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Godless-Mimicry wrote:Again why bother when you can drop it on a Raven's wing and the Raven suffers no ill effects?

BTW, ye do know you can't shoot into combat right, even if you are targetting your own guy?

Karamazov's rule explicitly allows you to target a friendly model in close combat with his bombardment.

Grey Templar wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Again why bother when you can drop it on a Raven's wing and the Raven suffers no ill effects?

BTW, ye do know you can't shoot into combat right, even if you are targetting your own guy?

Karamazov's rule explicitly allows you to target a friendly model in close combat with his bombardment.

Just checked it and you are right, never say that part of his rule. Still, I'd much rather target my Raven that can't be hurt by it than harm any expensive models, especially since you only have keep the Raven's base 1" away, but can target any part of the hull. Gives a lot of options. Team this with 2+ Psyker squads and you can be raining down fire on the enemy.

Stoffer wrote:

Red Comet wrote:Blessings and Maledictions state that they last until the following turn so this means they last 2 player turns. Prescience will work on the opposing player's turn and they are all cast during the movement phase so the powers do not expire in the movement phase.

Interesting. The way it reads makes it look like you cannot use psychic powers outside of your turn anymore?

As far as powers classified by the BRB that would seem to be the case unless the power explicitly states otherwise from what I can tell.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Again why bother when you can drop it on a Raven's wing and the Raven suffers no ill effects?

BTW, ye do know you can't shoot into combat right, even if you are targetting your own guy?

Karamazov's rule explicitly allows you to target a friendly model in close combat with his bombardment.

Just checked it and you are right, never say that part of his rule. Still, I'd much rather target my Raven that can't be hurt by it than harm any expensive models, especially since you only have keep the Raven's base 1" away, but can target any part of the hull. Gives a lot of options. Team this with 2+ Psyker squads and you can be raining down fire on the enemy.

You can't do it with the Psyker squads since you can't declare Skyfire with template or blast weapons, which Psykic Barrage counts as - a psyking shooting weapon.

Also, doesn't this mean you can't target the Storm Raven to drop the Orbital Bombardment on?

Red Comet wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

Red Comet wrote:Blessings and Maledictions state that they last until the following turn so this means they last 2 player turns. Prescience will work on the opposing player's turn and they are all cast during the movement phase so the powers do not expire in the movement phase.

Interesting. The way it reads makes it look like you cannot use psychic powers outside of your turn anymore?

As far as powers classified by the BRB that would seem to be the case unless the power explicitly states otherwise from what I can tell.

Yes, you can't use powers outside of your turn anymore since they did not catagorize them... Other than that, some powers may still be cast in the opponent's turn if stated explicitly, though. i.e. Sanctuary, Shrouding...

Enigwolf wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Again why bother when you can drop it on a Raven's wing and the Raven suffers no ill effects?

BTW, ye do know you can't shoot into combat right, even if you are targetting your own guy?

Karamazov's rule explicitly allows you to target a friendly model in close combat with his bombardment.

Just checked it and you are right, never say that part of his rule. Still, I'd much rather target my Raven that can't be hurt by it than harm any expensive models, especially since you only have keep the Raven's base 1" away, but can target any part of the hull. Gives a lot of options. Team this with 2+ Psyker squads and you can be raining down fire on the enemy.

You can't do it with the Psyker squads since you can't declare Skyfire with template or blast weapons, which Psykic Barrage counts as - a psyking shooting weapon.

Also, doesn't this mean you can't target the Storm Raven to drop the Orbital Bombardment on?

Flyers are just immune to template/blast weapons IIRC. They can still be targeted AFAIK.

Well here is my final list I guess for tomorrow's tournament.

Draigo 275

Paladin 10 man 550 (745)
1 Psycannon +20
3 MC Psycannons +75
Apoth +75
Banner +25

Paladin 2 man 110

Psyrifle Dread 115 (135)
Psybolts+5
Twin linked autocannon +10
Twin linked autocannon +5

Dreadknight 130 (235)
Teleporter +75
Heavy Incinerator +30

1500

Played a game last night where my math was apparently off and I had like +100 points. Whoops. 1500 pts feels pretty restrictive for Draigowing.

Also my psycannons were melting so much face, my stormbolters barely ever got to fire from the main squad.

Dreadnought got glanced to death from behind by Tau Firewarriors :|

Enigwolf wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Again why bother when you can drop it on a Raven's wing and the Raven suffers no ill effects?

BTW, ye do know you can't shoot into combat right, even if you are targetting your own guy?

Karamazov's rule explicitly allows you to target a friendly model in close combat with his bombardment.

Just checked it and you are right, never say that part of his rule. Still, I'd much rather target my Raven that can't be hurt by it than harm any expensive models, especially since you only have keep the Raven's base 1" away, but can target any part of the hull. Gives a lot of options. Team this with 2+ Psyker squads and you can be raining down fire on the enemy.

You can't do it with the Psyker squads since you can't declare Skyfire with template or blast weapons, which Psykic Barrage counts as - a psyking shooting weapon.

Also, doesn't this mean you can't target the Storm Raven to drop the Orbital Bombardment on?

Red Comet wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

Red Comet wrote:Blessings and Maledictions state that they last until the following turn so this means they last 2 player turns. Prescience will work on the opposing player's turn and they are all cast during the movement phase so the powers do not expire in the movement phase.

Interesting. The way it reads makes it look like you cannot use psychic powers outside of your turn anymore?

As far as powers classified by the BRB that would seem to be the case unless the power explicitly states otherwise from what I can tell.

Yes, you can't use powers outside of your turn anymore since they did not catagorize them... Other than that, some powers may still be cast in the opponent's turn if stated explicitly, though. i.e. Sanctuary, Shrouding...

Yeah so basically the new powers in the BYB are in your turn, but old codex specific powers can still be used whenever they were before.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Well here is my final list I guess for tomorrow's tournament.

Draigo 275

Paladin 10 man 550 (745)
1 Psycannon +20
3 MC Psycannons +75
Apoth +75
Banner +25

Paladin 2 man 110

Psyrifle Dread 115 (135)
Psybolts+5
Twin linked autocannon +10
Twin linked autocannon +5

Dreadknight 130 (235)
Teleporter +75
Heavy Incinerator +30

1500

Played a game last night where my math was apparently off and I had like +100 points. Whoops. 1500 pts feels pretty restrictive for Draigowing.

Also my psycannons were melting so much face, my stormbolters barely ever got to fire from the main squad.

Dreadnought got glanced to death from behind by Tau Firewarriors :|

Balls-y at 1500. Can I suggest. What about turning the Dreadknight into another psyrifle dread and add Coteaz into the deathstar for 2 divination powers. If you need to combat squad the star for a crusade or scouring game you can make a coteaz/psycannon shooty group and a draigo run into your face and smash buttholes group.

Goat wrote:

Balls-y at 1500. Can I suggest. What about turning the Dreadknight into another psyrifle dread and add Coteaz into the deathstar for 2 divination powers. If you need to combat squad the star for a crusade or scouring game you can make a coteaz/psycannon shooty group and a draigo run into your face and smash buttholes group.

Well, in the games I've been playing, Psyrifle Dreads haven't done much damage, and appear to be pretty fragile in 6th; to the point of getting blown up in a turn of shooting even with it in cover.

I was messing with Coteaz, and while Prescience is nice, I find I prefer just mastercrafting all of my psycannons, as I tend not to roll more than like 4 misses, and then I don't have to worry about getting shut down by eldar allies or perils every turn I'm rolling a psychic test.

In reference to adding another psyrifle, I was actually thinking about going with another dreadknight instead, lol. If I can fit it that is. Which I don't think I can really... too bad.

How do you throw your psycannon dice shots? Isn't it cheating to throw all 16 at once and picking 4 misses out and rerolling them? Wouldn't you have to roll them all seperately and re-roll only 1 miss per 4 shots? Who's to say one cannon didn't miss 3 times, you only get 1 to re-roll.

Goat wrote:How do you throw your psycannon dice shots? Isn't it cheating to throw all 16 at once and picking 4 misses out and rerolling them? Wouldn't you have to roll them all seperately and re-roll only 1 miss per 4 shots? Who's to say one cannon didn't miss 3 times, you only get 1 to re-roll.

yeah, you either have to have separate coloured dice for each master-crafted weapon or roll each separately.

Goat wrote:How do you throw your psycannon dice shots? Isn't it cheating to throw all 16 at once and picking 4 misses out and rerolling them? Wouldn't you have to roll them all seperately and re-roll only 1 miss per 4 shots? Who's to say one cannon didn't miss 3 times, you only get 1 to re-roll.

I mean, I guess it isn't cheating since that is how my game group and the guys at the FLGS I play at do it.

I throw all 16 then reroll 4 misses and remove the rest.

I mean, I guess it isn't cheating since that is how my game group and the guys at the FLGS I play at do it.

I throw all 16 then reroll 4 misses and remove the rest.

i don't actually like to call it cheating if done in ignorance of the fact that it makes master-crafting much more effective than it should be - but it does, so it's not right to do it that way (obviously if everyone you play is happy then that's okay locally but you may run into someone who expects it done properly and it may colour their view of you as a player if you're not doing it correctly).

I suppose I can attempt to convince them all to do it a different way; I guess they've never thought of doing it that way, just like I didn't.

I know a lot of people's first take is to do it your way, but it does skew things.

I mean for instance if you have two mc psycannon firing and you roll:

hit, hit, miss, miss
hit, hit, hit, hit

then you should only get one re-roll. But you'd get two you're way. Sometimes it does make no odds but it matters enough times to be worth getting right.

Dangit, now that I know this, I'll have to change the way I do it.

Why couldn't you just leave me in ignorance!? lol

Now thinking...

Draigo

10 Pal, 4MCPsy, Psybolts

1 Pal

Dreadknight Tele+Incin

Dreadknight Tele+Incin

1500

I'm figuring out I don't like playing at 1500, lol. Would like to throw in a Phobos LR or something for when I split the main squad for objectives... but not enough points. Usually my friends and I play around 1750-1800ish.

I'm finding I generally don't like taking the Paladins and Draigo as a giant deathstar, because of how much it tactically limits your options. You have this giant group with a 24" range, and everything you shoot at melts, but its hard to move around and through cover, you only get one shot per turn, etc. I'd rather run it as combat squads more often than not, and just run a deathstar if its for something I need super tanking for. Also, you can never put a 10 man into anything, at least I could stick a 5 man into a Phobos, and the 5 man with Draigo into a Redeemer.

Blood and Slaughter wrote:I know a lot of people's first take is to do it your way, but it does skew things.

A friend of mine still tries to insist that's how it's actually done, but I don't usually care because my Paladins eat his Sang. Guard alive anyway

Well tested out the first list tonight, pretty much had the game wrapped up besides a crazy last move from a jetpack troops squad of BAngels that snagged an objective.

Got first blood, Slay the Warlord, and had one Objective. He managed to snag two; oh well.

Psycannons massacred things as usual, psyrifle dread did well almost wrecking a Baal pred on its first round of shooting; Dreadknight cut apart a landraider and a few TH/SS terms before going down.

Was playing Crusade with 3 objectives.

I've been thinking about this, I know that each GK squad only counts as 1 Psyker because of Brotherhood of Psykers when it comes to the Culexus Assassin's attack. How about the Inquisitorial Henchmen Psykers? Do they count as Brotherhood of Psykers too or do each of them count as a single psyker?

The reason why I'm asking this is because people commonly field 8 in a squad, which gives a nice bonus to the Culexus Assassin's attack...

Enigwolf wrote:I've been thinking about this, I know that each GK squad only counts as 1 Psyker because of Brotherhood of Psykers when it comes to the Culexus Assassin's attack. How about the Inquisitorial Henchmen Psykers? Do they count as Brotherhood of Psykers too or do each of them count as a single psyker?

The reason why I'm asking this is because people commonly field 8 in a squad, which gives a nice bonus to the Culexus Assassin's attack...

I wish it worked this way but it does not unfortunately. Just counted as one for GK battle psykers.

As to the IG psykers they also have chior of psykers rule which prevents multiple counts too

Additional note:

Anyone have any requests on what unit they are curious for? I'm tempted to make some random builds to see what else can go well.

Eeeked out a narrow victory vs BA+IG, divination rerolls + first rank fire, second rank fire on a blobbed up squad is just silly. Tried to assaunt that 50 man monster was pretty tough, I just couldn't get my MSU purifiers in there to flame them. Luckily he played his valks wrong and hovered so I got the kill points in the end. I'll test play some other random elements and see what I come up with by request. Mind you I only do 1500 games. I feel kind of numb in the brain lately from watching so many hours of Olympics.

I'm curious to see how much chaos 4 assassins can wreak on an enemy army. lmao. Just for gaks and giggles.

Well you'll have to play 2000pts+ to find out.

Enigwolf wrote:I'm curious to see how much chaos 4 assassins can wreak on an enemy army. lmao. Just for gaks and giggles.

I shall give 3 assasins a try. Missing quite a bit of synergy given lack of techmarines or like an IG psyker battle squad but I will give it a shot anyway! Any particular 3?

So, new to GK and im looking for some list ideas. We play 2000pts locally, and this is the list i've used lately.
HQ:
Draigo-275
Coteaz-100
Elite:
Vindicare-145
Techmarine (beamer)-110
Troops:
10 man Paladin(4x psycannon)- 630
Henchman Squad (4 storm bolter acolytes, joakero,2 MM servi)- 83
Strike Squad- 100
Henchman Squad(4 s bolter acolytes, 1 acolyte, joakero, 2 psyker)- 87
Fast Attack:
Stormraven(MM,AC,HB)- 235
Heavy Support:
DK(incin,tele)-235
Total - 2000
Looking for any ideas, suggestions, complete changes that the more experienced GK players have for me. Also, been thinking about brining a 10man TH/SS termi squad ally

I don't understand your Henchmen squads as they are made up of models that have completely different roles to each other.

Beamer isn't worth it on a Tech Marine, as they are better off up in the action where all their tools can be used, than standing in the back corner all alone. Taking Rad and Psychotroke Grenades on him would be better.

Also get a few Hammers in your Paladins.

He probably does have Hammers, but just isn't showing the free upgrades.

I think henchmen in this kind of list should just be mostly used to snag objectives but I think he is trying to make them into his long range shooting blocks which replaces AC dreads

For draigowing, I tend to like a librarian and if I'm using cotez, I'd use the henchmen as mostly scoring in this kind of scenario. Maybe consider a few solo paladins for holding objectives too?

Godless-Mimicry wrote:I don't understand your Henchmen squads as they are made up of models that have completely different roles to each other.

Beamer isn't worth it on a Tech Marine, as they are better off up in the action where all their tools can be used, than standing in the back corner all alone. Taking Rad and Psychotroke Grenades on him would be better.

Also get a few Hammers in your Paladins.

I agree with the beamer here. I used it thinking premeasuring would make it usable. But the techy should be assaulting and enemies close the distance fast. You rarely if ever get the ap1 shot.

Hey guys, I actually managed to win the Tournament with my first list I posted.

Draigo
10 Pal (Banner, Apo, Psybolts, 4MCPsy)
1 Pal
Dreadknight (Tele, Sword, Incinerator)
Psyrifle Dreadnought

1st game was vs Chaos, not a very difficult battle.

2nd game vs Blood Angels with 2 Stormravens and barely anything on the ground. Dreadknight wiped out his allied guardsmen on the first turn of its shooting. Psycannons managed to bring down both Stormravens, one with Mephiston in it; who promptly died after that.

3rd game was vs Space Wolves "fallen" to chaos; so spiky bits on Space Wolves. Drop-pod assault took me by surprise, but the Dreadknight only took one wound from a squad of combi-melta terminators; in response he killed 5 terminators. The rest of the game went well with Draigo killing his character in a challenge; and then mopping up a significant amount of his troops.

Draigo and his squad were killing machines; mostly the Psycannons. And while I lost the Dreadknight every game, and the Dreadnought 2/3 games, they definitely took quite a bit away with them; and were excellent distractions while the deathmachine squad moved into position.

I had significant leads in terms of points in all 3 games, and had the most points overall so won best general; and got a medal

daedalus-templarius wrote:Hey guys, I actually managed to win the Tournament with my first list I posted.

Draigo
10 Pal (Banner, Apo, Psybolts, 4MCPsy)
1 Pal
Dreadknight (Tele, Sword, Incinerator)
Psyrifle Dreadnought

1st game was vs Chaos, not a very difficult battle.

2nd game vs Blood Angels with 2 Stormravens and barely anything on the ground. Dreadknight wiped out his allied guardsmen on the first turn of its shooting. Psycannons managed to bring down both Stormravens, one with Mephiston in it; who promptly died after that.

3rd game was vs Space Wolves "fallen" to chaos; so spiky bits on Space Wolves. Drop-pod assault took me by surprise, but the Dreadknight only took one wound from a squad of combi-melta terminators; in response he killed 5 terminators. The rest of the game went well with Draigo killing his character in a challenge; and then mopping up a significant amount of his troops.

Draigo and his squad were killing machines; mostly the Psycannons. And while I lost the Dreadknight every game, and the Dreadnought 2/3 games, they definitely took quite a bit away with them; and were excellent distractions while the deathmachine squad moved into position.

I had significant leads in terms of points in all 3 games, and had the most points overall so won best general; and got a medal

Awesome job! Glad to hear you did well. Any tips you wanna add to the front page btw?