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Longtime Dakkanaut




Given we've had a succession of books where people go "based on the previews this is gonna suck" and then it turns out to be the most overpowered thing (until next month anyway) I wouldn't be that worried.

I realise its always different when its your army, but still.
   
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Tyel wrote:
Given we've had a succession of books where people go "based on the previews this is gonna suck" and then it turns out to be the most overpowered thing (until next month anyway) I wouldn't be that worried.

I realise its always different when its your army, but still.


yea i am hoping for the best but the 8th codex looked good on previews for orks, this one much less so. To be fair our 7th codex was SO bad and our army was so trash anything was going to be appealing going from that to the milquetoast index orks.

I do think GW doesn't have anybody on staff who really plays orks and it shows. rokkits going to d3 shots when they were a assault 1... ok, average oen more shot cool. except its heavy and ork boyz always want to be advancing so...

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I might finally decide its worth ordering 200 based extenders to update my Orkz.
   
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I like the Dakka Dakka rule. TBH I'd like to see that rule just replace Rapid fire. it'd be a nice way to add more varity to a ton of differant weapons.

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BrianDavion wrote:
I like the Dakka Dakka rule. TBH I'd like to see that rule just replace Rapid fire. it'd be a nice way to add more varity to a ton of differant weapons.


My only issue with it is that you can not advance and shoot unless there is something we haven't seen yet, which is kinda bollocks but I can live with it.

On the other hand I have never been happier to be a die hard Snakebite player now that I have seen the new Kulture!
   
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Flashy Flashgitz






Speaking of the new dakka rule, did anyone else notice the addition of the “blast” rule? I thought, blast! that sounds good, right? Oh wait...
It’s really starting to annoy me that GW can’t just improve something for orks without sneaking in a nerf at the same time. Your tank bustas are now more likely to kill stuff! ...and themselves. For firing their weapons. In a battle.
It doesn’t seem like this happens to other armies, or am I off base here?

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 Gulgog TufToof wrote:
Speaking of the new dakka rule, did anyone else notice the addition of the “blast” rule? I thought, blast! that sounds good, right? Oh wait...
It’s really starting to annoy me that GW can’t just improve something for orks without sneaking in a nerf at the same time. Your tank bustas are now more likely to kill stuff! ...and themselves. For firing their weapons. In a battle.
It doesn’t seem like this happens to other armies, or am I off base here?


I think you don't know what blast means.
It means on 6+ models you don't have to roll your D3 shots but get 3 automatically.
Only the kustom mega blaster blows up, as it always did since it's the orks' Plasma equivalent.
   
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The more relevant concern is that blast weapons can't be shot in engagement range, which can be a bit of an issue for several kinds of ork vehicles to my understanding.
   
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Bristol (UK)

I like that Orks lost assault on everything, it doesn't really make sense for Orks to be running and gunning like that.
Assault on everything is a holdover from older editions when you needed Assault to be able to, well, assault after firing.
   
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 Arachnofiend wrote:
The more relevant concern is that blast weapons can't be shot in engagement range, which can be a bit of an issue for several kinds of ork vehicles to my understanding.


Yeah, buggies pretty much have no other way of getting out of combat because their melee is rather bad and walkers want to be in combat and shoot all the time.

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Bristol (UK)

Couldn't they just... fall back?
This is something every army has to deal with.
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
I like that Orks lost assault on everything, it doesn't really make sense for Orks to be running and gunning like that.
Assault on everything is a holdover from older editions when you needed Assault to be able to, well, assault after firing.


I think you are right about this, it feels like advancing is more of a decision for 9 edition armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
Couldn't they just... fall back?
This is something every army has to deal with.


They aren't battle tanks, they are meant to drive/run into the enemy while shooting and have rules to support that. Except sometimes you get unlucky and something like three guardsmen or four guardians survive the whole ordeal and the only way to get out of the mess is by gunning them down because four AP0 attacks simply don't kill them.

None of those units rely on rokkits or KMB to get out combat, and none will stop acting as they did because of the blast rule - but you still lose those shots, thus making it a small nerf.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/16 07:55:53


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I've always wanted to field loads of kommandos but I'm not a fan of resin kit, those new ones however are totally awesome. I'm taking multiple boxes for sure.

I'm split on Beast-snaggas, most models are from great to fine and rules seem quite good so far. Only thing I'm not a fan of is that Squig pulled rig, I mean I like my Orks quite cartoony but this is too much and too busy in my taste.
   
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I think the Snakebites tactic is actually quite nasty. Space Marines' chief source of S8 shooting comes from heavier weaponry. Hellblasters, Plasma Inceptors, Eliminators, and Eradicators. Out of these four units, I'd suggest you use Eliminators w/ Las-Fusils to kill Snakebites.

The first two have to overcharge to get to S8 and the last has to get up close to do their shtick. That exposes them both to Dakka and the survivors of their shooting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/16 11:21:09


Fernys Hjolda!
 
   
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Why would you shoot those weapons at single wound infantry though? And if you're targeting multi-wound models, wouldn't you overcharge anyways?

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 Jidmah wrote:
Why would you shoot those weapons at single wound infantry though? And if you're targeting multi-wound models, wouldn't you overcharge anyways?


The usual options aren't really high enough strength to wound on 3s. Maybe you could compensate with volume of shots. I am no Math-hammer guy.

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I was more thinking along the lines that if you do face snakebites, there will probably be some squigs stomping around which plasma and melta would be really good at killing.

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 RaptorusRex wrote:
I think the Snakebites tactic is actually quite nasty. Space Marines' chief source of S8 shooting comes from heavier weaponry. Hellblasters, Plasma Inceptors, Eliminators, and Eradicators. Out of these four units, I'd suggest you use Eliminators w/ Las-Fusils to kill Snakebites.

The first two have to overcharge to get to S8 and the last has to get up close to do their shtick. That exposes them both to Dakka and the survivors of their shooting.


Did you forget about hte plethora of Melta that is appearing in most lists? Attack bikes and Dev squads running around with Multi-melta's is fairly common.

And if you are wasting S8 shots on Boyz than I have already won the game.
BrianDavion wrote:
I like the Dakka Dakka rule. TBH I'd like to see that rule just replace Rapid fire. it'd be a nice way to add more varity to a ton of differant weapons.


DDD is now a nerf at mid to max range and a buff at incredibly short range. Case and Point. At 10-18' range, 30 shoota boyz w/ old shootas got 23.3 hits, now they get 20. At 1-9' range they still got 23.3 hits, now they will get 30. Good luck getting all those boyz into range AND good luck not Fething your charge up afterwards.


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
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Do we now know if Dakka weapons still allow for assault still advance and shooting?

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Not Online!!! wrote:
Do we now know if Dakka weapons still allow for assault still advance and shooting?


my guess is yes, if not they will have fundamentally changed how the army works, you would never shoot a shoota again on a boyz squad, and even things liek tank bustas wehre they have rokkits btu are better with tank hammers and bombs than the rokkit launchers

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Someone has to give Xeno the bad news about the Stompa dropping to 675 points (as per the Warhammer Community Article).

I feel safe in saying Transhuman but only for S6/S7 weapons isn't all that as a chapter tactic unless the other ones are decidedly meh. But in conjunction with the +1 to wound on the charge with Squig units, it might be worth splashing in if say 3*5 Squighogs+Squig characters was a detachment of interest.
   
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@Sgt. Cortez, thanks for setting me straight on that one. The image in the community article made it look like the KMB’s mw on 1’s was the definition of blast. I feel better now. And clearly I need to get more games in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/16 14:30:45


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Not Online!!! wrote:
Do we now know if Dakka weapons still allow for assault still advance and shooting?

It wasn't clear from the article so it's hard to say, they appear to be somewhere in between Assault weapons and Rapid Fire weapons. In terms of mechanics.

So a Shooter is Shots 2, +1 Shot in rapid fire range and a Big Shoota is Shots 3, +2 shots in rapid fire range. Since it's not as good as Rapid Fire I'm hoping they can still advance but we'll see. If there's no advancing I think my Shoota Boyz will continue to not see any playtime. I am interested in the new Speedwaaagh rules since I love Ork vehicles.
   
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Annandale, VA

RaptorusRex wrote:I think the Snakebites tactic is actually quite nasty. Space Marines' chief source of S8 shooting comes from heavier weaponry. Hellblasters, Plasma Inceptors, Eliminators, and Eradicators. Out of these four units, I'd suggest you use Eliminators w/ Las-Fusils to kill Snakebites.

The first two have to overcharge to get to S8 and the last has to get up close to do their shtick. That exposes them both to Dakka and the survivors of their shooting.


Overcharging plasma is really not a problem for a Marine player- they won't be using them without a means to re-roll 1s, and then it's overcharge all day every day.

As a Guard player I always overcharge plasma just to go from 3+ to 2+ wounding against T4 (even when I was against W1 Marines or Orks where the damage increase didn't matter), on platforms that will die instantly if they take a single MW.

Marines don't care. Zap. Granted, if they're targeting your infantry with plasma then you're doing something right.

SemperMortis wrote:DDD is now a nerf at mid to max range and a buff at incredibly short range. Case and Point. At 10-18' range, 30 shoota boyz w/ old shootas got 23.3 hits, now they get 20. At 1-9' range they still got 23.3 hits, now they will get 30. Good luck getting all those boyz into range AND good luck not Fething your charge up afterwards.


To be clear, you're looking at 86% of prior damage at over half range, and 129% at under half range. So, the boost at under half range is double the nerf at over half range; you just need to get there.

If Bad Moons are getting +6" range as the leak said, plus bonus AP on 6s to wound, I'd expect them to be the go-to for armies with Shoota Boyz.

   
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 G00fySmiley wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Do we now know if Dakka weapons still allow for assault still advance and shooting?


my guess is yes, if not they will have fundamentally changed how the army works, you would never shoot a shoota again on a boyz squad, and even things liek tank bustas wehre they have rokkits btu are better with tank hammers and bombs than the rokkit launchers


Who knows, maybee orks get lucky and dakka weaponry also allows to ignore negative modifiers to advance + shooting?

Considering orks are ,well, orks that would make sense

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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I think it's pretty unlikely that they would leave out such a major part of a new weapon type when previewing it.

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We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
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Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
I think it's pretty unlikely that they would leave out such a major part of a new weapon type when previewing it.


you are probably right, but maybe it is a case of it was so obvious they didn't think it need saying? but maybe not. rip shoota boyz if so, honestly i never really brought them in any edition anyway

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PenitentJake wrote:
I was reluctant to start another faction.

But GW knows how to market.

I want Kill Team, right? Which means I'm getting a unit of Kommandos at a discount already. It makes the discount offered by the Beast Snagga box more valuable. I wish I had foreseen this when the Speed Freaks box was available.
This has always been a hobby that used gateway drugs to hook hobbyists new and old into bigger, longer-term purchases. I remember having random new battalion boxes shoved in my face by desperate staff whenever I wandered into the store for a game or some replacement paints.

Now, though? GW's gotten so much better at it. You obviously want the new Kill Team, because there's a cool trailer, the rules look great, and the models are amazing (and hilarious, for Orks). That means you've got a squad of Kommandos. And hey, here are a bunch of cool-looking new Ork models that replace some of the oldest, ugliest parts of the range – and you can use them in the same Kill Team? Oh, you bought a squad of the new Ork Boyz to bulk out your Kill Team and allow some new builds? And you also picked up that exclusive Warboss model because hey, it's a limited time offer and looks good? That's interesting – that's 2/3rds of a Combat Patrol army! Sure we can't tempt you to a box or two more, so you can play a game with them? We've got a new Start Collecting Orks box that's quite the bargain...

And the thing is, when a company's actually good at this kind of selling tactic, you don't even mind, because the stuff you're buying is new and cool and you want it. AoS is even worse than 40k for this; they've got Underworlds starting you off with "haha, these 3-5 cool little character models are great, I don't need anything else", then Warcry holding your hand into "actually, if I just buy the one box, I can play this game too... and if I buy another, I can have a more diverse roster...", then AoS itself comes in for the kill and before you know it you've bought two Kharadron zeppelins.

Honestly, all they're missing now is a proper game in between Kill Team and Warhammer 40,000 – 200-500 "points" of squad-based combat. A game designed for Combat Patrol boxes, basically.
   
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That's an excellent point, with the new KT taking a risk and using a non-standard 40k rules set we may see a rules light 40k Combat Patrol turn into the new gateway into 40k.
   
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What is the new Dakka Dakka rule?
   
 
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