be if we'll see any dedicated kits for it beyond a few shared SA/Militia/Army armoured vehicles, especially with FW's willingness to indulge in plastics more these days and potential Guard players scooping them up for conversions.

This. The current lists are far too limiting. I have two guard armies, valhallen artillery and steel legion mechanised. Neither of these can be represented using the current lists. For some reason none of the chimera hull vehicles have made it in to AoD, though the marines have rhino hull versions of the basilisk etc?

I don't expect to see a full army list until we get a tallarn book, which would mainly be tanked based, if it follows the fluff. This must be a couple of years down the line at least.

The constant 8th arguments really grate on me. The only people that want HH to be 8th based are 8th players. All the 30k players I know / have meet are happy with the age of darkness rule set being it's own thing. Most just wish they had changed the psychic phase when they released the AOD rule book. We won't see primaries marines in the HH for the same reason we don't see Razorbacks, they didn't exist at the time.

Forge world treat HH for what it is, a historical war game, all be it set in a fictional universe. Tony cotteral has described it as such multiple times now.

The Chimera hull hasn't been discovered yet by 30k.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd be all for a couple of 'Great Crusade' era books - play all the Legions before things got dumb AND add in a bunch of Xenos?

Yes, please!

They even have the major fluff points they can explore too. You have the Rangdan Xenocides that could bring a completely different xenos archetype and army style that could also really let FW flex their sculpting abilities beyond more rhino hull panels. We can see the disparity between the Ork empires of Gorro and Ullanor to that of 40k and even for Eldar you can show some of them before they fully developed into the Path archetype for Craftworlders and Exodites as well.

Cyrixiinus wrote:
The Chimera hull hasn't been discovered yet by 30k.

The Basalisk and the Medusa were widely used in the Heresy, both of which use the Chimera chassis.

Hm. Right you are.

 Togusa wrote:
Except that GW will do it eventually when they learn they can make the HH community buy their armies all over again. Don't be surprised if Primaris come to HH some day.

Nah. Their business plan is all about selling expensive characters, vehicles, Titans, and other centerpiece models to 'whale' customers. We'll get 18 new versions of Primarchs, three new classes of Titans, and two dozen more Predator/Sicaran/Spartan/etc. variants before any kind of 'updated' SM for 30K. They don't even want to support the SM armor marks and upgrade kits they used to have.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd be all for a couple of 'Great Crusade' era books - play all the Legions before things got dumb AND add in a bunch of Xenos?

Yes, please!

*BUZZ* Incorrect. The right answer was Unification Wars...Unification Wars.

 gorgon wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Except that GW will do it eventually when they learn they can make the HH community buy their armies all over again. Don't be surprised if Primaris come to HH some day.

Nah. Their business plan is all about selling expensive characters, vehicles, Titans, and other centerpiece models to 'whale' customers. We'll get 18 new versions of Primarchs, three new classes of Titans, and two dozen more Predator/Sicaran/Spartan/etc. variants before any kind of 'updated' SM for 30K. They don't even want to support the SM armor marks and upgrade kits they used to have.

I think it has more to do with FW being forced to become the Specialist Games Studio and needing the warehouse space to properly stock items for all those games, in addtion to everything FW was already doing. Plus, they did not kill popular kits. The things they removed were niche. I am sure they will rotate things back into production over time.

 Red_Five wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Except that GW will do it eventually when they learn they can make the HH community buy their armies all over again. Don't be surprised if Primaris come to HH some day.

Nah. Their business plan is all about selling expensive characters, vehicles, Titans, and other centerpiece models to 'whale' customers. We'll get 18 new versions of Primarchs, three new classes of Titans, and two dozen more Predator/Sicaran/Spartan/etc. variants before any kind of 'updated' SM for 30K. They don't even want to support the SM armor marks and upgrade kits they used to have.

I think it has more to do with FW being forced to become the Specialist Games Studio and needing the warehouse space to properly stock items for all those games, in addtion to everything FW was already doing. Plus, they did not kill popular kits. The things they removed were niche. I am sure they will rotate things back into production over time.

I imagine there's some truth to that regarding warehousing. Still, FW's focus for 30K seems pretty clearly to be on the 'big stuff'. And Mk.2 armor is hardly niche for 30K, right? This contrasts with GW, for which SM churn is very important.

robbienw wrote:
You will never get Primaris sized 30k marines, as Primaris are specifically larger in the fluff than standard space marines.

Some newer heresy marine models are slightly taller like the deathwatch/space marine heroes/new CSM sizing, that's probably the best you can hope for in 30k if you like oversized marine models.

Actual Primaris appearing in 30k is an absurd suggestion

Except that GW will do it eventually when they learn they can make the HH community buy their armies all over again. Don't be surprised if Primaris come to HH some day.

That won't make the HH community buy their armies all over again; it would just make them not buy anything again due to the fact it would be absurd. It would require wholesale retconning of the heresy fluff and all the 40k fluff on Primaris marines to artificially crowbar them in. I won't be surprised because it not going to happen

 gorgon wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Except that GW will do it eventually when they learn they can make the HH community buy their armies all over again. Don't be surprised if Primaris come to HH some day.

Nah. Their business plan is all about selling expensive characters, vehicles, Titans, and other centerpiece models to 'whale' customers. We'll get 18 new versions of Primarchs, three new classes of Titans, and two dozen more Predator/Sicaran/Spartan/etc. variants before any kind of 'updated' SM for 30K. They don't even want to support the SM armor marks and upgrade kits they used to have.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd be all for a couple of 'Great Crusade' era books - play all the Legions before things got dumb AND add in a bunch of Xenos?

Yes, please!

*BUZZ* Incorrect. The right answer was Unification Wars...Unification Wars.

Well, that'd be OK too - but not a lot of Xenos there?

But I'd bet there would be some hella awesome straight up weird gak on Terra at that time - that would be cool to see...

Maybe they could explore the time travel angle to introduce primaris marines to 30k. Like maybe Cawl utilizes some Necron technology to send Roboute Guilliman back in time to save the Emperor. So Guilliman has to find 30k Cawl and convince him that he's actually 40k Guilliman from the future and that they need to activate the Primaris marines like RIGHT NOW. Needless to say, shenanigans ensue. 40k Guilliman has to go to Macragge, defeat Curze and retrieve Sanguinius all while avoiding 30k Guilliman in some hilariously staged set pieces (why's Guilliman dressed as a woman???) and make their way back to Terra to get on board the Vengeful Spirit. It culminates with Guilliman climbing around in the rafters trying to drop those sand bags on Omegon and get the sports almanac back while Sanguinius duels Horus below!

Maybe, people could stop spamming the thread and actually discuss news and rumours rather than LOL style posts.

 Tamereth wrote:
We won't see primaries marines in the HH for the same reason we don't see Razorbacks, they didn't exist at the time.

When the Vindicator was introduced in 40k that went along with a background piece that placed its STC discovery a couple of decades after the Horus Heresy. Yet checking the Horus Heresy portion of Forge World's website reveals...

I don't honestly see Primaris Marines making an appearance in the Horus Heresy proper, but I don't think it's as simple as pointing to established background for ruling anything out. From the close enough Vindicator the the full retcon of Necrons, GW has proven without any doubt that they won't let existing background material get in the way of new material. Imagine the following:

GW is has remade 40k Marines into Primaris for whatever reasons, and want to bring their new favorites into the Horus Heresy. The foundation is laid in the Gathering Storm and Dark Imperium where as previously pointed out (thanks for that!) a hundred years after the Heresy they write Primaris or proto-Primaris into the background. Then they'll go and restructure the Horus Heresy from its narrow setting into the Age of Darkness, covering the Horus Heresy, the Scouring (to find a home for Primaris), and the Great Crusade (possibly with Unification Wars if they want to sell us Thunder Warriors, too). Nobody minded that in 40k you had ten thousand years of history and yet if you wanted to stay fluffy with your Tyranids, you couldn't set your games before 745M41. In the same way you could argue that while Primaris won't have a place in the Horus Heresy or the Great Crusade or even much of the Scouring, because the faction existed at one point in this rather large time span, the model line has a right to exist in the game. Which is all GW needs.

You could then argue that with their new, shiny redone with better proportions Marine army as a legit model line in the section, a company that boasts making the best toy soldiers in the world won't let second rate Marine models coexist with their Primaris. That opens the door for redone classic armors with better proportions akin to what Chaos Marines got in spring. Everyone's like, Mk.II is a staple of Crusade and Heresy army, so plenty of people are going to buy them. Of course they're in a new scale and people may not be happy with their old midget Mk.III and Mk.IV Marines anymore. Some will completely switch to new improved Mk.II, other don't like the scale difference, but that won't be a problem anymore once GW remakes the existing marks in the new scale as well. If you want to expand your army and can't stand differing scales in your army, you'll either rebuy larger parts of it or quit.

I could see GW go about things in this way. We're getting the Old World back and it's announced in such a way that suggests GW will commit considerable resources to it to make is successful. It's certainly seems to have worked out for them with Specialist Games. Now we have this rumor that promises a bright future for the Age of Darkness and I can't help but think this means GW has big plans for it, which to me suggests a considerable amount of plastic and, in this day an age of Primaris and better proportioned other models, not using subpar relics of the past as the poster boys of the setting and game.

 Red_Five wrote:

Cyrixiinus wrote:
The Chimera hull hasn't been discovered yet by 30k.

The Basalisk and the Medusa were widely used in the Heresy, both of which use the Chimera chassis.

That's a much argued point, as neither the Legion Medusa nor the Solar Auxilia Basilisk/Medusa are based on a Chimera.

 Geifer wrote:
When the Vindicator was introduced in 40k that went along with a background piece that placed its STC discovery a couple of decades after the Horus Heresy. Yet checking the Horus Heresy portion of Forge World's website reveals...

Lots of stuff used by the Legions was 'lost' during or after the Heresy, only to be rediscovered later on (although my headcanon is that Cawl had something to do with Centurion Warsuits).


Anyway, getting back on-topic - the next book is on it's way The Road to Thramas – Part 1: Wings of the Dark Angels. I like the plasma guys but they have a very silly name (Dreadwing Interemptors) and I dread to think how much they'll cost, and I'm undecided on the tank (Legion Arquitor Bombard) - but it does look like a Plagueburst Crawler.

beast_gts wrote:
I like the plasma guys but they have a very silly name (Dreadwing Interemptors)

Murderer (Latin)

I think people are being a bit too optimistic regarding plastic kits. Considering the cost of manufacturing new moulds for them, I can't see a great deal more being made for the HH.

 blood reaper wrote:
I think people are being a bit too optimistic regarding plastic kits. Considering the cost of manufacturing new moulds for them, I can't see a great deal more being made for the HH.

People need to remember that GW's entire plastics pipeline is in-house, including milling the molds. If they can afford to tool plastic molds for Ambots and Kal Jericho & Scabbs, they can afford to do it for the basic infantry of an entire game system/setting. Whether they will or not is another thing, but if they don't it won't be because of the cost to them.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I think people are being a bit too optimistic regarding plastic kits. Considering the cost of manufacturing new moulds for them, I can't see a great deal more being made for the HH.

People need to remember that GW's entire plastics pipeline is in-house, including milling the molds. If they can afford to tool plastic molds for Ambots and Kal Jericho & Scabbs, they can afford to do it for the basic infantry of an entire game system/setting. Whether they will or not is another thing, but if they don't it won't be because of the cost to them.

But there already are two different sets of plastic HH basic PA marines.