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No way! If done right, I find them to be super cool. I wouldn't do every army in lava bases, but I still find them to be awesome, especially for Dreadnoughts or things like the Avatar
jreilly89 wrote: No way! If done right, I find them to be super cool. I wouldn't do every army in lava bases, but I still find them to be awesome, especially for Dreadnoughts or things like the Avatar
I'm in full support of them if done right. I especially love them when there's lighting on the model from the lava.
Who fights on lava? I think winter bases are much better than lava. Helps the model stand out more, and when you have a full army you can really get a nice image of all the individual models standing out against their bases. I would love to see people using the lava bases as a Chronicles of Riddick ice world terrain
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This is what people look like when they get near lava:
Because at even a few feet away, the temperature of lava is circa 2,000 degrees F, which is hot enough to melt steel, depending on its composition. Any model with a little bit of lava beneath its feet should be bursting into flames / watching as their armor melts off the body followed immediately after by their flesh.
The only time that lava is even a tiny bit non-silly is when the model is based far away from the lava.
Or the Avatar of Khaine. Because, you know, he's made of lava.
No more or less so than winter bases, urban bases, Goblin Green bases, or anything else. I'll admit I see them almost exclusively on Salamander and Daemon armies though.
These guys dominate in the world of cliche bases. However, they are all well made and awesome when paired with the right armies. I have the mosaic bases on all of my sisters.
This is what people look like when they get near lava:
Because at even a few feet away, the temperature of lava is circa 2,000 degrees F, which is hot enough to melt steel, depending on its composition. Any model with a little bit of lava beneath its feet should be bursting into flames / watching as their armor melts off the body followed immediately after by their flesh.
The only time that lava is even a tiny bit non-silly is when the model is based far away from the lava.
Or the Avatar of Khaine. Because, you know, he's made of lava.
Well Space Marine armour is layered with Ceramite (highly heat resistant, uses on Gunships to protect vs melta. Also note that most space marines shown on Lava are Salamanders or Iron Hands, whose homeworlds are lavabased anyway. Chaos Space Marines live in all sorts of worlds in the Eye.
Eldar typically only see Fire Dragons and the Avatar on Lava bases. The Fire Dragons are similar to the Space Marines with fireresistant armour.
Dark Eldar, Tau, Imperial Guard, Orks, tend all not to have lava bases. Tyranids would rarely attack such a desolate world, but can destabilise the crust and cause volcanic eruptions. And I'm sure they can be built to withstand such temperatures.
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No. Exposed dirt with a few patches of grass bases are cliche.
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What objective/resource in your field of lava is worth fighting a land war over?
Rock is widely available in space.
Dirt and asphalt are common because people live on that.
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This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
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DarknessEternal wrote:What objective/resource in your field of lava is worth fighting a land war over?
Looking badass while you're fighting there?
Deadshot wrote:Well Space Marine armour is layered with Ceramite (highly heat resistant, uses on Gunships to protect vs melta.)
Sure, I guess it's possible for space marine plot armor to cancel out much of this (though not all. I mean, seriously).
However, if the space marine is wearing that much armor, they're going to be more than heavy enough to break right through the thin crust of rock on top of the lava that most lava bases imply. If the ground is really that rife with lava, they're going right through, and I don't know how long a space marine can survive while being literally dunked in molten rock.
... or what sort of a talking-to he'd get from the techmarine...
Iv used them on my WoC army... rather tidy job. i do like them buuut i spose there are times where i also rather like the opposite tubdra/snow bases too.
I dunno about cliche, but definitely pretty silly.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
These guys dominate in the world of cliche bases. However, they are all well made and awesome when paired with the right armies. I have the mosaic bases on all of my sisters.
I hope they don't get sued by GW for IP infringement on these ones...
DarknessEternal wrote:What objective/resource in your field of lava is worth fighting a land war over?
Looking badass while you're fighting there?
Deadshot wrote:Well Space Marine armour is layered with Ceramite (highly heat resistant, uses on Gunships to protect vs melta.)
Sure, I guess it's possible for space marine plot armor to cancel out much of this (though not all. I mean, seriously).
However, if the space marine is wearing that much armor, they're going to be more than heavy enough to break right through the thin crust of rock on top of the lava that most lava bases imply. If the ground is really that rife with lava, they're going right through, and I don't know how long a space marine can survive while being literally dunked in molten rock.
... or what sort of a talking-to he'd get from the techmarine...
Well it would depend on the armour, the Chapter and the writer in question. A Salamander comes from a planet rife with volcanic activity anyway, they are naturally fire/heat resistant, master crafted armour and the like. Iron Hands come from Medusa which is like Westeros from Game of Thrones on steroids. Half the time its reach temperatures low enough to freeze Necron Tomb centipede things and the other half its hotter than Australian summer. Plus Iron Hands are pretty tough and durable and probably have great armour due to their technophilia.
Likewise, some armours might be better than others. Mk II had exposed cables and the like so may melt away, whereas Mk VIII might be more heavily armoured and protected and allow them to withstand the heat for longer. Also understand that adamantium is incredibly fething strong. Obviously, different franchises have their own versions of it, but in comparison to X-men; In X-men, adamantium is indestructible to modern weapons and techinques and capable of withstand enormous temperatures. For example, in X-men 3,
Spoiler:
Wolverine is capable of walking towards Jean Grey/Pheonix, who has for the last 10 minutes of the film been vapourising people and buildings left right and centre, with temperature close to that of the sun
. Adamantium, being as tough as rumoured in the 40k universe (used in Land Raider hulls for example) might have a higher melting point than the lava did.
Then you have things like Terminator Armour which can survive inside a plasma reactor, so I'm sure it could manage lava quite fine.
Assuming that the adamantium would not melt, the biggest issue for the Marines would be the heat and the viscosity of the liquid and trying to move through it. As mentioned they have numerous ways to resist heat. Ceramite would be the first layer of protection. Then they can use their Sus-An membrane which can coat their skin in a waxy secretion that "protects against the void and extremes of temperature." Then you have things like bionics and natural heat resistance.
Once that's out of the way the only issue is the liquid itself. Lava is very thick and would be hard to move through quickly. It could also be very deep and the liquid leak through the mouthgrill and it the helmet.
And like I said, anyone who would be instantly incinerated by the lava, such as Guardsmen, are not usually seen on lava bases. It the planet is covered in melted rock, its time to send in the Astartes.
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I feel like there's a bit of misinformation in this thread. I haven't said anything because I'm not a lava expert, but none the less I'll share what I do know. Lava itself might be 1300 to 2200F... the air around it sure as hell isn't that hot, it takes about 500-1000F to ignite wood but then it burns at up to 3600F by comparison (prolly won't actually be that, but just to give some comparison). So yeah, it's totally possible to be walking around near lava.
It also won't melt everything like Ailaros is suggesting. The melting temperature of mild steel is ~2500F, titanium is more like ~3000. Yep, lava will get it hot, the hottest lava will turn steel white hot, the cooler forms of lava will get it cherry red. This person is shovelling lava:
Of course if you don't have something keeping you cool, you'll die very fast
Also, you probably won't just sink in to lava like Gollum did in LOTR. It's actually very dense and very viscous (thick). The cooler it is, the more viscous it will be. There are different types of lava, and some of them you could totally walk over...
Safe? No. Possible? Given the right circumstances, yeah. If an entire planet were lava, I'd suggest the air would be hot and stifling enough that it wouldn't be possible to survive... but this is science FICTION so who gives a damn, lol.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/01 10:08:41
I just need to swoop in briefly to remind everyone that a rocky, molten bit of terrain in no way means that the entire planet is constantly covered in lava.
Only Daemons are allowed to be on lava. Everything else is just ridiculous. Add to the fact that 97% of lava bases look like a puddle of urine under the mini. Keep it simple.
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Personally find it silly that these battle warriors are lugging along lava, snow, rubble, Buildings, and entire tech sectors to battle on a generally Green or Brown tables
Desubot wrote: Personally find it silly that these battle warriors are lugging along lava, snow, rubble, Buildings, and entire tech sectors to battle on a generally Green or Brown tables
They bring it along with them on their hover discs that they move around on to look cool.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I feel like there's a bit of misinformation in this thread. I haven't said anything because I'm not a lava expert, but none the less I'll share what I do know. Lava itself might be 1300 to 2200F... the air around it sure as hell isn't that hot, it takes about 500-1000F to ignite wood but then it burns at up to 3600F by comparison (prolly won't actually be that, but just to give some comparison). So yeah, it's totally possible to be walking around near lava.
It also won't melt everything like Ailaros is suggesting. The melting temperature of mild steel is ~2500F, titanium is more like ~3000. Yep, lava will get it hot, the hottest lava will turn steel white hot, the cooler forms of lava will get it cherry red. This person is shovelling lava:
Of course if you don't have something keeping you cool, you'll die very fast
Also, you probably won't just sink in to lava like Gollum did in LOTR. It's actually very dense and very viscous (thick). The cooler it is, the more viscous it will be. There are different types of lava, and some of them you could totally walk over...
Safe? No. Possible? Given the right circumstances, yeah. If an entire planet were lava, I'd suggest the air would be hot and stifling enough that it wouldn't be possible to survive... but this is science FICTION so who gives a damn, lol.
Convection is for weenies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/02 00:27:42
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DarknessEternal wrote: What objective/resource in your field of lava is worth fighting a land war over?
The shielded bunker in the middle of the molten crater left by your pre-battle orbital barrage?
The Chaos/Eldar/Archeotec artifact suspended or submerged in the middle of an open volcano?
The very rare Catachan Lava Bunny, which sadly can not be raised in captivity but is prized amongst gastronomists throughout the Segmentum for the liquorice-flavoured oil from its tail glands, and its left forepaw, which is best served pickled in brine and then snap-fried and served with shallots and a nice Cabernet Severny?
DarknessEternal wrote: What objective/resource in your field of lava is worth fighting a land war over?
The shielded bunker in the middle of the molten crater left by your pre-battle orbital barrage?
The Chaos/Eldar/Archeotec artifact suspended or submerged in the middle of an open volcano?
The very rare Catachan Lava Bunny, which sadly can not be raised in captivity but is prized amongst gastronomists throughout the Segmentum for the liquorice-flavoured oil from its tail glands, and its left forepaw, which is best served pickled in brine and then snap-fried and served with shallots and a nice Cabernet Severny?
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Also, you probably won't just sink in to lava like Gollum did in LOTR. It's actually very dense and very viscous (thick). The cooler it is, the more viscous it will be. There are different types of lava, and some of them you could totally walk over...
Given that Gollum basically fell into the hottest part of the volcano, where the lava would be the least viscous, surely the fact he sank is plausible.
Of course he would have burnt to a crisp almost immediately, but thats artistic license.
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I don't like them because real lava is really hot. Very few types of troops could stand on it (if your guys can be hurt by a flamer--they should be dying to lava). Then, on top of that, molten, glowing lava is also malleable and flowing, so not the type of terrain you are going to traverse with your heavy, metal-footed walker.
Then, on top of that, I don't like it because they are almost never on a lava board (which would also be annoying, since the treads would melt, and the fuel and ammo would cook off, and everybody would die). I know that people's bases can't match every board they play on, but lava fields are so annoying as a board that I really hate them. Either they are unbelievably safe (yes, it's lava, but your guys can stand here near it and hopscotch across these rocks, despite the incredible heat and poisonous gas), or they are unfun deathtraps (everything takes a STR 8 melta hit every round--rear armor if it matters).
I get that they look cool. They do look cool, but I think that it's regrettable that our own lack of familiarity with lava lets our mind over-ride the plausibility of the model and think "That's cool!". I can know that my mind looks at it and thinks it's cool, but then I get angry at my brain for being so gullible. I mean, it might look cool to have a base that's all crackling lightning. It might look awesome and neat, but we would probably look at it and go, "That doesn't work". Having a base that's blue sky and clouds might look cool too, but we would probably look at it and think, "How is the marine standing in midair?". However, we almost never look at a lava base and think "So, he's immune to molten lava, but I can hit him with a flamer?". While amazing looking bases can be pretty to look at, I don't like them all that much. You could have a base painted up like circuitry, or flowing illuminated characters, or neon tubes, too. They would all look cool, but I'd still rather the base be 'believable'. I hate seeing every Salamander perched over a lake of lava on the covers of novels too.
It's also weird to me that actual lava field bases (ones that are cooled, and not molten) are so scarce. That's really cool looking to me (especially seeing lava poured around charred trees and the like), but very few people do it, despite it being actually possible.
Da Butcha wrote: I don't like them because real lava is really hot.
Well, earth lava is hot. Maybe alien space lava is made from alien space rock that has a much lower melting point. Or it's actually the outflow from the famous Dark Chocolate Volcano of Cadburus IV, which has a much higher cocoa content than any other chocolate volcano in the sector, and is strategically important due to being really nice with a good hot cuppa.
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