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AMG have produced a load of terrain kits at this scale for MCP, they will just do the same here.

 Cannibal wrote:
The scale change seems dubious from a scenery perspective. If they still work with existing terrain I think I'll give it a shot but if I have to collect an entire new set of terrain for this game alone that would be bad. Inquisitor was amazing but nobody had terrain in that large scale so everyone just used regular scale figures. Inquisitor figures didn't sell and the game tanked.

I use the same set of terrain for Batman and MCP. The MCP guys are only a little big when I put them right against a doorframe but it overall looks fine. Here's a comparison:

So for those of us who play neither current game, this is basically a larger model scale with smaller skirmish scale rules game?

I'll play the game because it looks to be what I like about Star Wars ...

BUT ...

... there is NO WAY I will ever paint another Star Wars mini in another scale. Enough already !! West End metals, Imperial Assault, Legion, now this ?! Nope, I have other hobby interests, too.
I'll just use what I already have (Including WAY too many prepainted WizKids minis).

And let's not forget about scaled terrain. I'm not recreating all I have. GW learned that hard lesson when they introduced the Inquisitor game in 54mm scale. Cool models, sure, but no terrain. And just as playable with minis in regular 40K scale. Bat decision then and bad decision again.

But I'm still looking forward to playing Shatterpoint (with minis and terrain I already have in abundance).

not really that much larger model scale, but on a smaller scale rules wise

for me the game is more interesting than Legion, for various reasons with the biggest one being the focus on heroes
like it makes much more sense to have the various characters in the small fights than the large battles (and for Legion the not-named leaders or side-characters were always more interesting in the battle scale for me)

PS: for the model scale, funny for me is how people go bonkers about slightly different scale in the models for that game, while everyone downplays the larger difference in GW models between games and makes it a non-issue that Underworlds models are a head above the regular fantasy ones

I'd have been down for a mass battle 10mm game. Just saying.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd have been down for a mass battle 10mm game. Just saying.

I would have, as well. Ironically, Legion managed to hit that sweet spot of exactly what I wasn't interested in.

I think that would have been a good way to expand X-Wing personally.

the scale difference kills this for anybody already invested in legion. It could have been a perfect gateway game, to lead people in legion, like heres a couple of heros and a squad - then buy a couple more squads to turn that into a legion army.
Like killteam is for 40K.

I’ll take a pass on this. Already inundated with models back to the WotC plastics, enough with the scale changes.

I would have much rather they have used the effort to create this to have further expanded Legion or kept from mothballing Armada.

Love the size of the game (small warband/skirmish), but absolutely hate that it is in yet another scale. Plus, it would seem the ridiculous amounts of Tactical Detritus will be carrying over to this game from MCP. No thanks.

Also, looking at the picture posted by LunarSol above, it would seem they are incapable of even maintaining a scale within a line. Bucky, Cap, and Loki all look like different scale figures to my eye.

 Taarnak wrote:

Also, looking at the picture posted by LunarSol above, it would seem they are incapable of even maintaining a scale within a line. Bucky, Cap, and Loki all look like different scale figures to my eye.

IDK what to tell you. Loki, Cap and Bucky are all almost 1 5/8" tall from toe to the top of the head. Cap and Bucky are a little hunched over and Loki is standing very straight, but the difference in height is in the 1/16" range.

I don't think Loki is a good indication of scale since he's supposed to be a runty frost giant. It makes sense for him to be a skinny midget. Similarly Skurge is the son of a storm giant, apparently, and his model is humongous compared to normal humans.

If you look at Hela, to stay with Asgardians, she's about as tall as Captain Marvel. Thor is about as tall as Hawkeye.

AMG seems to do alright with relative scale in Crisis Protocol, with the caveat that I'm not into comics and may not have the most insight into how large they're all supposed to be. But the humans I have all seem to mesh well.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd have been down for a mass battle 10mm game. Just saying.

At least at Crisis Protocol scale they can make a robot AT-AT that's large enough that you can ride it to work.

Despite not needing another system to play this may well be the first Star Wars game I buy into. I love the look of the models, and the scale definitely works for me. Looking forward to it.

FFG / AMG / WhoeverAsmodeeSaysTheyAre has been doing this since Battlelore. Release a lifestyle game, release another one, release yet another, see what sticks, and drop the rest. Nevermind that the customers who bought the dropped games have spent hundreds of dollars, time for another core set, like WotC does with D&D. You remember Runewars Miniatures? The SW IP means this new game won't be DOA, but FFG/AMG/Asmodee already has a reputation with the "fool me once" crowd.

Whelp, time to see if Amazon has any baby Yoda figures for sale during their Early Black Friday sale. Only one and a half months until Christmas! Spend like mad!

 Taarnak wrote:
Love the size of the game (small warband/skirmish), but absolutely hate that it is in yet another scale. Plus, it would seem the ridiculous amounts of Tactical Detritus will be carrying over to this game from MCP. No thanks.

Also, looking at the picture posted by LunarSol above, it would seem they are incapable of even maintaining a scale within a line. Bucky, Cap, and Loki all look like different scale figures to my eye.

That's what you're looking at, and not Han's enormous head?


Anyway. A new scale and a change from armies to heroes doesn't have much appeal for me. I think I get it (from a company perspective) if its a push to a skirmish game model, but no interest here.

Voss wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:

Also, looking at the picture posted by LunarSol above, it would seem they are incapable of even maintaining a scale within a line. Bucky, Cap, and Loki all look like different scale figures to my eye.

That's what you're looking at, and not Han's enormous head?
.

Han's head is indeed enormous, but AMG didn't have anything to do with it's creation. I was only referring to the MCP figures in that quote because AMG made all of those.

 Kalamadea wrote:
Scale change completely kills it for me, no way in hell I'm building another set of Star Wars terrain. This could have been so good, Legion for mass combat and Shatterpoint for character heavy small skirmish, I would have been all over this.

Instead they'll get nothing from me. I can't imagine I'm the only one. Utterly flabbergasted at this decision, it's everything I want but in a size I'll never accept

Thats 100 percent my stance. I really dont understand it and as a passionate legion fan hate the thought of a split player base/dev ressources

Bago wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Scale change completely kills it for me, no way in hell I'm building another set of Star Wars terrain. This could have been so good, Legion for mass combat and Shatterpoint for character heavy small skirmish, I would have been all over this.

Instead they'll get nothing from me. I can't imagine I'm the only one. Utterly flabbergasted at this decision, it's everything I want but in a size I'll never accept

Thats 100 percent my stance. I really dont understand it and as a passionate legion fan hate the thought of a split player base/dev ressources

There isn't much to understand. AMG wants to make their own Star Wars game with rules to their liking and sculpts to their own standards, rather than just expanding games they inherited and that require some continuity and curtail the designers' creativity/freedom. The only "barrier" to this is that they have to convince their bosses that they can make Star Wars fans buy the same characters all over again for a different game and in a different scale. And let's face it, you could hear the resulting ka-ching from across the Atlantic. How are you going to see customer concerns when you have dollar signs in your eyes?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd have been down for a mass battle 10mm game. Just saying.

6mm, then our x-wing minis would have been in-scale for aerial transports and air support assets.

As someone building an IA connection when Legion decided to up-scale, I confess to a bit of schadenfreude on seeing the Legion players get the same treatment. Not very gentlemanly of me and I'll probably feel guilty later, but there you have it.

Thank goodness I said no thanks to Legion and looked to WOTC and 3d printing to grow my 28mm SW Collection. Once I finish off my IA Collection, FFG/AMG/FNG can stuff it.

 Eilif wrote:
As someone building an IA connection when Legion decided to up-scale, I confess to a bit of schadenfreude on seeing the Legion players get the same treatment. Not very gentlemanly of me and I'll probably feel guilty later, but there you have it.
Thank goodness I said no thanks to Legion and looked to WOTC and 3d printing to grow my 28mm SW Collection. Once I finish off my IA Collection, FFG/AMG/FNG can stuff it.

Yeah, I had (have!) a good IA Star Wars collection, so I wasn't interested in buying into Legion. I'll happily buy into a skirmish-sized Star Wars: Crisis Protocol game. I'm not fussed about Armada not getting ongoing support. I have a ton of stuff and don't feel a need for the game to have every obscure ship from EU/Legends books and comics. I'm actually happy enough for the game ot be "finished". Products don't need to have the 40k treatment, but too many people have been trained by GW's market tactics (taken on by so many others) to need "new" stuff all the time to feel that their games have meaning/support/are worth playing...

 Geifer wrote:
There isn't much to understand. AMG wants to make their own Star Wars game with rules to their liking and sculpts to their own standards, rather than just expanding games they inherited and that require some continuity and curtail the designers' creativity/freedom. The only "barrier" to this is that they have to convince their bosses that they can make Star Wars fans buy the same characters all over again for a different game and in a different scale. And let's face it, you could hear the resulting ka-ching from across the Atlantic. How are you going to see customer concerns when you have dollar signs in your eyes?

Wait, wait. Did anyone at AMG actually say this? How did they convince the higher-ups that they should be doing this? As this thread clearly shows, there're both hobbyists who like and who do not like this change.

> As someone building an IA connection when Legion decided to up-scale, I confess to a bit of schadenfreude on seeing the Legion players get the same treatment. Not very gentlemanly of me and I'll probably feel guilty later, but there you have it.

Nothing to feel guilty about. If you like a game, but not a company's business model (how they sell the product), you don't have to buy the game. There are many games and miniatures I like, but I don't buy them because of their company's business models, be it random packs, planned obsolescence, lack of support, "short" product lifespan, indifferent or poor customer relations, etc. etc.. That means no Magic packs, few CMON games, no GW,
no D&D core books, little if any FFG/AMG/Asmodee ccg's or miniatures, no WizKids prepainteds, etc. That still leaves plenty of companies whose games I am interested to ruin my wallet!

 ced1106 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
There isn't much to understand. AMG wants to make their own Star Wars game with rules to their liking and sculpts to their own standards, rather than just expanding games they inherited and that require some continuity and curtail the designers' creativity/freedom. The only "barrier" to this is that they have to convince their bosses that they can make Star Wars fans buy the same characters all over again for a different game and in a different scale. And let's face it, you could hear the resulting ka-ching from across the Atlantic. How are you going to see customer concerns when you have dollar signs in your eyes?

Wait, wait. Did anyone at AMG actually say this?

Nope, that's just my speculation based on my experience with capitalism and creative types.

 ced1106 wrote:
As this thread clearly shows, there're both hobbyists who like and who do not like this change.

That's to be expected and there's nothing wrong with it. To each their own.

That said, unlike many other properties Star Wars does offer greater opportunity to disregard customer concerns because of its general popularity and ability to draw in new crowds if the old customers leave. It's a licensed property and changes hands once in a while, but there is little need to cater to existing customers' model collection. If that is no longer a concern to ensure financial success, you are very likely to see a creative team negotiate that they can realize their vision instead of continuing someone else's.

I've been in the hobby long enough to know that, for the most part, every product is a "limited edition" or has a limited lifespan. Yes there are companies that still sell 20+ year old products, but they tend to be small operations. Star Wars is an expensive IP to license so companies need to crank out product to maximize profits. X-Wing appeals to one set of gamers. Armada and Legion to other sets. Shatterpoint will bring in more new players as well as be played by existing players. At some point Asmodee will lose or give up the SW license and ALL those games will be "dead." Till then the best way to keep them alive is to keep making money off the IP so they can justify paying for the license.

 bbb wrote:
I've been in the hobby long enough to know that, for the most part, every product is a "limited edition" or has a limited lifespan.

100%. 40K and D&D are anomalies, not the standards.

And while I was upset at FFG for abandoning IA for Legion, enough time has passed that a different game of a property I like might pull me back in. MCP seemed like a game I should like, if I was really into comics. Something like MCP but with I property I love well... But even though this game won't be out 'til next year it too will die and a new Star Wars game will replace it eventually. That's just how things work.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 bbb wrote:
I've been in the hobby long enough to know that, for the most part, every product is a "limited edition" or has a limited lifespan.

100%. 40K and D&D are anomalies, not the standards.

I agree. I think my calculus for product use is a bit different though. I'm not interested in feeding money just in the hope that the company holds onto a license a bit longer. I'm taking the long view. A couple of examples:

I knew IA would die, but I also know..
- It's a boardgame so likelihood of play in the future is increased
-It will also probably have a reasonable resale value.
-The 28mm figures are compatible with the rest of my collection and have use in other games.
... so I kept buying.

I knew Runewars would die but already had a use in mind for the 28mm figures in another game so I built up my Daqan army and wasn't overly fussed when the whole thing went belly up even sooner than expected.

Legion and Shatterpoint by comparison very likely aren't going to have have enough post-game-death compatibilities, play opportunities or resale to be worth it to me.

 Eilif wrote:

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 bbb wrote:
I've been in the hobby long enough to know that, for the most part, every product is a "limited edition" or has a limited lifespan.

100%. 40K and D&D are anomalies, not the standards.

I agree. I think my calculus for product use is a bit different though. I'm not interested in feeding money just in the hours that the company holds onto a license a bit longer. I'm taking the long view. A couple of examples

I knew IA would die, but I also know..
- It's a boardgame so likelihood of play on the future is increased
-It will also probably have a reasonable resale value.
-The 28mm figures are compatible with the rest of my collection and have used in other games.
... So I kept buying.

I knew Runewars would die but already had a use in mint for the 28mm figures in another game so I built up my Daqan army and wasn't overly fussed when the whole thing went belly up even sooner than expected.

Legion and Shatterpoint by comparison very likely aren' going to have have enough the post-game-death compatibilities, play opportunities or resale to be worth it to me.

I think we're at an interesting point in the hobby where there is enough community passion and technological ease that we will see groups continue to play and develop games once they "die." We've seen it for years with Necromunda (which came back) and Epic already. Blood Bowl was kept alive by the fan community and eventually came back too. With 3d printing there are plenty of designers cranking out replacements for out of production items.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For MCP there is a relatively large community that plays almost exclusively over TTS. If AMG went belly-up all of a sudden They would probably keep playing and come up with their own modifications and updates over time.

Sorry, but all the ads for this are just a good reminder that I still need to grab a couple of kits for my Armada collection.

Yeah, might have to grab a Separatist Starter fleet or two so I'm shored up. I'v got pretty much everything else I'll ever want for friendly at-home games.
Except maybe that SSD!