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 godardc wrote:
So maybe this Pharos stuff is dumb af if tyranids were already present in the galaxy ? Way to go, GW...
The tyranids should "hate" the Ultramarines wayyyy more than the Blood Angels and should have made more attempts to get Guilliman than the failed Behemoth assault. That's why you don't change a character / faction motive after 30 years of writing: inconsistencies.

the tyranids may have appered once or twice but it's possiable there was nothing of partiuclar intreast to them until the "lure" popped up

 godardc wrote:
So maybe this Pharos stuff is dumb af if tyranids were already present in the galaxy ? Way to go, GW...
The tyranids should "hate" the Ultramarines wayyyy more than the Blood Angels and should have made more attempts to get Guilliman than the failed Behemoth assault. That's why you don't change a character / faction motive after 30 years of writing: inconsistencies.

We don't know when/why the nids left the galaxy the first time, or if the ones still in the galaxy were just scouts. Either way the nids were unconscious out in deep space before pharos woke them back up.

As for hating the Ultramarines instead of the Blangels, it's two different hive tendrils attacking either of them.

Yeah but it's the same hive mind, Behemoth or Kraken or Leviathan, it's still the same. I like the BA v. Tyranid things, but it was already nicely done but the Ultramarines.
And I can't believe the tyranids coming into the Galaxy, seeing and tasting all its life, and what, forgetting about it ? Going into slumber after having discovered the Milky Way ? They were already there but after Pharos it took 10,000 years to come back ?

 godardc wrote:
Yeah but it's the same hive mind, Behemoth or Kraken or Leviathan, it's still the same. I like the BA v. Tyranid things, but it was already nicely done but the Ultramarines.
And I can't believe the tyranids coming into the Galaxy, seeing and tasting all its life, and what, forgetting about it ? Going into slumber after having discovered the Milky Way ? They were already there but after Pharos it took 10,000 years to come back ?

They may have been driven out during the age of strife. If they only sent in a small force, and saw nothing but warp storms and chaos nonsense, they probably would have just abandoned ship.

 godardc wrote:
Yeah but it's the same hive mind, Behemoth or Kraken or Leviathan, it's still the same. I like the BA v. Tyranid things, but it was already nicely done but the Ultramarines.
And I can't believe the tyranids coming into the Galaxy, seeing and tasting all its life, and what, forgetting about it ? Going into slumber after having discovered the Milky Way ? They were already there but after Pharos it took 10,000 years to come back ?

It could be Warp Storms sending a few fleets backwards in time or something.

I would guess that the lore about Tyranids being around before originates back when Nids used the Warp to travel so being in places they shouldn't makes more sense.

also everything we know about 'nids is "best guesses" and inferances, so they're a pretty retconnable race.

I don´t think that the fluff goes in that direction but to me kinda make sense that the hive mind is targeting baal.

The galaxy is divided into two sides. On one side there are the ultramarines, dark angles, space wolfs and almost all the successor chapters plus they are il.luminated by the light of the emperor coming from the segmentum solar. In the other half, there is not so much. Perhaps the only stronghold to protect the whole segmentum obscurus is Baal and it´s blood angels to defend the thousands of worlds overflowing with biomass from the other half of the galaxy.

Now suppose that you are a super smart xeno hive mind. If you have to choose to target one of those halves which would be the smartest ones to pick? And amongst all the worlds of the half that you have pick which will be the world that first, you need to take?

 godardc wrote:
So maybe this Pharos stuff is dumb af if tyranids were already present in the galaxy ? Way to go, GW...
The tyranids should "hate" the Ultramarines wayyyy more than the Blood Angels and should have made more attempts to get Guilliman than the failed Behemoth assault. That's why you don't change a character / faction motive after 30 years of writing: inconsistencies.

The warp makes things such that Tyranids could arrive before they left their previous location. That is before the possibility that the Tyranids which were already here had come from a different galaxy then those attracted by the Pharos.

psipso wrote:
I don´t think that the fluff goes in that direction but to me kinda make sense that the hive mind is targeting baal.

The galaxy is divided into two sides. On one side there are the ultramarines, dark angles, space wolfs and almost all the successor chapters plus they are il.luminated by the light of the emperor coming from the segmentum solar. In the other half, there is not so much. Perhaps the only stronghold to protect the whole segmentum obscurus is Baal and it´s blood angels to defend the thousands of worlds overflowing with biomass from the other half of the galaxy.

Now suppose that you are a super smart xeno hive mind. If you have to choose to target one of those halves which would be the smartest ones to pick? And amongst all the worlds of the half that you have pick which will be the world that first, you need to take?

But it's targeting everything. It isn't just picking one half, it's attacking everywhere it can. Same with planets, it goes where there's things to eat it doesn't pick and choose based on strategy.

pm713 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Yeah but it's the same hive mind, Behemoth or Kraken or Leviathan, it's still the same. I like the BA v. Tyranid things, but it was already nicely done but the Ultramarines.
And I can't believe the tyranids coming into the Galaxy, seeing and tasting all its life, and what, forgetting about it ? Going into slumber after having discovered the Milky Way ? They were already there but after Pharos it took 10,000 years to come back ?

It could be Warp Storms sending a few fleets backwards in time or something.

I would guess that the lore about Tyranids being around before originates back when Nids used the Warp to travel so being in places they shouldn't makes more sense.

The good old time when tyranids made sense too.
Sh*t I sound like a boomer and I'm only 25, it's crazy
But I fully accept warp shenanigans sending hive fleets in the past (during the valedor event for example) after they have been attracted by the Pharos.

 cole1114 wrote:
Yeah, they're after something on Baal itself. It's been implied a couple times now that Sanguinius and the Silent King fought the nids during the great crusade, so probably something related to that. Now that Mephiston has half of sanguinius's soul and the sanguinor the other half, maybe the nids are being drawn back towards their old enemy?

So the nids want to eat Sang to get his soul? It makes sense why they would want his body, Sang is the only stationary primarch, his body can be won through the kind of attrition warfare the tyrannids excel at, all the other primarchs can run away/be moved too easily. But are you saying they aren't so much after the DNA in his body as they are after his soul? Do the Nids even use souls? Does the hive mind itself evolve with the spiritual essence of the creatures it consumes?

 godardc wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Yeah but it's the same hive mind, Behemoth or Kraken or Leviathan, it's still the same. I like the BA v. Tyranid things, but it was already nicely done but the Ultramarines.
And I can't believe the tyranids coming into the Galaxy, seeing and tasting all its life, and what, forgetting about it ? Going into slumber after having discovered the Milky Way ? They were already there but after Pharos it took 10,000 years to come back ?

It could be Warp Storms sending a few fleets backwards in time or something.

I would guess that the lore about Tyranids being around before originates back when Nids used the Warp to travel so being in places they shouldn't makes more sense.

The good old time when tyranids made sense too.
Sh*t I sound like a boomer and I'm only 25, it's crazy
But I fully accept warp shenanigans sending hive fleets in the past (during the valedor event for example) after they have been attracted by the Pharos.

... ok boomer... *flees*

 Eipi10 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Yeah, they're after something on Baal itself. It's been implied a couple times now that Sanguinius and the Silent King fought the nids during the great crusade, so probably something related to that. Now that Mephiston has half of sanguinius's soul and the sanguinor the other half, maybe the nids are being drawn back towards their old enemy?

So the nids want to eat Sang to get his soul? It makes sense why they would want his body, Sang is the only stationary primarch, his body can be won through the kind of attrition warfare the tyrannids excel at, all the other primarchs can run away/be moved too easily. But are you saying they aren't so much after the DNA in his body as they are after his soul? Do the Nids even use souls? Does the hive mind itself evolve with the spiritual essence of the creatures it consumes?

That sounds really dumb to me. The only use for a soul is as a power source like Eldar or as food like Chaos. Neither of which is useful for Tyranids. The idea of grabbing Sangy for his genetic material makes much more sense although I doubt they could actually do it without GW just going PLOT.

Urgh. The levels of bad in what I have read just in this thread alone...

I am definitely staying in my own little bubble away from all this garbage.

 Da Boss wrote:
Urgh. The levels of bad in what I have read just in this thread alone...

I am definitely staying in my own little bubble away from all this garbage.

keep in mind most 40k stories when reduced to 2 sentence summeries kinda suck

Most stories sound pretty bad when heard in pieces of shorthand description. Doesn't matter if they are 40k or not.

And any true boomer would remember when the fluff currently being referenced as the 'good ole days' was new and hated. Nostalgia does funny things to memory.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Most stories sound pretty bad when heard in pieces of shorthand description. Doesn't matter if they are 40k or not.

And any true boomer would remember when the fluff currently being referenced as the 'good ole days' was new and hated. Nostalgia does funny things to memory.

Just for example..

"You know that Ring Bilbo found, yeah turns out it was an evil ring that an evil lod was trying to find so he could conquer the world, Bilbo's nephew had to walk across the world with a buncha people we've mostly never heard of and toss it in a volcano" - LOTR reduced to absurdity

Patriarch Phyrx wrote:

Voss wrote:

pm713 wrote:


Having missed the target, they contented themselves attacking the feral Tyranids who were suffering from the Synapse web being temporarily broken by the rift opening, so they were easy prey for the Daemons. They killed everything on the moon, and then had no means of getting off the moon and ran out of energy.

The Hive Fleet itself was a) battered by the rift opening, b) battered by the Blood Angels fleets, c) large chunks were sucked into the warp (and spat out elsewhere) and d) the Indomitus Crusade Fleet arrived and finished the survivors in space and on the ground. The rift caused massive time dilation. The majority of Devastation takes place as Cadia falls, but then the rift opens and puts the area in a time bubble so that when the rift passes after a couple of days 100+ years have passed elsewhere.

Have tyranids become mindless? As far as I remember, it was written there that the Rift destroyed the Hive Mind, but after a second it recovered.
Although the fact that Razlo destroyed Mind is very interesting. Perhaps it was the local Hive Mind of this fleet.

pm713 wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Yeah, they're after something on Baal itself. It's been implied a couple times now that Sanguinius and the Silent King fought the nids during the great crusade, so probably something related to that. Now that Mephiston has half of sanguinius's soul and the sanguinor the other half, maybe the nids are being drawn back towards their old enemy?

So the nids want to eat Sang to get his soul? It makes sense why they would want his body, Sang is the only stationary primarch, his body can be won through the kind of attrition warfare the tyrannids excel at, all the other primarchs can run away/be moved too easily. But are you saying they aren't so much after the DNA in his body as they are after his soul? Do the Nids even use souls? Does the hive mind itself evolve with the spiritual essence of the creatures it consumes?

That sounds really dumb to me. The only use for a soul is as a power source like Eldar or as food like Chaos. Neither of which is useful for Tyranids. The idea of grabbing Sangy for his genetic material makes much more sense although I doubt they could actually do it without GW just going PLOT.

I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm. I think the only questions are how fast GW wants to bring them back, its something they can only do once, and if a tyrannid invasion is cause enough for a Primarch to return, Gulliman came back with the fall of cadia, the other primarchs will need to have a similar event.

pm713 wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Yeah, they're after something on Baal itself. It's been implied a couple times now that Sanguinius and the Silent King fought the nids during the great crusade, so probably something related to that. Now that Mephiston has half of sanguinius's soul and the sanguinor the other half, maybe the nids are being drawn back towards their old enemy?

So the nids want to eat Sang to get his soul? It makes sense why they would want his body, Sang is the only stationary primarch, his body can be won through the kind of attrition warfare the tyrannids excel at, all the other primarchs can run away/be moved too easily. But are you saying they aren't so much after the DNA in his body as they are after his soul? Do the Nids even use souls? Does the hive mind itself evolve with the spiritual essence of the creatures it consumes?

That sounds really dumb to me. The only use for a soul is as a power source like Eldar or as food like Chaos. Neither of which is useful for Tyranids. The idea of grabbing Sangy for his genetic material makes much more sense although I doubt they could actually do it without GW just going PLOT.

The nids getting the black rage would probably be seen as a good thing to them.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Urgh. The levels of bad in what I have read just in this thread alone...

I am definitely staying in my own little bubble away from all this garbage.

keep in mind most 40k stories when reduced to 2 sentence summeries kinda suck

Some ideas are so bad in concept that no execution can save them, in my opinion.

 cole1114 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Yeah, they're after something on Baal itself. It's been implied a couple times now that Sanguinius and the Silent King fought the nids during the great crusade, so probably something related to that. Now that Mephiston has half of sanguinius's soul and the sanguinor the other half, maybe the nids are being drawn back towards their old enemy?

So the nids want to eat Sang to get his soul? It makes sense why they would want his body, Sang is the only stationary primarch, his body can be won through the kind of attrition warfare the tyrannids excel at, all the other primarchs can run away/be moved too easily. But are you saying they aren't so much after the DNA in his body as they are after his soul? Do the Nids even use souls? Does the hive mind itself evolve with the spiritual essence of the creatures it consumes?

That sounds really dumb to me. The only use for a soul is as a power source like Eldar or as food like Chaos. Neither of which is useful for Tyranids. The idea of grabbing Sangy for his genetic material makes much more sense although I doubt they could actually do it without GW just going PLOT.

The nids getting the black rage would probably be seen as a good thing to them.

I don't doubt getting Sanguinius would be good for the Tyranids, I just doubt they could actually do it without the BA needing to be stupid.

Eipi10 wrote: I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm.

There was actually quite a bit of the whole "they could come back in the future!" like nearly every Primarch has.

Guilliman's was "people claim that his wounds are healing even within stasis". Obviously, that wasn't how he came back, but the idea that there was no hints of him returning period aren't exactly accurate.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Eipi10 wrote: I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm.

There was actually quite a bit of the whole "they could come back in the future!" like nearly every Primarch has.

Guilliman's was "people claim that his wounds are healing even within stasis". Obviously, that wasn't how he came back, but the idea that there was no hints of him returning period aren't exactly accurate.

Yeah, most factions have a "break glass in case of future creative bankruptcy" button built in to their fluff.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Eipi10 wrote: I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm.

There was actually quite a bit of the whole "they could come back in the future!" like nearly every Primarch has.

Guilliman's was "people claim that his wounds are healing even within stasis". Obviously, that wasn't how he came back, but the idea that there was no hints of him returning period aren't exactly accurate.

There was nothing indicating that he would come back before any other primarch, he was where Russ, Khan, and the Lion were back in 2015. The could pull any one of those back without any warning.

 Eipi10 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Eipi10 wrote: I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm.

There was actually quite a bit of the whole "they could come back in the future!" like nearly every Primarch has.

Guilliman's was "people claim that his wounds are healing even within stasis". Obviously, that wasn't how he came back, but the idea that there was no hints of him returning period aren't exactly accurate.

There was nothing indicating that he would come back before any other primarch, he was where Russ, Khan, and the Lion were back in 2015. The could pull any one of those back without any warning.

Russ the Lion and the Khan would have been pointless to bring back. they would have generated excitement, sold a lot of models, and then... nothing. Gulliman however can actually make CHANGES

 Eipi10 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Eipi10 wrote: I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm.

There was actually quite a bit of the whole "they could come back in the future!" like nearly every Primarch has.

Guilliman's was "people claim that his wounds are healing even within stasis". Obviously, that wasn't how he came back, but the idea that there was no hints of him returning period aren't exactly accurate.

There was nothing indicating that he would come back before any other primarch, he was where Russ, Khan, and the Lion were back in 2015. The could pull any one of those back without any warning.

Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing with that. There was no sign that any of those Primarchs would be back before another. I was only pointing out that he definitely was hinted at having the potential to return, which you claimed there were no hints for.

Should it have been another Primarch? Perhaps, but I think Guillliman presented us with the least "warmongery" Primarchs, maybe barring Corax or Khan, that could have come back. Guilliman's crowning triumphs was his empire, and his ability to create relatively good worlds for people to live on. Him being greeting with everything he stood for in ruins and even his own legacy tattered was narratively interesting for me. But even if it shouldn't have been him, there was certainly the hints that it could have been.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Eipi10 wrote: I mean, they essentially did that with Gulliman didn't they? There was no hint that he would get revived until gathering storm.

There was actually quite a bit of the whole "they could come back in the future!" like nearly every Primarch has.

Guilliman's was "people claim that his wounds are healing even within stasis". Obviously, that wasn't how he came back, but the idea that there was no hints of him returning period aren't exactly accurate.

There was nothing indicating that he would come back before any other primarch, he was where Russ, Khan, and the Lion were back in 2015. The could pull any one of those back without any warning.

Russ the Lion and the Khan would have been pointless to bring back. they would have generated excitement, sold a lot of models, and then... nothing. Gulliman however can actually make CHANGES

There's not really a reason they couldn't make changes with Primarchs like the Khan and Russ. All the Primarchs are supposed geniuses and while they aren't as good as Guilliman all the Primarchs could try fixing the Imperium. Really you could have just as easily made a story of Russ returning, realising the Imperium needs changing in ways that can't be handled by stabbing things and struggling to actually do that.

pm713 wrote:
Really you could have just as easily made a story of Russ returning, realising the Imperium needs changing in ways that can't be handled by stabbing things and struggling to actually do that.

I'd like that a lot. Makes Russ change from a Thor kind of character to more of an Odin.

Of course, you'd still have people complaining that Russ should burn for being a heretic, but I think you'd get that for any Primarch.

Bottom line, for me, if a Primarch, any Primarch, were to come back, they'd need to lean into the "oh god, what has the Imperium become - is this even worth fighting for" aspect (which they did with Guilliman) instead of "PUNCH PUNCH SMASH SMASH NOTHING IS WRONG EVERYTHING IS UNIRONICALLY FINE" (which isn't what they did with Guilliman).

 cole1114 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
To just say "the Hive Mind hates BA and wants revenge" is to oversimplify motivations and feelings that were stated in no unclear terms to be beyond human comprehension. It is more of an analogy, or a re-phrasing of the matter in a way humans can understand.

There was some short story or review somewhere which implied that there was more to it though, that the Hive Mind wants something from Baal and/or Blood Angles. Something we do not have information on as of yet.

Yeah, they're after something on Baal itself. It's been implied a couple times now that Sanguinius and the Silent King fought the nids during the great crusade, so probably something related to that. Now that Mephiston has half of sanguinius's soul and the sanguinor the other half, maybe the nids are being drawn back towards their old enemy?

Wat. Why is sangys soul being divided between people instead of behaving like every other soul in existence?

Because Baal is horrible! Turns out every race to ever live there has been "split" that way, between a golden angelic aspect and a dark berserk aspect. When Sanguinius landed there he was connected to those aspects, and after he died the Sanguinor got the angelic aspect (and that half of Sanguinius's soul). Mephiston received the dark half while undergoing the rubicon, which means he has a whole THREE souls now!

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or if that's actually what GW have made up...

I am in no way joking. Also if Mephiston falls to the black rage, every blood angel will fall with him.

Wat?

Mephiston has conquered the black rage. That his literally his entire shtick and why he had the stats of a Vampire Lord. Is this GW forgetting their own fluff yet again?