Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'll just let people reading the thread make their own decisions I think.

Yeah. That might be for the best. I'm not a fan of changing characters to suit the perceived target audience of a movie, regardless of what is being changed. And, frankly, some of the story lines wouldn't make as much sense with this change. It would be an amazing choice for the Girl who Would be Death, but a terrible one for At Death’s Door or The High Cost of Living.

And a recast just makes gak even more of a mess.

Can it be about her skin color without being about her race? I really rather like the aesthetic contrast between her black clothing and white skin, and I mean stark White, not Caucasian.

 AduroT wrote:
Can it be about her skin color without being about her race? I really rather like the aesthetic contrast between her black clothing and white skin, and I mean stark White, not Caucasian.

You'll get people saying it is anyway. 'White face' arguments ahoy! But the other aspect is that the makeup just looks terrible if you try to get that stark white look without having a lighter skin tone under it. One of the better compromises I've seen was using metallic gold for a sort of pseudo-Egyptian approach, but there's all sorts of baggage with that if they go that route.

Unfortunately it looks like people are getting to Neil (on Twitter):

Neil Gaiman wrote:

Woke wrote:Why sell out? Just stand by your work or do you lack the intestinal fortitude? It irks me more that you just don’t even give a feth.

I give all the feths about the work. I spent 30 years successfully battling bad movies of Sandman.
I give zero feths about people who don't understand/ haven't read Sandman whining about a non-binary Desire or that Death isn't white enough. Watch the show, make up your minds.

beast_gts wrote:
Unfortunately it looks like people are getting to Neil (on Twitter):

Neil Gaiman wrote:

Woke wrote:Why sell out? Just stand by your work or do you lack the intestinal fortitude? It irks me more that you just don’t even give a feth.

I give all the feths about the work. I spent 30 years successfully battling bad movies of Sandman.
I give zero feths about people who don't understand/ haven't read Sandman whining about a non-binary Desire or that Death isn't white enough. Watch the show, make up your minds.

Seems a bit of a panto. he knew what would happen and I thought he'd be smart enough not to feed the trolls...(but buzz is buzz I guess)

People can only take so much abuse before they feel the need to do something about it I guess. Can’t be a perfect social media-ist all the time, hence the platform is so dangerous.

I give all the feths about the work. I spent 30 years successfully battling bad movies of Sandman.

Including ones he, himself, was going to write and direct. Gaiman is neither the showrunner nor writer on this, so God alone knows what we'll actually get.

Reviewing this, there are more parts that will make less sense (having gone back and re-read Preludes last night) with some of the casting choices. Constantine's entire involvement would require extensive re-writing to make sense, particularly if they're switching him and his ancestress for his role in Preludes.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Gaiman is neither the showrunner nor writer on this, so God alone knows what we'll actually get.

He's listed as Writer/Executive Producer.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Reviewing this, there are more parts that will make less sense (having gone back and re-read Preludes last night) with some of the casting choices. Constantine's entire involvement would require extensive re-writing to make sense, particularly if they're switching him and his ancestress for his role in Preludes.

I was going to say I wonder if they're not doing Preludes & Nocturnes, as I've only seen Doll's House mentioned, but Wiki says:

Wikipedia wrote:According to Gaiman, the plan is to faithfully adapt the series, beginning with the first season adapting "Preludes & Nocturnes" and "The Doll's House". However, the series features changes intended to update the story for modern times. For example, it begins in 2021 rather than 1989, with Dream now having been imprisoned for 105 years instead of 75 years. Gaiman stated that the team attempted to reinvent Dream as if "we were creating [him] now"; this included considering changing Dream's gender.

beast_gts wrote:
He's listed as Writer/Executive Producer.

Ah, it changed then, since Allan Heinberg had been listed as the writer/showrunner with Gaiman as producer.

beast_gts wrote:

Gaiman stated that the team attempted to reinvent Dream as if "we were creating [him] now"; this included considering changing Dream's gender.

OK, so, in effect, Gaiman will be pulling a George Lucas. Like I said, this is NOT going to end well.

Though just imagine the twitstorm twitter would have if they'd gone ahead with the idea of casting a woman as Dream, and then de-powered her and held her prisoner for a century.

30 YEAR



Seems like a lot of tinkering for little gain

Move the start of the story on, ensure tech references are updated (at a minimum), but tell the same beats? Given we know Lyta has been cast, the end game you mention could still be on the cards, Turnip Jedi.

It is interesting that they've announced Great-Grannie Constantine before Modern Constantine, though.

The Lady Joanna thing is a bit odd as she doesn't show up in the comic till part way into the second arc, but Ms Colman is rather watchable

And fingers crossed it gets as far as an end and they stick with the comic ending

I had never read those comics and always heard only how great they are so I am looking to see the show. Hopefully it lives up to the hype of the dead tree version.

Heimdall, the White God of Norse mythology, whos skin was like ivory and had gold teeth, is played fantastically by Idris Alba.

Not to mention that Death, like all of the Endless, doesn't have an actual physical form. They are perceived by the viewer in ways that fit the viewers perceptions. When people see Death they don't see a girl whos skin is pure white. They see either a normal girl, or a skeleton draped in black robes, or whatever else.

We are not talking about Luke Cage whos racial background is a aspect that informs their character.

We are talking about the living embodiment of diametrically opposed concepts as an Endless entity that exists throughout all time and space. It can look like whatever the hell it wants and anyone of any background can play them if they are a good fit for the role.

Not looking forward to this for personal reasons (Gaiman is a bad writer. He has amazing ideas, but his writing is 100% bad)

But I personally do not see the big issue with Death. Gaiman goes to great lengths to point out how their appearances mean nothing in the comics and they can change on a whim. So much is gets incredibly annoying. It is practically all I remember about them, honestly.

 Lance845 wrote:

We are not talking about Luke Cage whos racial background is a aspect that informs their character.

I wasn't that thrilled with that either, turning Shades from a black guy to Italian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Not to mention that Death, like all of the Endless, doesn't have an actual physical form. They are perceived by the viewer in ways that fit the viewers perceptions. When people see Death they don't see a girl whos skin is pure white. They see either a normal girl, or a skeleton draped in black robes, or whatever else.

And does so particularly when Gaiman wants to squeeze out his co-creators Bob Kane style.

This might be why Mr Gaiman got grumpy on Twitter (or whatever it was)...

Then why are they only casting one person per role?

 AduroT wrote:
Then why are they only casting one person per role?

Because more than that confuses people and more importantly costs money

And it doesn't mean they won't appear as other people in flashbacks/single shots from anothers point of view. People cast in such small segments don't necessarily get top billing/announcements. They just get a mention in the credits.

Brie Larson was cast as Carol Danvers. The child and teenager who got cast to play her younger selves didn't get announcements.

 Lance845 wrote:
And it doesn't mean they won't appear as other people in flashbacks/single shots from anothers point of view. People cast in such small segments don't necessarily get top billing/announcements. They just get a mention in the credits.

Brie Larson was cast as Carol Danvers. The child and teenager who got cast to play her younger selves didn't get announcements.

Fair point, I could see them pulling something like the Coming to America segments in American Gods for the side storys

Also is the show covering just the first run or more, as Fiddlers Green (splendid casting there) and a few others dont show up till the 2nd arc

The first season is supposed to cover Preludes and Nocturnes and The Doll's House. So trades 1 and 3.

Is that one with the super creepy and uncomfortable roadside diner section? I think so but it's been a while...

Cronch wrote:
Is that one with the super creepy and uncomfortable roadside diner section? I think so but it's been a while...

I THINK the 24 hour diner issue is part of the Dolls House. It's been a long time but I am pretty sure the main bit of the Dolls House if the murderers convention with the Corinthian. The Corinthian has been cast, and I think John Dee (Dr. Destiny) has also been cast... not 100% sure. It would make sense since both bits are either parts of Morpheus regaining his items of power or related to things that went wrong in his absence.

 Dysartes wrote:
Move the start of the story on, ensure tech references are updated (at a minimum), but tell the same beats? Given we know Lyta has been cast, the end game you mention could still be on the cards, Turnip Jedi.

It is interesting that they've announced Great-Grannie Constantine before Modern Constantine, though.

I am curious about if there were any copyright issues to overcome with having characters who are part of the wider DC universe in there. And the adaptation really doesn't need John Constantine, since his issue (and all the other superhero stuff in the first arc) was essentially a cameo which was presumably there to hook in fans of DC's other stuff. Even Joanna features in two flashbacks total, and really doesn't have much influence on anyone else's plot.

Cronch wrote:
Is that one with the super creepy and uncomfortable roadside diner section? I think so but it's been a while...

Yes, that scene happens in the first volume, when Dream is recovering the artifacts lost during imprisonment and one of them has fallen into the hands of a would-be supervillain.

Of course if it'd been a black character from the comics recast with a non-black actor...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Of course if it'd been a black character from the comics recast with a non-black actor...

People have bitched about that when it happens. I seem to recall Shades got some blowback, having been black in the comics, but Italian on Netflix

Not really the point I was making...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not really the point I was making...

Might be worth making the point clearly, then, rather than merely eluding to it, HBMC.

Behind the scenes video - https://twitter.com/i/status/1402308578250092545