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Tyel wrote:
I don't think it's a scam in any legal sense, but yeah, PA felt like a cash-grab, and its relevancy is likely to be very little.
Its also doubled-down on that due to the global situation. I feel if you'd enjoyed the books for 9 months or so, then its *short* but at least its something, if you are the sort of person who would be playing every week or two.
Obviously if you bought the books in March/May, played essentially no games over the last 6 months, and now its borderline-void, then you are going to feel ripped off.

Basically, this. We're going round in circles as to whether anyone would have a legal case (spoiler alert: you wouldn't), and/or whether it's a suitable business practice, but is anyone here not convinced that it's morally wrong to inflict on the playerbase?

No no, see, anything a corporation does that makes money is moral, for making money is the only judge of morality. More money means you are betgter, and corporations have more money than almost any individual, so they are much much better.

it's in a bible somewhere.

stratigo wrote:
No no, see, anything a corporation does that makes money is moral, for making money is the only judge of morality. More money means you are betgter, and corporations have more money than almost any individual, so they are much much better.

it's in a bible somewhere.

I'm sure it's in the bible used in the church of Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption (Yes, it was technically a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Perpetual_Exemption). You seem to know her teachings quite well. ;P

 CEO Kasen wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
Digital collections of rules offered for a massively reduced price, if not free, that update according to FAQs and errata from a central server, and divorced from massive hardbacks of beautiful but thoroughly unnecessary artwork, lore and studio model pictures when you just want an arrangement of text telling you how to play the damn game.

I'm playing devil's advocate and say that this is what GW is doing with the new codices, isn't it? You buy your codex and get a "free/discounted" digital version on top. This digital version could get updates and erratas incorporated directly into it. Wether that is going to happen, we have to see after the new books are out.

Ah, but there is no sanctioned way to get just the digital version of the rules alone, for a price far more reasonable than the asking one (and here I'm thinking like $10 USD tops) or for no cost.

GW has never sold digtal publications for 10 bucks.. nor does anyone else for that matter, most PDF gaming books go for at LEAST 15

a_typical_hero wrote:

nekooni wrote:
If Sony told me that these PS4 games will be compatible with the PS5 and then turned the compatibility features in the PS5 off 2 months after releasing the PS5, that'd be false advertising.

But the compatibility is not being turned off. You can still start your game. If the remastered edition of the game comes out half a year later to take advantage of the new hardware, you can keep playing the PS4 version. Multiplayer is still working, too. Most people will just move on to the new version of the game, so you might have to rendevouz with your mates or wait longer to find a match.

And if Sony told everyone that of course they should buy the "compatible version" , and after the console was released told them that there would be an enhanced edition and that you couldn't upgrade your recently bought "compatible" version , people would rightfully be angry and iirc an indie dev studio did something very similar just recently and got into hot waters for it.

Neither that not what GW did is likely to be illegal ,but it's still a dick move

BrianDavion wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
Digital collections of rules offered for a massively reduced price, if not free, that update according to FAQs and errata from a central server, and divorced from massive hardbacks of beautiful but thoroughly unnecessary artwork, lore and studio model pictures when you just want an arrangement of text telling you how to play the damn game.

I'm playing devil's advocate and say that this is what GW is doing with the new codices, isn't it? You buy your codex and get a "free/discounted" digital version on top. This digital version could get updates and erratas incorporated directly into it. Wether that is going to happen, we have to see after the new books are out.

Ah, but there is no sanctioned way to get just the digital version of the rules alone, for a price far more reasonable than the asking one (and here I'm thinking like $10 USD tops) or for no cost.

GW has never sold digtal publications for 10 bucks.. nor does anyone else for that matter, most PDF gaming books go for at LEAST 15

What if I told you there is a thriving pay-what-you-want scene in indie roleplaying publishing with platforms like DriveThroughRPG and their like

Granted, most of that uses way less art and other ancillary costs that come by having a large firm, but still.

 Sherrypie wrote:


What if I told you there is a thriving pay-what-you-want scene in indie roleplaying publishing with platforms like DriveThroughRPG and their like

Granted, most of that uses way less art and other ancillary costs that come by having a large firm, but still.

That's true, but, as you suggested, the production values are generally pretty amateurish (mediocre art, bad formatting, no bookmarks etc).

You have other examples like FFG who didn't make any digital version available for their extensive Star Wars RPG line, but did for their 40K stuff, which I recall was about £25 per PDF.

 harlokin wrote:

You have other examples like FFG who didn't make any digital version available for their extensive Star Wars RPG line, but did for their 40K stuff, which I recall was about £25 per PDF.

which was because of the SW Licence which only allowed them for printed books

 kodos wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

You have other examples like FFG who didn't make any digital version available for their extensive Star Wars RPG line, but did for their 40K stuff, which I recall was about £25 per PDF.

which was because of the SW Licence which only allowed them for printed books

Yes, initially. But they subsequently made no effort to get even a limited electronic license because it was not a priority, and because digital books are still seen by a large portion of the industry (wrongly IMO) as an invitation to piracy.

Ice_can wrote:
2. If you are refering to a lot of stuff from the time of the British empire that a political charge subject but short version is as much as poeple want to claim everything was stole or taken without consent, most of it was bought/sold. The authority of the person who sold the item to do so when it comes to the sale of historical artefact in history is a complex subject as many of the country's have had atleast 1 system of rule change & sometimes multiple systems of rule since that time.

"But, good sir, I've paid for this stolen item. Surely, it can no longer be considered stolen if I've paid for it now, can it?" -English Imperialism

 harlokin wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

You have other examples like FFG who didn't make any digital version available for their extensive Star Wars RPG line, but did for their 40K stuff, which I recall was about £25 per PDF.

which was because of the SW Licence which only allowed them for printed books

Yes, initially. But they subsequently made no effort to get even a limited electronic license because it was not a priority, and because digital books are still seen by a large portion of the industry (wrongly IMO) as an invitation to piracy.

More so than people scanning paper books?

 harlokin wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

You have other examples like FFG who didn't make any digital version available for their extensive Star Wars RPG line, but did for their 40K stuff, which I recall was about £25 per PDF.

which was because of the SW Licence which only allowed them for printed books

Yes, initially. But they subsequently made no effort to get even a limited electronic license because it was not a priority, and because digital books are still seen by a large portion of the industry (wrongly IMO) as an invitation to piracy.

FFG wasn't the first for that though, WOTC never did digtal SW RPG stuff eaither, and they where a much larger company who one would imagine would be more capable of making such negotiations (especially as they didn't have to speak with the Mouse whentey had the lisence)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

You have other examples like FFG who didn't make any digital version available for their extensive Star Wars RPG line, but did for their 40K stuff, which I recall was about £25 per PDF.

which was because of the SW Licence which only allowed them for printed books

Yes, initially. But they subsequently made no effort to get even a limited electronic license because it was not a priority, and because digital books are still seen by a large portion of the industry (wrongly IMO) as an invitation to piracy.

More so than people scanning paper books?

I guess so. As I said, I don't agree, but the piracy argument is raised regularly, and I suspect that GW feels similarly.

The quality of pirated RPG books varies considerably, and scanned books certainly tend to be at the lower end of quality.

 skchsan wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
2. If you are refering to a lot of stuff from the time of the British empire that a political charge subject but short version is as much as poeple want to claim everything was stole or taken without consent, most of it was bought/sold. The authority of the person who sold the item to do so when it comes to the sale of historical artefact in history is a complex subject as many of the country's have had atleast 1 system of rule change & sometimes multiple systems of rule since that time.

"But, good sir, I've paid for this stolen item. Surely, it can no longer be considered stolen if I've paid for it now, can it?" -English Imperialism

More like Country ruled by sultan or such title person, takes gold/weapons whatever for whatever it is that someone wanted.
Now the royal family has been expelled or executed and they now "we want our cultural heritage" back for free at your cost.

How has a troll post reached 3 pages already?

Dudeface wrote:
How has a troll post reached 3 pages already?

I'm going to assume you're not familiar with BCB or their posting history.

Dudeface wrote:
How has a troll post reached 3 pages already?

Whats trolling about complaining about how fething gakky they handled Psychic Awakening?

Didn't you renounce the game because of your **** politics, BCB? Why do you care so much?

 harlokin wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:


What if I told you there is a thriving pay-what-you-want scene in indie roleplaying publishing with platforms like DriveThroughRPG and their like

Granted, most of that uses way less art and other ancillary costs that come by having a large firm, but still.

That's true, but, as you suggested, the production values are generally pretty amateurish (mediocre art, bad formatting, no bookmarks etc).

That's fine, and kind of my point: I'd rather have the option to not pay for the art or production value. I'd like just an option to have the rules, and the rules alone, in a digital, updating format without paying staggering amounts of cash.

$50 might not be completely insane if you only ever had to buy one codex to know all the rules, but most players are not going to care about the full backstory of every army in the game and just want to know what their opponents can do. There are a staggering number of armies in the game, and to have true license to know all the rules at $50 a codex... There are, just off the top of my head and at a lowball estimate, 24 or so armies, 4 being reduced to supplements, plus what will now be 10 Marine supplements - and the Supplements are $30, so that's $1300 right there. This doesn't count Chapter Approved, Vigilus Ablaze, Psychic Awakening, issues of White Dwarf, or any other add-ons. In the current era, this pricing is complete [i]madness[i] for basic information that is updated more reliably from 3rd-party free sources at zero cost.

Ideally, the App should be this go-to for up-to-the-minute 40K data, but between its bugginess and pricing model there is no way it can be when Waha and Battlescribe exist.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Didn't you renounce the game because of your **** politics, BCB? Why do you care so much?

BCB's "hobby" if you can call it that it nitpicking GW.