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Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

tneva82 wrote:
Well not that requirement to take 3 broken good models is exactly hindrance
Not at all, however if you take only 1 per unit, it might "slip under the radar" for some opponents. Taking 3 will make it obvious and hopefully someone taking 3 at 65ppm, will get called out on this BS.
"Legal" or not, we can plainly see this isn't the correct points cost. Taking advantage of an oversight like this shows want kind of player you are and making it obvious might lead to the rejection of pick up games against you.
So, the "hindrance" is you not getting to play 40K anymore. At least not with friends who just wanna have fun with plastic figures and dice.

It might also mean that someone playing with the new model would need to buy 2 ShadowSpears for a "legal" minimum unit since it only comes with 2. So they'd have to spend significant cash for this abuse. Only to have that wasted when GW fixes the issue

On the Brightside, this disaster creates an opportunity for GW to put out an official update to their points, which could be less than 115ppm. Because even though there is no way it is supposed to be 65ppm, 115ppm is a bit on the high side for them. 100-105 seems a bit better

-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 14:16:22


   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Kirasu wrote:
Obliterators in chaos sm book 2.0 have them at a power level of 6, which is the updated version found in shadowspear. GW needs to do their job and shoot out a quick FAQ on the points typo. There is no "oh it has a long printer production cycle" BS excuse because they updated the PL!


Gw doesn't do fast faq's. They have their faq cycle and if we are lucky they stick with it. They never put the official clarification on da jump to faq for months either...

Next week should be answer unless big faq delays it

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in au
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






So, I know this is a bit preemptive, but do you guys think the next campaign book will finally bring the BAngels into the lime light and give them a formation thingy/maybe even a Primarised Dante? I know there was that rumour a while back about the 3rd campaign book being about BAngels, though can't remember where that was said. A Calgar treatment on Dante would probably get me to paint my Space Vampires again, and it seems like ages since the last time BAngels saw some love, except for maybe that winged chaplain figure with that disturbingly expensive book and tokens.

#allaboutmeandmyarmy
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Snugiraffe wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.

My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.

My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.


OK, so I'm firmly in the camp of 'no way 65ppm' but that aside, this example at the same time does show that 115ppm looks maybe a bit too expensive. I haven't gone and looked up the points, but if the Oblits were 345 per squad, none of them would have killed their points worth.
Just out of interest, would you have won the game even you had left 450 points' worth of other units off the table? You took out some annoying enemy units, perhaps it was enough to spoil your opponent's plans?
I ask because I have four of the new Oblits on my painting table and really love the models. So far, I've used a single one in two small games but it didn't get on well with my dice and was thus a total failure


Oh no, I lost the game due to the objectives. My opponets interceptors gave him the maneuverability he needed to capture both his base and mine. Our mission dictated that the person who owns both bases for a turn auto wins (Maelstrom cards missions). In addition, while the Oblits were great, they were quite easy to kill, even after he lost two of his armies heaviest hitters. When the game ended, I only have 1 of the oblits left on the table.

65 might be too little, but 115 is absurd. 90 seems a lot more realistic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
They are worth 345 easily. If you use a MoP to get them to a good profile, Vets and Endless Cacophony, they one-shot a 3++ Castellan, which is probably undercosted at just over 600.

3 Oblits easily make back their points at 345 in just one shooting phase, even if you count in another 200-300 points or so of support stuff.

They are just less of a spam 9 of them and more of a use 3 and exploit synergies.

They should probably lose deepstrike and/or go up to 150+ to be even reasonably on par with other firesupport units in the game that aren’t a Castellan.


Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 15:51:05


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 15:57:35


 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 Togusa wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.


You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






the_scotsman wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.


You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?


Yep.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Togusa wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.


You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?


Yep.

I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.


You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?


Yep.

I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.


So +1 to wound army wide is dumb.

But,

BS 2+ Rerolling 1's isn't? (Might as well not roll and just put a rule in that says one guy always misses and the rest will always hit)
Damage 2 ap-1 custodian bolters isn't?
Castellan Knights gun being 3D3 shots isn't?
Army wide AP-4 or both Genestealers and Eldar Shuriken weapons isn't?

Why is it only ever stupid when a Chaos fan would like something at least good?

Remember, Eldar pilots get in tanks and act normally.

Deamon engines, tanks, defilers, cultists. They can't have legion traits, making them all effectively useless.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Togusa wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.


You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?


Yep.

I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.


So +1 to wound army wide is dumb.

But,

BS 2+ Rerolling 1's isn't? (Might as well not roll and just put a rule in that says one guy always misses and the rest will always hit)
Damage 2 ap-1 custodian bolters isn't?
Castellan Knights gun being 3D3 shots isn't?
Army wide AP-4 or both Genestealers and Eldar Shuriken weapons isn't?

Why is it only ever stupid when a Chaos fan would like something at least good?

Remember, Eldar pilots get in tanks and act normally.

Deamon engines, tanks, defilers, cultists. They can't have legion traits, making them all effectively useless.


Of course the Daemon Engines and Cultists shouldn't get Legion traits. In not disagreeing on the vehicles bit trust me, but both the former aren't Marines.

Also a +1 to wound on everything goes a lot further than the rending effect of Shuriken weapons, Custodes are already 45 points minimum so complaining about their weapon being good is silly, and everyone knows Castellans are broken.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Hellacious Havoc




Forsaken wastes of Brandenburg

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
 Togusa wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.

Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.


Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..

Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?

Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?

Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?

Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?


Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.





I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.

Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.


You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?


Yep.

I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.


So +1 to wound army wide is dumb.

But,

BS 2+ Rerolling 1's isn't? (Might as well not roll and just put a rule in that says one guy always misses and the rest will always hit)
Damage 2 ap-1 custodian bolters isn't?
Castellan Knights gun being 3D3 shots isn't?
Army wide AP-4 or both Genestealers and Eldar Shuriken weapons isn't?

Why is it only ever stupid when a Chaos fan would like something at least good?

Remember, Eldar pilots get in tanks and act normally.

Deamon engines, tanks, defilers, cultists. They can't have legion traits, making them all effectively useless.


Of course the Daemon Engines and Cultists shouldn't get Legion traits. In not disagreeing on the vehicles bit trust me, but both the former aren't Marines.

Also a +1 to wound on everything goes a lot further than the rending effect of Shuriken weapons, Custodes are already 45 points minimum so complaining about their weapon being good is silly, and everyone knows Castellans are broken.


Only INFANTRY and BIKERS get to use VotLW, no? I like the idea of making that the army rule and DttFE the strat. That way, you get something that sets CSM apart from the loyalists, works against everyone and isn't situational. Sort of like a Chaos version of having Primaris Marines.

Edited to remove wall of text. Sorry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 17:06:25


DR:70+S+G++MB-IPw40k94#-D++A++/cWD143R++T(D)DM+
~11,000 pts painted

Bharring wrote:
At worst, you'll spend all your time and money on a hobby you don't enjoy, hate everything you're doing, and drive no value out of what should be the best times of your life.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Virules wrote:
If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.

 Virules wrote:
Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.



What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.

If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.

And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.

If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 16:56:44


   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!






People, geez... you CAN edit the quotes to remove most of the page long pyramid before you add a single sentance response.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

 Virules wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Virules wrote:
If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.

 Virules wrote:
Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.



What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.

If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.

And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.

If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.


You'd ban a guy who bought a new codex and used the points printed? Shadowspear isn't even in stock nor are the rules sold separately.

It is totally GWs fault, yet again, for being unable to handle point changes but let's not be extreme.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Kirasu wrote:
Spoiler:
 Virules wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Virules wrote:
If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.

 Virules wrote:
Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.



What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.

If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.

And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.

If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.


You'd ban a guy who bought a new codex and used the points printed? Shadowspear isn't even in stock nor are the rules sold separately.

It is totally GWs fault, yet again, for being unable to handle point changes but let's not be extreme.
I personally would not "ban" someone for an honest mistake, especially since it is currently a mess ATM. Mistakes can happen.
What I would do, however, is explain why 65ppm is incorrect and have that person adjust their list accordingly be we play. Ya know, have a discussion like adults.

If they player refuses, well I guess they'll get someone else to play, or I'd have to quickly add 100+pts to my list so that both sides are equal.
If it's a tourney, obviously the TOs judgment stands

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 17:55:19


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

 Virules wrote:


If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.


So a newer player that doesn't know how all this works and probably doesn't read message boards shows up to their first event with a list made from the Codex and gets banned because of an issue they're entirely ignorant about? Where's your local area? Cause I'd like to know where NOT to play if you guys are that extreme about a silly table top game.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
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Savannah

Guys, can we drop the hyperbole and ranting about the point costs of oblits? The newest publication is the 2.0 codex, so that takes precedence and they're 65pts and come in units of three. Is that a mistake? Probably, but there is no way to know what GW "meant" them to be priced at in the codex. Warglaives changed in cost between their release in Forgebane and the knight codex a couple of months later (and we can all come up with a pile of units whose costs are bafflingly far from reality). It could be 115, it could be 85, it could even be more. We just have to wait until the faq. I'm sure everyone can hold off for a week.

And before anyone starts complaining about bias, I don't play chaos, I'm just tired of checking in to see what the news might be and getting the same dross.
   
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The Netherlands

Noticed this WHTV schedule. Curious what the campaign update is.
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Edmonton, Alberta

 Platuan4th wrote:
 Virules wrote:


If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.


So a newer player that doesn't know how all this works and probably doesn't read message boards shows up to their first event with a list made from the Codex and gets banned because of an issue they're entirely ignorant about? Where's your local area? Cause I'd like to know where NOT to play if you guys are that extreme about a silly table top game.


I thru my shadow spear pamphlet in the trash before knowing about this rules controversy. Since it's safe to assume the book should be correct over a rules pamphlet from a unavailable box set. It's a strange situation and tbh no one is wrong here. It was probably a mistake, but no one should be put down for playing it as the rules have been given to them.
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah, having more armor and a giant gun blocking you kinda helps with that.

Having A GUN blocking you helps?
Are you saying this in good faith? Does that work for other armies too?

 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
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Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

tneva82 wrote:
Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.


Yes. The players useing a OOP verstion of the book.
   
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Steelcity

 Lockark wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.


Yes. The players useing a OOP verstion of the book.


That's not correct. GWs official statement is to use old codex + vigilus OR new codex. The 115 pts for oblits only appear in the shadowspear boxset, which is not either of those books.

Its obviously a typo, but GW makes an incredible amount of errors. If GW says to use codex + Vigilus as the official documents for CSM, why is a player wrong for using those?

Again, to repeat, the updated points for oblits are NOT in Vigilus Ablaze.

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 Virules wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Virules wrote:
If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.

 Virules wrote:
Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.



What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.

If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.

And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.

If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.


Offical GW Rules says the CODEX IS CORRECT UNTIL AN FAQ ADDRESSES IT.

It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
   
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tneva82 wrote:
Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.


Not to mention the people using power points with their 6 point Obliterators, which does line up across new codex and Shadowspear, just looking around and wondering what all this fuss is about.

I'm hoping (for the sake of my own sanity) this is all just internet posturing and in real life everyone here is (on the one side) ready to give players the benefit of the doubt and assume they're just reading the book at face value and aren't aware of the inconsistencies. On the other side, when this is calmly explained to them I'm sure people will take the sportsmanlike path and voluntarily not abuse an obvious mistake.

I'm now going to take my tiny flickering flame of faith in human decency, lock it in a lead-lined sarcophagus and never open this thread again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 20:06:00


 
   
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Dallas area, TX

 Togusa wrote:
It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
Good luck explaining why an already powerful unit got an increase in stats AND points in it's first release, only to have that new points cost ignored 2 weeks later in an OBVIOUS oversight.
And it is obvious given to copy=paste nature of the points line (which still has the "3" for models per unit, not 1-3 like the new datasheet)
Further evidence is with Shadowspear only including 2 Oblits, not 3. If the points are 100% 65ppm as you claim, the minimum units size also must be 3 as above, so GW doesn't even sell the minimum unit size in 1 box.

This is obviously a new situation that must have some logic applied, rather that parroting: Current Codex is correct! over and over

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 20:25:09


   
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Executing Exarch






GaroRobe wrote:
Feel free to post any conversions that you can find of him.
Looking at the 360 spin, it doesn't seem worth the effort. His chest wire connects directly into his head, so you'd need to fix that with greenstuff. Then you'd have to cut away at some of his fur cape, file down the helmet's neck joint, and see if it'd fit. I'm not saying it's impossible. I don't think it's worth the effort.

Would I like him better with the right helmet? Probably. Is it worth buying the model for? Not in my humble opinion.

Edit: This actually does look pretty cool.

Spoiler:


I changed his head and I just cut off the old one and put a new one in. Looks great and was super easy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 20:30:42


 
   
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Kansas, United States

 Galef wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
Good luck explaining why an already powerful unit got an increase in stats AND points in it's first release, only to have that new points cost ignored 2 weeks later in an OBVIOUS oversight.
And it is obvious given to copy=paste nature of the points line (which still has the "3" for models per unit, not 1-3 like the new datasheet)
Further evidence is with Shadowspear only including 2 Oblits, not 3. If the points are 100% 65ppm as you claim, the minimum units size also must be 3 as above, so GW doesn't even sell the minimum unit size in 1 box.

This is obviously a new situation that must have some logic applied, rather that parroting: Current Codex is correct! over and over

-


Current codex is correct!
   
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Just ignore the people that play 65 ppm oblits right now. I don't know why people keep coming back to this issue.

Also, the balance of obliterators, and the arguments that have gone back and forth in this thread for PAGES, clearly shows there's a lot of thought that GW has to put into the point cost and balancing of their units. It's almost like that's why they're the game designers and we aren't... Funny.
   
 
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