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Which should I buy. I need help with the pros and cons of each so I can make a good decision. Which is better for what?

why not both?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Infact! Model your knight using the LR as a skate board!

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
why not both?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Infact! Model your knight using the LR as a skate board!

I want to but I'm not made of money. I mean he pumps out the IK for like 30 cents while they sell them for literally 175$. Their wiping them selves with gold bricks. But I would love both but for now just one.
IK using the LR as a skate board, hahahahaaaaa

A Knight. Land Raiders are sort of overpriced and situational. Imperial Knights are much more flexible and you can stick them in all sorts of lists and have them work. Plus, they have a S: D weapon. That's always nice.

Knight. Land Raiders are terrible.

But what are their stats and weapons? I know that the armour value of the LR is like f:14 s:14 r:14 and the redeemers and crusaders. But what are the IK stats.

The only good Land Raider is the one that's called the Spartan Assault Tank after you gave it the Ceramite upgrade. Either way, a Knight is probably going to be more beneficial.

In terms of effectiveness a Knight trumps a Land Raider.

Sure the Land Raider has more armor, but a knights sheer firepower (and its D Melee), speed, and its handy shield makes up for a slightly lower armor.

My own knight has cracked open Land Raiders of many different kinds like tin cans. None of them survived an encounter with my Knight. One of the most recent ones was a Chaos Land Raider which after dropping off its cargo got sliced in half by my knight who then turned around and cleaved a Demon prince in half (who had come from a challenge from one of the guys the land raider just let out.).



So its Knight all the way.


The only thing I can think a Land Raider would be better at would be long range AT work which a LC land Raider would be better for. but a knight should rarly be used for such a long range task. get it close

You can't transport Termies or Cents in a knight though. What does the rest of your army look like mate, that'll give us a better idea of what you need in your army.

Knights are superheavy walkers with 13/12/12 with a 4++ on 1 facing that you nominate at the start of your opponents shooting phase and deployment. 6 hull points and immune to everything bar explodes on the pen table (and even then you only take extra HP damage). One has a 2 shot battle cannon, the other has a 36" Str 9 ap 1 melta large blast. Both have Str D melee weapons. They are pretty good, but can be easily taken down by most armies if you opponent knows they are coming.

They also cost about 1.5 times a land raider in points (and $).

As said the Knight is the much better choice.
He's fast, has decent shooting weapons, and is deadly in cc.

 BACON! wrote:
But what are their stats and weapons? I know that the armour value of the LR is like f:14 s:14 r:14 and the redeemers and crusaders. But what are the IK stats.

We can't give you exact stats.

But we can give you an idea.

Knights cost about 1.5 times more than a Land Raider. They also have 50% more hull points.

They are 13/12/12 for armor values.

Their most important feature is that they are a Super Heavy Walker. On top of that, they have a Str D melee weapon and a couple different powerful main weapons.

The Rapid-fire Battlecannon is basically just a Battlecannon that gets two shots. The other version has a 36" large blast melta cannon. The battle cannon version has 2 heavy stubbers and the melta cannon has 1 stubber. The Stubbers are really just there to allow you to tag your preferred assault target.

Knights also have the Ion Shield rule. This means that a knight has a 4+ invulnerable save against any hits on one of its facings. You get to change the facing at the beginning of each of your opponents shooting phases. And the shield remains in that facing for one full turn.

Depends.

Want sheer destructive power? = Knight
Want flexibility? = Knight
Want an awesome looking model? = Knight
Want a very strong weapon that can insta-gib most things? = Knight
Want to lose friends due to excessive Gorgonzola in matches under 1.85K points = Knight


The Knight for randoms and tournaments, but don't plan on using it in friendly games - I bought a Landraider for use against friends for this reason.

A knight in a friendly game is fine, as long as your opponent is aware.... multiple knights is where they get really... "competitive" shall we say?

I do like the Land Raider Achilles though if you are looking at land raiders. Not assaulty, but has tons of firepower and a way to reduce the damage table once it is penned.

 BACON! wrote:
Which should I buy. I need help with the pros and cons of each so I can make a good decision. Which is better for what?

do you want to piss everyone off at your local gaming group? yes? buy the knight then.

For other intents and purposes get the Land Raider. All around 14 and 4 HP instead of 3 is pretty solid. The LR's only real weakness is melta. Very few games have seen my LR get glanced to death. Their main purpose is to get one of your assaulty squads to charge out of them so they arent exposed to shooting other than overwatch for their initial charge.

Everything else is just gravy. Like POTMS allowing you to move 6" and fire 2 main weapons, both at different targets or pop smoke and then fire 1 weapon at normal BS. This way you can even field a normal LR and have it target two tanks with its 2 tl-Lascannons while simultaneously moving forward.

As a BT player I get to use my LRCs as DTs for my Crusader squad - that way they dont take up a Heavy slot, leaving room for other stuff and the full brunt of my cc initiate squad can be unleashed upon the enemy without me taking casualties.

Also its handy that I dont have to buy another codex to field the unit, compared to the IK.

LR if you want to have friends. Knight if you want to win.

More seriously it depends entirely on what Land Raider. Of the vehicles there are plastic kits for the base LR Phobos (the one that's just labeled "Land Raider") is schizoid and bad, and the Crusader and Redeemer are effective close support/assault transports (fine, but not tournament-competitive). The Knight is a walking ball of death that will wreck anything it gets into melee with, it's very underpriced for what it does. I don't suggest fielding either at all if you're playing under 1,500pts since both vehicles basically require the other guy to list-tailor to have a chance of beating at 1k-1250.

The going consensus of LR is that they are bad. I use the LR that most call the "worst" LR. In reality it's the most usable. LR are armor 14 but melta doesn't really care about that so the key is to keep from getting meltaed. So sitting back shooting laz cannons all game actually ends up beings it's best use - put 5 assualt terms in them and counter assault anything that comes in range. Every game it's not insta-gibbed it pays for itself. It's only downfall is it can only hold 10 mods or 5 terms - so the assault units you put in them aren't going to be full strength if you put an HQ there. Deploy troops around it so it cant get melta dropped. Knight is kinda like a LR in the sense that it is useless if your opponent has a lot of melta - taking knights vs melta is like talking terminator tactical squads vs crisis suits with plasma in fusion blaster...it just doesn't work. All I can say is both look awesome and both cost a lot of dollars and points - making them a huge financial and tactical risk.

Just curious though, CSM player here, can Chaos legally bring Imperial Knights to the table with the new FW booklet? Because I've got some cash for Christmas and I'd like to splurge like the OP.

 BACON! wrote:
Which should I buy. I need help with the pros and cons of each so I can make a good decision. Which is better for what?

Its like comparing apples to cumquats...

What do you have army wise? do you need one or the other? do you like having friends? how competitive is your meta? will you be the only one with a knight?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Just curious though, CSM player here, can Chaos legally bring Imperial Knights to the table with the new FW booklet? Because I've got some cash for Christmas and I'd like to splurge like the OP.

I see soooo many conversion so it must be possible.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Just curious though, CSM player here, can Chaos legally bring Imperial Knights to the table with the new FW booklet? Because I've got some cash for Christmas and I'd like to splurge like the OP.

You can ally yourself with Tyranids if you want to, just need to start your units more than 12" from them.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Just curious though, CSM player here, can Chaos legally bring Imperial Knights to the table with the new FW booklet? Because I've got some cash for Christmas and I'd like to splurge like the OP.

You can ally yourself with Tyranids if you want to, just need to start your units more than 12" from them.

Well I wouldn't want to bring it as an ally.

Then you're out of luck, as everyone bar the imperials have to take them as allies, only imperials get the option to take them as lords of war.

to the OP:

if you can stretch to a land raider achillies (achillies alpha maybe?) then go for that - funky rules ahoy!

i cant really recommend you to buy an imperial knight though because mine just gets shot down in the first or second turn routinely, its a big target so most things can see it and it has to get to something before it can use that d-weapon.

have a look at anvillus pattern drop pods - you can get at least two for less points than a basic LR or three for the points of the knight. only downside is its a fast attack choice and only come in squadrons of one. :[

the kharibdis assault claw is a heavy support choice which is basically the same but with additional separately firing missile launchers, but it also comes singly and it costs 260 points.

The achillies seems kinda meh as the second it comes in contact with the knight, it probably will die.

Just alpha striking it with enough MSU seems to be the best way to take it down. by mitigating the shield.

edit: Oh jesus just realzied i posted in the wrong thread about knights

O well

The achillies is silly and you will probably lose friends when they cannot kill it

The knight is honestly not that scary when it comes in 1s but when you spam it it will be bad.

i absolutely agree, but i don't think he's saying which would win in a math-hammer situation; i think he is having to choose which to buy as an additional to his existing army and my experience with the two units is that the land raider achillies with its ferromantic invulnerability gets shot at for a bit and then left alone; while the knight has bitten the dust and taken out a bunch of my own troops with it so regularly i cant bring myself to recommend one.

it's like what jeremy clarkson said about alfa romeo's - absolutely adores them but couldn't honestly recommend a friend to let himself in for the hardship!

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Just curious though, CSM player here, can Chaos legally bring Imperial Knights to the table with the new FW booklet? Because I've got some cash for Christmas and I'd like to splurge like the OP.

You can ally yourself with Tyranids if you want to, just need to start your units more than 12" from them.

Well I wouldn't want to bring it as an ally.

Unfortunately no Chaos Knights, you'd have to ally them in

 Wyzilla wrote:
Just curious though, CSM player here, can Chaos legally bring Imperial Knights to the table with the new FW booklet? Because I've got some cash for Christmas and I'd like to splurge like the OP.

Chaos Knights (Subjugators and Questors in particular, as well as other unnamed "vile corruptions of our noble Knights") are hinted all over IA:13. Looks like GW/FW are setting up the scene for a Chaos Knight release sometime in the near future.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 BACON! wrote:
Which should I buy. I need help with the pros and cons of each so I can make a good decision. Which is better for what?

do you want to piss everyone off at your local gaming group? yes? buy the knight then.

I fail to see how 1 Knight will piss everyone off, 1 is not exactly hard to deal with...

 Zande4 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 BACON! wrote:
Which should I buy. I need help with the pros and cons of each so I can make a good decision. Which is better for what?

do you want to piss everyone off at your local gaming group? yes? buy the knight then.

I fail to see how 1 Knight will piss everyone off, 1 is not exactly hard to deal with...

Some armies just can't deal with it. Cheesy melta alpha strike lists love going against them.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 BACON! wrote:
Which should I buy. I need help with the pros and cons of each so I can make a good decision. Which is better for what?

do you want to piss everyone off at your local gaming group? yes? buy the knight then.

I fail to see how 1 Knight will piss everyone off, 1 is not exactly hard to deal with...

Some armies just can't deal with it. Cheesy melta alpha strike lists love going against them.

You don't really have to kill it. I play pretty much exclusively Tyranids (My other armies are just painting projects) and even without Dakkarants a single Knight is still pretty easy to preoccupy with MSU spam. Yes multiple Knights are just simply too much for some armies but a single Knight should never be an absolute meta changer for an area.