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Chaos Imperial Assassin

As far as I know ( I checked faq and there's nothing against it ) you can field an army with Cypher as Warlord: he does not get a warlord trait but he has the keyword IMPERIUM
source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/02/40k-breaking-imperial-assassins-leaks-stat-blocks.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/02/40k-breaking-imperial-assassin-index-leaks-stratagems-galore.html

New assassin rules states that if your warlord has the keyword IMPERIUM you can unlock a special vanguard detachment with assassins OR use the special stratagem that allows you to spend 1 CP to field an assassin of your choiche ( provide that you have the 85 points required) .

Cypher is a funny dude that cost 80 points, so enjoy your Chaos Imperial Assassins

You need a detachment that's only Fallen but yeah.

 Eldarain wrote:
You need a detachment that's only Fallen but yeah.

Nope, there's clearly staten in the codex that Cypher does not prevent the detachment were he is to gain the benefit of the Legion.
You can have an Iron Warriors detachment with him as warlord

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I didn't know that the power axe was so good. thanks for telling me. As for the boltgun, I was thinking maybe I could have one hanging on the back with an arm attached. The arm could be cut down and the stump could be red to signify blood to show that it's a trophy from a kill. I really want to keep the primitive look of the model with minimal technology, so I think the trophy could be a good compromise between keeping that look while still showing that it's in 40K. As to the base, isn't it alright for bases to be larger than the standard one that comes with a model, just not smaller?

If you really didn't want to muck with the base model but still "give it a bolter", you could have one sitting at his feet with the ammo clip cut out, like he's run out of ammo, ejected the clip and is now charging at the enemy to smash them with the axe. There's no requirement for the model to actually be *firing* the bolter in your pose. It's a bit sneaky, but I mean it's not like you've given him a flail and said "oh this is a bolter".

I've never had an issue with people modelling with a slightly larger base - my Warlord is on a Terminator base instead of a standard marine base to ensure he stands out a little bit more (also the basing rubble I was using really didn't fit onto the standard base). Some people might pick, but really, if they're going to get excited about that, then are they really the kind of person you're going to enjoy a game with? I suppose there's potential to be within a distance of something measuring from a slightly larger base, but only by a mm or two... If someone wants to nitpick that "if he was on a standard base he'd be out of charge range", I'd agree, fail the charge and then never play them again.

 Raichase wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I didn't know that the power axe was so good. thanks for telling me. As for the boltgun, I was thinking maybe I could have one hanging on the back with an arm attached. The arm could be cut down and the stump could be red to signify blood to show that it's a trophy from a kill. I really want to keep the primitive look of the model with minimal technology, so I think the trophy could be a good compromise between keeping that look while still showing that it's in 40K. As to the base, isn't it alright for bases to be larger than the standard one that comes with a model, just not smaller?

If you really didn't want to muck with the base model but still "give it a bolter", you could have one sitting at his feet with the ammo clip cut out, like he's run out of ammo, ejected the clip and is now charging at the enemy to smash them with the axe. There's no requirement for the model to actually be *firing* the bolter in your pose. It's a bit sneaky, but I mean it's not like you've given him a flail and said "oh this is a bolter".

I stuck a bolter to my CSM champ's arse, just under his backpack...

 brugner8 wrote:
Chaos Imperial Assassin

As far as I know ( I checked faq and there's nothing against it ) you can field an army with Cypher as Warlord: he does not get a warlord trait but he has the keyword IMPERIUM
source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/02/40k-breaking-imperial-assassins-leaks-stat-blocks.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/02/40k-breaking-imperial-assassin-index-leaks-stratagems-galore.html

New assassin rules states that if your warlord has the keyword IMPERIUM you can unlock a special vanguard detachment with assassins OR use the special stratagem that allows you to spend 1 CP to field an assassin of your choiche ( provide that you have the 85 points required) .

Cypher is a funny dude that cost 80 points, so enjoy your Chaos Imperial Assassins

Its out of the picture, but you need an Imperium detachment to unlock the stratagems themselves.
So you need a detachment with cypher and 3 units of fallen if you want to do that.

 brugner8 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
You need a detachment that's only Fallen but yeah.

Nope, there's clearly staten in the codex that Cypher does not prevent the detachment were he is to gain the benefit of the Legion.
You can have an Iron Warriors detachment with him as warlord

but your whole army have to share one faction key word and iron warriors dont have the imperium key word.
so its just about fallen and assassins.

Skullphoquer wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
You need a detachment that's only Fallen but yeah.

Nope, there's clearly staten in the codex that Cypher does not prevent the detachment were he is to gain the benefit of the Legion.
You can have an Iron Warriors detachment with him as warlord

but your whole army have to share one faction key word and iron warriors dont have the imperium key word.
so its just about fallen and assassins.

They do share a keyword-Chaos.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Skullphoquer wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
You need a detachment that's only Fallen but yeah.

Nope, there's clearly staten in the codex that Cypher does not prevent the detachment were he is to gain the benefit of the Legion.
You can have an Iron Warriors detachment with him as warlord

but your whole army have to share one faction key word and iron warriors dont have the imperium key word.
so its just about fallen and assassins.

They do share a keyword-Chaos.

but the assassins dont have the chaos keyword on their datasheet.

They do share a keyword-Chaos.

CHAOS/IMPERIUM/ELDAR do not count towards detachment keywords as of BigFAQ1.

Your army must share a common keyword (CHAOS). Each detachment within that army must share an additional keyword (LEGION/MARK OF CHAOS/ETC).

So until it gets FAQ'd, you can do the following:

Detachment 1 - Battalion (ALPHA LEGION)
Detachment 2 - Vanguard (DEATH GUARD)
Detachment 3 - Aux Support (FALLEN)

You then make sure to leave 85 reserve points in your list to spend the 1CP during deployment to buy in your assassin, and the fact he doesn't have a CHAOS keyword at that point is irrelevent, since keyword legality is checked before you roll for deployment.

 Ap0k wrote:

They do share a keyword-Chaos.

CHAOS/IMPERIUM/ELDAR do not count towards detachment keywords as of BigFAQ1.

Your army must share a common keyword (CHAOS). Each detachment within that army must share an additional keyword (LEGION/MARK OF CHAOS/ETC).

So until it gets FAQ'd, you can do the following:

Detachment 1 - Battalion (ALPHA LEGION)
Detachment 2 - Vanguard (DEATH GUARD)
Detachment 3 - Aux Support (FALLEN)

You then make sure to leave 85 reserve points in your list to spend the 1CP during deployment to buy in your assassin, and the fact he doesn't have a CHAOS keyword at that point is irrelevent, since keyword legality is checked before you roll for deployment.

This. Would love to add a Vindicare to csm/daemon brigades. Probably not top tier but marauder snipers don't cut it.

As long as your warlord has the imperium keyword you can pop the strat and grab an assassin. Its a legal move RAW.

I assume this means you can't use the vanguard assassin's detachment with chaos?

What book are the assassin's in?

The new assassins stuff will be in the march white dwarf, but the rules have already been leaked. Yeah, you probably cant actually take a detachment for them, but the strat doesnt do anything detachment wise. It falls under the summoning idea where its there as reinforcements but doesnt effect your detachments for chapter rules.

I’m not sold on this just yet. It smacks of ‘glaring loophole that is absolutely not going to survive FAQ’. Come on, Cypher requisitioning a bunch of Assassins that don’t notice most of their side screaming HORUS WAS RIIIIIGHT? Do not spend any money on this if you don’t already have an Imperium army

I didnt say it was a good idea, just agreed it was legal. Besides its not like this would suddenly make cypher and fallen good or anything, just a funny thing you could do.

how would you win in a 1250p tournament?
which list would you play?
Im thinking about the usual berzerker battalion and a 2 sourcerer and 3 cultists battalion for more CPs to waiste and also warptime.

 lindsay40k wrote:
I’m not sold on this just yet. It smacks of ‘glaring loophole that is absolutely not going to survive FAQ’. Come on, Cypher requisitioning a bunch of Assassins that don’t notice most of their side screaming HORUS WAS RIIIIIGHT? Do not spend any money on this if you don’t already have an Imperium army

The Chaos Marines are fighting an enemy that the Assassins are after, and therefore avoid getting in the way?
I dunno. It could be done last edition though and literally nobody complained.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
I’m not sold on this just yet. It smacks of ‘glaring loophole that is absolutely not going to survive FAQ’. Come on, Cypher requisitioning a bunch of Assassins that don’t notice most of their side screaming HORUS WAS RIIIIIGHT? Do not spend any money on this if you don’t already have an Imperium army

The Chaos Marines are fighting an enemy that the Assassins are after, and therefore avoid getting in the way?
I dunno. It could be done last edition though and literally nobody complained.

True, however in that edition, they’d have to be kept far apart. You wouldn’t want an Eversor rubbing shoulders with a Dark Apostle in a sea of Cultists. For all it’s soup shenanigans, there was structural drawbacks to such extreme ‘come the apocalypse’ alliances.

 lindsay40k wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
I’m not sold on this just yet. It smacks of ‘glaring loophole that is absolutely not going to survive FAQ’. Come on, Cypher requisitioning a bunch of Assassins that don’t notice most of their side screaming HORUS WAS RIIIIIGHT? Do not spend any money on this if you don’t already have an Imperium army

The Chaos Marines are fighting an enemy that the Assassins are after, and therefore avoid getting in the way?
I dunno. It could be done last edition though and literally nobody complained.

True, however in that edition, they’d have to be kept far apart. You wouldn’t want an Eversor rubbing shoulders with a Dark Apostle in a sea of Cultists. For all it’s soup shenanigans, there was structural drawbacks to such extreme ‘come the apocalypse’ alliances.

Outside deployment issues, rolling a 1 here and there wasn't something to be worried about, especially since Assassins aren't the types of units that live for a long time outside the Vindicare.

GW have had loads of time to fix soup, but they haven't, probably because it sells more models. I suspect if they faq'd assassin's it would be to explicitly allow chaos to take them. Then they open up chaos players to buying assassin models as well!

I am excited about the new shadowspear release but I kinda worry it might be just new models with limited new rules. Outside of the totally new Venomcrawler daemon engine, everything else actually already have rules. Just because it has a new model doesn't mean it will come with new rules.

We should at least get new formations at least though...

MrPieChee wrote:
GW have had loads of time to fix soup, but they haven't, probably because it sells more models. I suspect if they faq'd assassin's it would be to explicitly allow chaos to take them. Then they open up chaos players to buying assassin models as well!

I wouldn't count on it. They've had years to let chaos use drop pods, multimeltas, plasma cannons, storm shields, thunder hammers, etc.. Only recently they created a named Black Legion chaos lord who wields a thunder hammer, but I'm not sure that's really a sign of a new philosophy.

I think Forge World are the worst offenders in this regard, but I think I'd better not *totally* derail the thread with my thoughts on the matter.

I think it's more likely that CSM won't be able to use the assassins at all, and buying them with the explicit hope of using them long term might not be the best move.

Yesterday I attended to a local tourney and I found a guy with this funny list, I would like to share it with you:
Outriders det.
1 termy sorcerer
3x spawns
2x oblits

3x renegades knights with double gatling.

He did quite well but he was stopped by a brutal dark eldar list with 9 talos, 3 jets and 3 ravagers.

My poor Huron Blackhearth list was wiped away by mono knights list :-(

How well does a 3 BT Supreme Command work as an ally to CSM? I like when Skarbrand makes my cultists fearless.

Shadowspear "leaker" claims Obliterators are going up to 6 each. That means each squad of 3 is now shooting almost as much as four and half Obliterators would right now, and that additive strength is then probably multipled by the Cacophony you were already using on the squad.

If it's true, seems like a fair buff. Obliterators are kinda all-in, and also really inconsistent. This seems like a fair improvement, and 1 unit, perhaps even two, may actually become a competitive option now.

Adding in at least one unit of Oblits seems like a no brainer now. Of course, we also have to see if their points have gone up.

1) If the points cost of oblits haven't gone up at all, its christmas for us. The rest of shadowspear could be crap and it wouldn't matter.

2) Points cost went up, but Oblits are still reasonable for what they can now put out. Still a net win for us.

3) Points went up so much Oblits are almost unusable. Negative for us then.

And let's not forget about Formations. If there is one formation in there that allows us to reroll all 1s for everything (like the raven house Company of heroes strategem). Thats a huge boost to Oblits as well, because it means when we roll those d3 to determine our Str, AP and Dmg, we can reroll the 1s. Not to mention being able to reroll 1 to hit and 1 to wound.

Just one formation like that that can be applied to Oblits would make them so good. Suddenly, even if I had just one Oblits waiting to deep strike down, the opposing player would be sweating bullets because when it comes down, it will literally obliterate stuff!!!!

I need more details! lol

Well, considering the oblits are (rumored to) be units of 1-3 that are PL6 each, I'd say its safe to wager the price per model is going to skyrocket.
I'd wager its somewhere between 100 and 140 per model. my guess is leaning towards about 110.

If they are still good at the new price really depends on the finer details of the price itself, and what of the rumored changes is accurate.

People are also saying that they are gonna loose the INFANTRY keyword. This would explain the increase in number of shots.

 N0tThatGuy wrote:
People are also saying that they are gonna loose the INFANTRY keyword. This would explain the increase in number of shots.

Seriously? That would be so dumb. I mean, if they aren't infantry then what are they? Terminators are infantry, blightlords are infantry, so are mutilators. Its not like they are riding on some mount, or bike. What kind of justification would they have to not classify them as infantry? Even the daemons like bloodletters and horrors in the Chaos Daemon codex are classified as infantry...