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 ultimentra wrote:
I'll never understand why they continue to waste time on Horus Heresy. I can't imagine that they actually turn profit on that game, I literally have not seen it played in years.

I don’t imagine they’d be carrying on with it if it wasn’t profitable for them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
See, and I wonder how much of that is owed to the "ELVES DON'T USE HAMMERS!!11!" thinking of Warhammer days of old.

We didn't have people saying boo about White Lions during the later years, because it was just there for so long.

Oh my god I remember those chaps! Axe-evles!

To be fair, hammers'n'mallets are more associated with characters who "lift" or are brutal in general. Chaos warriors trying to cosplay Thulsa Doom's goons come to mind.

In all honesty, sometimes a design needs to go against the grain to be memorable. For example, the Seraphon could just be a bunch of reptiles running around just eating other races out of primal hunger but are actually quite classy - hints of star travel and all that jazz which not something one would immediately think of when imagining reptiles or dinosaurs. Then again, there are the Vistors of the tv show V...

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
I'll never understand why they continue to waste time on Horus Heresy. I can't imagine that they actually turn profit on that game, I literally have not seen it played in years.

I don’t imagine they’d be carrying on with it if it wasn’t profitable for them.

Ehh...GW proper isn't carrying on with it beyond the plastics that the boardgames came with.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
I'll never understand why they continue to waste time on Horus Heresy. I can't imagine that they actually turn profit on that game, I literally have not seen it played in years.

I don’t imagine they’d be carrying on with it if it wasn’t profitable for them.

Ehh...GW proper isn't carrying on with it beyond the plastics that the boardgames came with.

So? They were the only plastics they did for them anyway. They didn’t start as plastics and turf it off to Forge World. I can easily see it not being as profitable as it was at that point, but it must be doing well enough for them to keep the FW support.

 ultimentra wrote:
I'll never understand why they continue to waste time on Horus Heresy. I can't imagine that they actually turn profit on that game, I literally have not seen it played in years.

Horus Heresy could also include Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis, which I believe have been somewhat successful.

That's kind of what I'm referring to.

If it had been super profitable, I genuinely think they would have moved to it being a 'supported in stores' thing. As it stands, all those plastics are Direct Order items(the Mark IIIs aren't marked as such here in the US webstore, but they effectively are).

But even then, they didn't expand beyond that. No Solar Auxilia plastics, no Legion plastics, no vehicles beyond the Easy Build Contemptor.


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SamusDrake wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
I'll never understand why they continue to waste time on Horus Heresy. I can't imagine that they actually turn profit on that game, I literally have not seen it played in years.

Horus Heresy could also include Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis, which I believe have been somewhat successful.

And this is actually the best thing to take into consideration. Adeptus Titanicus is considered Horus Heresy right now. Aeronautica Imperialis isn't, but AT definitely is.

Another no-show for Kill Team unless it counts as 40K.

Beginning to wonder if GW are in the situation where they have to decide which sci-fi skirmish game to support; Kill Team or Necromunda. Necromunda and Warcry seem to be getting the model and book support while Kill Team seems to be an after thought...


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 Kanluwen wrote:
Adeptus Titanicus is considered Horus Heresy right now. Aeronautica Imperialis isn't, but AT definitely is.

That is a good point. I tend to lump those two games together, but AI certainly isn't Heresy era. My mistake.

Doesn't Kill Team use 40k models? Can't really give that game more model support then.

Edit: not really necessary.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
I'll never understand why they continue to waste time on Horus Heresy. I can't imagine that they actually turn profit on that game, I literally have not seen it played in years.

I don’t imagine they’d be carrying on with it if it wasn’t profitable for them.

Ehh...GW proper isn't carrying on with it beyond the plastics that the boardgames came with.

So? They were the only plastics they did for them anyway. They didn’t start as plastics and turf it off to Forge World. I can easily see it not being as profitable as it was at that point, but it must be doing well enough for them to keep the FW support.

30K has a small but devoted fanbase, but it's definitely not a product in any kind of state resembling growth mode. FW's support for 30K now looks a lot like their support for 40K from years ago...campaign books, special units, big models. Will be interesting to see if that continues or changes. I could see it going either way.

Glad to see they've confirmed which games are getting previewed - sensible step, which allows for people to tailor their expectations accordingly.

The following can be said to be off the table, then:
- Blood Bowl
- Aeronautica Imperialis
- Adeptus Titanicus
- Kill Team (?)
- Warhammer Quest/Blackstone Fortress

Am I missing any?

As noted above, AT is often listed under HH, so it's not necessarily going to be absent.

 Kanluwen wrote:
We didn't have people saying boo about White Lions during the later years, because it was just there for so long.

Depends on whether you're referring to the unit, or the chariots-pulled-by-lions I vaguely remember.

The unit of axe-wielding elves made a degree of sense as they were described as the High Elf equivalent of woodsmen, and a common trope for woodsmen is the use of axes. In a forest, they made more sense than spears or two-handed swords. The lion cloaks were an interesting touch for woodsmen, but pelts as a whole also fit the trope. And we were generally dealing with a unit (from one region) and a single special character - the unit, at least, was in WHFB since 4th edition, from memory.

High Elves with hammers - let alone cow-hats - would probably have raised an eyebrow. Not to mention gotten many a Dwarf to tug on their beard in consternation, while grumbling about grudges...

HH will really kick off once all the Firstborn get Squated back to 30k and Primaris have fully taken over 40k.

They said before the lockdown that there was something "massive" coming for HH, or "Something that everyone is going to love" or something like that.

AI is not under the HH banner so not sure where people are assuming that's on the docket? They need to unveil the Ramora drones and new ground assets, but we just got the Avenger reveal so wonder if that's still far off.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
We didn't have people saying boo about White Lions during the later years, because it was just there for so long.

Depends on whether you're referring to the unit, or the chariots-pulled-by-lions I vaguely remember.

The unit of axe-wielding elves made a degree of sense as they were described as the High Elf equivalent of woodsmen, and a common trope for woodsmen is the use of axes. In a forest, they made more sense than spears or two-handed swords. The lion cloaks were an interesting touch for woodsmen, but pelts as a whole also fit the trope. And we were generally dealing with a unit (from one region) and a single special character - the unit, at least, was in WHFB since 4th edition, from memory.

Unit, monster(in other media such as Total War, the Lions are fieldable by themselves), named character(and an option for other characters to take the cloak and an axe), and the chariot.

Don't forget though that while the 'High Elf equivalent of woodsmen'...that was generations previous to the ones we as players were fielding. Chracian Woodsmen were the people who saved somebody important waaaaay back when and then it remained the bodyguards for the Phoenix King forever and ever afterwards.

Which again comes to why I said what I said.

High Elves with hammers - let alone cow-hats - would probably have raised an eyebrow. Not to mention gotten many a Dwarf to tug on their beard in consternation, while grumbling about grudges...

I'd imagine there was likely grumbling about the axes too seeing as even the consummate woodsmen, the Wood Elves only have hatchets on their Waywatchers and Scouts back in the day. They weren't a 'signature item' for the unit or even really a weapon that I can recall, they were just an incidental thing that was used as their hand weapon.

Which ties it all back to, again, why I said what I said:
It's something new and different. There's lore involvement for it and we didn't get any of the other examples. River is supposed to be blinding fast with some kind of bladed weapon for their Temple 'signature weapon' that was used for slitting Orruk throats. Wind has mounted archers. Zenith is the 'unknown' at this point, beyond us hearing about Lumineth who can turn themselves into light or angelic beings of light.

If we'd gotten River and Wind at the same time? I'd imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth might have been tempered somewhat...but it still would have been there because, again, it's something new and different.

For myself, it's easy to accept. The idea of an animus for the elements just feels right for what they've described Teclis as trying to do(rebuild Hysh after the Spire Wars). The idea that these Aelves have taken up weapons that are similar to what the constructs they have for the animus works as well.

 Dysartes wrote:
Glad to see they've confirmed which games are getting previewed - sensible step, which allows for people to tailor their expectations accordingly.

The following can be said to be off the table, then:
- Blood Bowl
- Aeronautica Imperialis
- Adeptus Titanicus
- Kill Team (?)
- Warhammer Quest/Blackstone Fortress

Am I missing any?

Blood Bowl got spoiled by the Second Season Edition leak and was probably meant for this Preview (they did get those three videos out in short order afterwards).

 Prometheum5 wrote:
AI is not under the HH banner so not sure where people are assuming that's on the docket?

As posted previously, I do tend to make the mistake of lumping AT and AI together. By the looks of it, no I don't think AI will be mentioned next Saturday.


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Koveras wrote:
Doesn't Kill Team use 40k models? Can't really give that game more model support then.

Maybe not model support but there is always books...

...to throw at the other player when suspected of cheating!

 Dysartes wrote:
Glad to see they've confirmed which games are getting previewed - sensible step, which allows for people to tailor their expectations accordingly.

The following can be said to be off the table, then:
- Blood Bowl
- Aeronautica Imperialis
- Adeptus Titanicus
- Kill Team (?)
- Warhammer Quest/Blackstone Fortress

Am I missing any?

Middle-earth.

 Overread wrote:
To be fair we know what 40K is getting mostly up to October - Marines and Necrons. GW likely doesn't have all that much else to talk about until those two big releases are out of the door.

Aside from a host of yet unrevealed primairs models, including Heavy Intercessors, the new Captain, The landspeeder and the rumored vindicator replacement, as well as Hellfuries. Necrons also still have a couple of unrevealed models. My semi-local manager told me to keep an eye out in the coming months, he said "Eldar fans will be very happy." Whatever that means.


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SamusDrake wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
AI is not under the HH banner so not sure where people are assuming that's on the docket?

As posted previously, I do tend to make the mistake of lumping AT and AI together. By the looks of it, no I don't think AI will be mentioned next Saturday.


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Koveras wrote:
Doesn't Kill Team use 40k models? Can't really give that game more model support then.

Maybe not model support but there is always books...

...to throw at the other player when suspected of cheating!

You can give it model support. All of the rouge trader stuff was pretty much tailor made for KT and BSF.

Koveras wrote:
Doesn't Kill Team use 40k models? Can't really give that game more model support then.

There's always Kill Team: Fast Attack and Kill Team: Heavy Support.

Also maybe an opportunity to recycle and kick off a new box set, as the current one is kinda rubbish.

 Togusa wrote:
My semi-local manager told me to keep an eye out in the coming months, he said "Eldar fans will be very happy." Whatever that means.

Ah, sounds intriguing. So hope its new Warlocks and Reapers...

Voss wrote:

Koveras wrote:
Doesn't Kill Team use 40k models? Can't really give that game more model support then.

There's always Kill Team: Fast Attack and Kill Team: Heavy Support.

Also maybe an opportunity to recycle and kick off a new box set, as the current one is kinda rubbish.

More likely than not if anything's going to happen on that front, it would be a replacement of the Rogue Trader set: a new, self-contained 'set' that introduces a new mechanic(Rogue Trader brought Commanders in) with two Kill Teams people would go ape over.


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SamusDrake wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
My semi-local manager told me to keep an eye out in the coming months, he said "Eldar fans will be very happy." Whatever that means.

Ah, sounds intriguing. So hope its new Warlocks and Reapers...

I'd imagine if it's going to be anything, it would be Jes Goodwin announcing it...

 Kanluwen wrote:

Voss wrote:

Koveras wrote:
Doesn't Kill Team use 40k models? Can't really give that game more model support then.

There's always Kill Team: Fast Attack and Kill Team: Heavy Support.

Also maybe an opportunity to recycle and kick off a new box set, as the current one is kinda rubbish.

More likely than not if anything's going to happen on that front, it would be a replacement of the Rogue Trader set: a new, self-contained 'set' that introduces a new mechanic(Rogue Trader brought Commanders in) with two Kill Teams people would go ape over.

It could also be as simple as the 2020 Kill Team Annual...

I feel like GW left Kill-Team out to dry after Rogue Trader, presumably, didn't do too well. That we never saw an Inquisition expansion always tilted me as a bit strange and perhaps what they were saving Daemons for until they crammed them into White Dwarf a while later. Another 'edition' of it seems more likely at this point, but I suspect they'll want to tout 40k 'Combat Patrol' (500pts) as the new entry point for a while.

Underworlds' new season isn't until December so it feels a little early to be seeing that, but on the other hand August is when we got Nightvault/Beastgrave last time so maybe they'll reveal it early.

Aeronautica Imperialis is probably dead considering it largely seems to have been a flop and has no showing at this event, but then again I know none who played War Cry and it's still getting support so what do I know.

War Cry's got the Shadow Witch Elf warband and maybe we'll see another non-Chaos warband shown off, since it seems weird to preview what we've already seen.

Horus Heresy is presumably Titanicus. Could be a small preview of the next black book since Dark Mechanicum were cut out of Crusade.

Necromunda's definitely the Orlock stuff (House of Iron).

SamusDrake wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
My semi-local manager told me to keep an eye out in the coming months, he said "Eldar fans will be very happy." Whatever that means.

Ah, sounds intriguing. So hope its new Warlocks and Reapers...

They already teased a new Lelith.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I feel like GW left Kill-Team out to dry after Rogue Trader, presumably, didn't do too well. That we never saw an Inquisition expansion always tilted me as a bit strange and perhaps what they were saving Daemons for until they crammed them into White Dwarf a while later. Another 'edition' of it seems more likely at this point, but I suspect they'll want to tout 40k 'Combat Patrol' (500pts) as the new entry point for a while.

Underworlds' new season isn't until December so it feels a little early to be seeing that, but on the other hand August is when we got Nightvault/Beastgrave last time so maybe they'll reveal it early.

Aeronautica Imperialis is probably dead considering it largely seems to have been a flop and has no showing at this event, but then again I know none who played War Cry and it's still getting support so what do I know.

War Cry's got the Shadow Witch Elf warband and maybe we'll see another non-Chaos warband shown off, since it seems weird to preview what we've already seen.

Horus Heresy is presumably Titanicus. Could be a small preview of the next black book since Dark Mechanicum were cut out of Crusade.

Necromunda's definitely the Orlock stuff (House of Iron).

Yeah, Kill Team was a huge missed opportunity to do things like Inquisition, Arbites, Eldar Corsairs, etc. Small, flavorful factions that you wouldn’t necessarily see in a large scale battle. I don’t think it helped that is one of the most awkward skirmish games on the market rules wise. I was super stoked to play it until I played a few games and they just dragged on and on. At this point I think the game is dead and may continue getting a few WD articles a year but otherwise be a non-factor. I think GW is definitely going to push combat patrol instead.

Underworlds I could see them show off the new starter. I hope they don’t do one of the “silhouette previews” like they did with beastgrave or show off the multiplayer expansion. I’d like to see some new models. I’m guess the new starter will be the goofy skeleton golems vs. Deepkin or Chaos Warriors.

AI doesn’t seem to have done very well from what I’ve seen, which is a shame as the game is pretty fun. Warcry is definitely a different story in my neck of the woods, before Covid every local shop I have been to that does Minis was running a league and getting 8Ish-20ish
players a night. That’s at least 5 stores, and I know of a few others that had them. Lots of people seem to play it at home too (that’s mainly where I play it- it’s a great kitchen table beer and pretzels type game with buddies). I think we’ll see the full preview of the Shadow Elves and maybe another non-Chaos warband.

I think you are right on Heresy and Necromunda also.

It’s a shame about AI. I wanted to get into that game since it was a Forgeworld property...but not enough to deal with Forgeworld.

Sadly, I couldn’t justify the prices of the new AI. I was expecting it to be sold more like X-Wing, since it was supposed to compete with X-Wing. But X-Wing doesn’t force you to buy two X-Wings at a time when you want an X-wing. (And it’s fun to say X-wing.) Also, one can buy a lot of great fighters in that game, and like 2 types of fighters that aren’t embarrassing in AI. It’s like GW thought market research was otiose for the market they were trying to break into.

I don't think Killteam is the right place for minor factions to appear. The whole marketing idea of Killteam is that its the smaller 40K game that allows a potential customer to buy into it very cheaply and start playing games. When one or two boxes of models, a modest rule book and some tools/dice is all they need to get started and play.

Then to allow them to expand their army with single purchases of boxes of models. The whole intent being that they slow-grow enough models to start 500 and 1K point battles in full 40K.


As such you can't really introduce a single band of Corsairs or such. A single box isn't leading anywhere into a full proper army for GW. Instead those kind of things are what we've seen appear in Warhammer Quest Blackstone Fortress. A side game that, whilst it has some rules for 40K as an option, is fully its own thing for hte most part. It's the best place to put a handful of models that GW isn't planning on making into a full army experience. It's not part of its marketing, design nor intent.

Just like how in Age of Sigmar the Warcry Warbands are full army units that expand into full armies; whilst Underworlds has several (Dark Oath, Kurnothi) that don't have any direct army expansion as such. Yes they fit into regular AoS armies - and Dark Oath sort of did make a start at appearing, but then after 2 leaders vanished (and very oddly didn't' get a Warcry Warband even though they share most of the visual designs including the whole belt buckle icons).


I'm all for SIDE games that add minor factions without any pressure for GW to expand them into full armies; so long as that approach is kept very clear. As soon as GW starts putting minor factions that won't expand into a fully arm into something like Killteam; then they are confusing the market that they are marketing toward. Both new gamers and established.