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 Grimskul wrote:
Seeing both OG doc ock and Green Goblin from the Sam Raimi movies is really good, hope they're more than just cameos. They have no reason to not include dancing Tobey now.

That was great, but Dr Strange mucking up the nature of universe just because Peter asked him to seems a little off character?

 Jadenim wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Seeing both OG doc ock and Green Goblin from the Sam Raimi movies is really good, hope they're more than just cameos. They have no reason to not include dancing Tobey now.

That was great, but Dr Strange mucking up the nature of universe just because Peter asked him to seems a little off character?

That’s because he’s actually Mephisto. I mean they even have a dude in the trailer holding a devil in disguise sign. The clues are all there.

The Dr Strange who broke his hands racing a car, "spends money as soon as he gets it", barges about a hospital like he owns the place and annoys basically everyone because he's arrogant as hell?

I mean, he's clever, he takes his "Do no harm" vow pretty seriously, and he's definitely on the side of saving the universe. But doing something a bit daft because he wants to and thinks he can get away with it? Yeah, that fits.

Also has the interesting effect that he might not be quite as annoyed with Wanda as people had previously thought...

 Graphite wrote:
The Dr Strange who broke his hands racing a car, "spends money as soon as he gets it", barges about a hospital like he owns the place and annoys basically everyone because he's arrogant as hell?

I mean, he's clever, he takes his "Do no harm" vow pretty seriously, and he's definitely on the side of saving the universe. But doing something a bit daft because he wants to and thinks he can get away with it? Yeah, that fits.

Also has the interesting effect that he might not be quite as annoyed with Wanda as people had previously thought...

He used to be like that, but that was kind of the point of his whole film, he learned not to be. And certainly in Infinity War/End Game he is much more serious, to the point of being willing to let a lot of people die to avoid risking someone misusing the time stone.

 AduroT wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Seeing both OG doc ock and Green Goblin from the Sam Raimi movies is really good, hope they're more than just cameos. They have no reason to not include dancing Tobey now.

That was great, but Dr Strange mucking up the nature of universe just because Peter asked him to seems a little off character?

That’s because he’s actually Mephisto. I mean they even have a dude in the trailer holding a devil in disguise sign. The clues are all there.

I really hope not as I don't think another...it was Mephisto all along is needed, plus sticking essentially the devil (the sorts that'll get fuppy about it dont do nuance) in a big film seems unwise

Otherwise looks interesting

 Jadenim wrote:

 Graphite wrote:
The Dr Strange who broke his hands racing a car, "spends money as soon as he gets it", barges about a hospital like he owns the place and annoys basically everyone because he's arrogant as hell?

I mean, he's clever, he takes his "Do no harm" vow pretty seriously, and he's definitely on the side of saving the universe. But doing something a bit daft because he wants to and thinks he can get away with it? Yeah, that fits.

Also has the interesting effect that he might not be quite as annoyed with Wanda as people had previously thought...

He used to be like that, but that was kind of the point of his whole film, he learned not to be. And certainly in Infinity War/End Game he is much more serious, to the point of being willing to let a lot of people die to avoid risking someone misusing the time stone.

Eh. In Infinity War / Endgame, everyone outside the main characters had to be what the plot demanded rather. The movies were bloody long already without giving everyone loads of Character Development.

And in Doctor Strange he saved the world by breaking the rules, which is why Mordo is annoyed with him. What he learned was that it was better to use his magic to help others rather than himself (since he originally set out looking for a cure for nerve damage). For a guy who's already a surgeon that's not a particularly big leap.

I am all for anything that has Alfred Molina in it.....

It also kinda feels like the spell changes Dr. Strange somehow too? Like he becomes a much bigger jerk in the second half of the trailer than the first half.

 Easy E wrote:
I am all for anything that has Alfred Molina in it.....

It also kinda feels like the spell changes Dr. Strange somehow too? Like he becomes a much bigger jerk in the second half of the trailer than the first half.

He’s probably part of the everyone in the world who forgets he’s Peter.

 AduroT wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I am all for anything that has Alfred Molina in it.....

It also kinda feels like the spell changes Dr. Strange somehow too? Like he becomes a much bigger jerk in the second half of the trailer than the first half.

He’s probably part of the everyone in the world who forgets he’s Peter.

That was exactly the same thought I had. Cast the spell, and then all of a sudden, "Who are you!?"

I'm guessing they wanted to hold off on the trailer till after Loki so they could lay multiverse groundwork down.

One More Day was such a well loved and popular story line I'm glad to see them adapt it to the MCU.

 Ahtman wrote:
One More Day was such a well loved and popular story line I'm glad to see them adapt it to the MCU.

Yeah but it needed more clones

Always felt that Holland and Maguire both captured the Ditko style Spiderman well in my eye.

To be fair it doesn't look like strange was fething up. It looks like Peter fethed it up for strange by rambling his way through the spell.

Also, this just confirms rumors. A lot of people are going to be in this movie. Including possibly Netflix Daredevil.

Well. That just killed MY interest in it.

The whole plotline is silly. Between SHIELD and Stark Industries these charges go by-by in less time that it takes to file them in the first place. The public outcry is fixed by having an empty Spider-Armor grab Peter Parker publicly and leave him dangling off a lamppost or something. Problem solved in the first ten minutes; move on. It's certainly not worth dedicating a whole film to.

If the "Strange" casting the spell for Peter is an imposter...where's the real Strange?

Might be him "under the influence" so to speak. Or he's in another part of the multiverse that the imposter previously occupied, or he's knocked out and tied up in the broom cupboard.

Lots of options.

It did occur to me that after the end of Loki, things have already changed…

 Lance845 wrote:
To be fair it doesn't look like strange was fething up. It looks like Peter fethed it up for strange by rambling his way through the spell.

Also, this just confirms rumors. A lot of people are going to be in this movie. Including possibly Netflix Daredevil.

It'd be nice to get a Spider-Man movie that wasn't a guest-star fest.

Is it required as part of the Sony-Disney deal, or are they just scared to give Tom Holland his own movie, a la Chris Evans?

 gorgon wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
To be fair it doesn't look like strange was fething up. It looks like Peter fethed it up for strange by rambling his way through the spell.

Also, this just confirms rumors. A lot of people are going to be in this movie. Including possibly Netflix Daredevil.

It'd be nice to get a Spider-Man movie that wasn't a guest-star fest.

Is it required as part of the Sony-Disney deal, or are they just scared to give Tom Holland his own movie, a la Chris Evans?

Probably more of the former. Both sides have more of a stake in the film if it contains characters they have the rights to. A solo Spiderman movie with Spiderman villains is entirely a Sony movie.
At that point they don't need a deal at all (which makes me wonder what the deal is, that these films have become collaborative).

Has anybody significant other than RDJ appeared in any of the Sony Holland films from the broader MCU so far?

Honest question as I'm struggling to think of any, which would make "guest star fest" a little bit if a misnomer.

Unless you mean casting known actors as some of the villains, which is just movie making.

Happy (Favreau) plays a pretty big part in Spidey movies and is indeed seen in the trailer for this one.

I can only recall Happy, Hill and Fury

Hill and Fury were not actually Hill or Fury also.

Dr. Strange and Spidy have done a TON of team ups in the comics. They get along really well on the regular. If this is a slight adaptation of One More Day (in the same way that Iron Man 2 was "kind of" a adaptation of Demon in a Bottle) then Dr Strange makes WAY more sense then Mephisto ::rolls eyes::.

What's important isn't whether the bigger Marvel universe is around and thus in the movie (thats all fine). It's does Holland get stuff done. Spidy took out Vulture without help. Spidy dealt with Mysterio only getting a new REALLY basic suit out of the supporting cast.

I don't think Strange is going to be in the battle against Doc Oct and Green Goblin. Probably will be too busy holding the multiverse together... or apart.

 Easy E wrote:
Happy (Favreau) plays a pretty big part in Spidey movies and is indeed seen in the trailer for this one.

Absolutely, but a minor character in the MCU played by someone who's more often behind the camera these days and hasn't really ever been a box office A lister doesn't really qualify as someone you'd bring in because you were scared of the main actor carrying the movie by themselves.

I can see the argument that for the Evans Cap films (First Avenger aside maybe) he had some heavyweights holding his hand, but I think this is more a symptom of Holland being in some of the big Disney MCU films, rather than his own films where he's by and large flown solo. Plus given how the MCU developed Tony and Peter's relationship, it might have felt odd if Iron Man didn't crop up in the Sony films.

Okay, so let me define "guest-star fest" this way -- No Way Home in terms of apparent quantity of guest appearance and easter eggs, and Homecoming and Far From Home in more qualitative terms...i.e. putting Spider-Man in Iron Man's shadow. RDJ was barely in Far From Home, but the movie was a lot about Tony Stark and Peter's relationship with him. Who needs Uncle Ben as an inspiration, anyway? That guy never made one wisecrack!

I can anticipate most of the arguments that are about to come my way. But the fact is I'm much more of a fan of Marvel comics than the MCU and I don't like how the MCU was more or less the IMCU. I'll be the first to admit that RDJ put the whole franchise on his back in the early going. But I feel that they continued to make it too much about Tony Stark, and that other characters suffered as a result.

I know that shoehorning RDJ into films to boost the BO is really just classic Hollywood filmmaking. And yet because they leaned on him SO much, I think the next phase will be very interesting for Marvel. I think the returns will probably be fine, but I'm not 100% certain they'll be able to stay away from the BO crack named RDJ.

In fact, setting Happy up as Tony's go between may have been a conscious attempt to keep RDJ down to a minimum to avoid stealing focus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:
Okay, so let me define "guest-star fest" this way -- No Way Home in terms of apparent quantity of guest appearance and easter eggs, and Homecoming and Far From Home in more qualitative terms...i.e. putting Spider-Man in Iron Man's shadow. RDJ was barely in Far From Home, but the movie was a lot about Tony Stark and Peter's relationship with him. Who needs Uncle Ben as an inspiration, anyway? That guy never made one wisecrack!

I can anticipate most of the arguments that are about to come my way. But the fact is I'm much more of a fan of Marvel comics than the MCU and I don't like how the MCU was more or less the IMCU. I'll be the first to admit that RDJ put the whole franchise on his back in the early going. But I feel that they continued to make it too much about Tony Stark, and that other characters suffered as a result.

I know that shoehorning RDJ into films to boost the BO is really just classic Hollywood filmmaking. And yet because they leaned on him SO much, I think the next phase will be very interesting for Marvel. I think the returns will probably be fine, but I'm not 100% certain they'll be able to stay away from the BO crack named RDJ.

That's a weird definition of guest star anything. What it seems like you don't like are some of the narrative and world building choices, which of course is fine, but not really what you said initially.

If I was a betting man (yep still sore about the footy...) I'd wager RDJ may well be voicing Ironhearts suit

Well, here is my take on this next big story of the MCU.

We got this big multiverse phase. Were gunna get Kangs all over the place. We have multiverse of Madness. We have these multiple Spidermans.

But this is just phase 4.

The next Thanos is going to be the Beyonder building Battleworld. But not the original Secret Wars Battleworld, the Doom version made of fragments of the multiverse. And the final boss of this whole fiasco is going to be God Emperor Doom.

So sit back guys. All these Mutiverse seeds and movies. It's all preamble to smash them all together for a massive fight with mutants, fantastic four, Sokovia Acords Avengers, young Avengers, Moonknights and She Hulks etc etc... Which is pobably a great opportunity to recast Steve Rogers and Tony Stark and drop new versions of them into the core universe in the aftermath of the great multiversal battle that is to come.

I honestly don't see Tony being recast for a long, long time. In-universe rationalisations aside, which would be easy to come by, what actor is going to try and follow RDJ in the role until he's long forgotten?