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Magpie wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:While the leo2 looks like it has a shotrap, in reality projectiles hitting the armor don't bounce into the top of the hull or turret ring, they generally shatter or go left/right instead of down, it's actually very well designed ('dem germans know their tank design )

urban warfare makes a lot of things different in many ways, as things are harder to locate/target/identify and there's more considerations regarding collateral damage, but in general, many modern weapons wouldn't have issues with Space Marines the way some think they do as long as the Space Marine could be targeted (e.g. they knew generally where he was).


For some reason, when you said that I remembered that , when Canada announced they were opting for the Leo II over the Stryker, some moron was on TV opposing the move and asked 'And what do Germans know about tank design?" and I rofled

I agree on the marines thing, I was just commenting that the old saying goes out the window in urban combat just because you run into places you can see them, but can't transverse far enough due to obstructions, or can't elevate enough. Then you get to call for close air support or arty and hope they can winkle them out, and that doesn't always worth either, so then the foot slogger's get to go in....


Someone seriously said that about the Germans?

Guess they didn't study World War 2 in history


You mean the bit where they got their arses handed to them on a plate?
Germans didn't know squat about tank design, otherwise they would have built 1000's of reasonable tanks rather than a handful of uber tanks, that were comprehensively out fought on all fronts and turned out not to be as uber as they thought.

What is the greatest tank ever made, the one that has fought more battles than any other, won more battles than any other, in more terrains than any other and served longer than any other tank, in fact is still in service today ?

THE CENTURION

The supposedly crap British tanks design of WW2 has proven itself superior to all comers on all fronts. If you want to know how to build a tank ask the Brits.
Once we Aussies gave them the idea and showed them how to use them they actually did quite well


Funny because the colonies played a smaller role than most nation in the war.

Also, thinking the Aussies revolutionized armoured warfare LOL.

   
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Magpie wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:While the leo2 looks like it has a shotrap, in reality projectiles hitting the armor don't bounce into the top of the hull or turret ring, they generally shatter or go left/right instead of down, it's actually very well designed ('dem germans know their tank design )

urban warfare makes a lot of things different in many ways, as things are harder to locate/target/identify and there's more considerations regarding collateral damage, but in general, many modern weapons wouldn't have issues with Space Marines the way some think they do as long as the Space Marine could be targeted (e.g. they knew generally where he was).


For some reason, when you said that I remembered that , when Canada announced they were opting for the Leo II over the Stryker, some moron was on TV opposing the move and asked 'And what do Germans know about tank design?" and I rofled

I agree on the marines thing, I was just commenting that the old saying goes out the window in urban combat just because you run into places you can see them, but can't transverse far enough due to obstructions, or can't elevate enough. Then you get to call for close air support or arty and hope they can winkle them out, and that doesn't always worth either, so then the foot slogger's get to go in....


Someone seriously said that about the Germans?

Guess they didn't study World War 2 in history


You mean the bit where they got their arses handed to them on a plate?
Germans didn't know squat about tank design, otherwise they would have built 1000's of reasonable tanks rather than a handful of uber tanks, that were comprehensively out fought on all fronts and turned out not to be as uber as they thought.

What is the greatest tank ever made, the one that has fought more battles than any other, won more battles than any other, in more terrains than any other and served longer than any other tank, in fact is still in service today ?

THE CENTURION

The supposedly crap British tanks design of WW2 has proven itself superior to all comers on all fronts. If you want to know how to build a tank ask the Brits.
Once we Aussies gave them the idea and showed them how to use them they actually did quite well


Funny because the colonies played a smaller role than most nation in the war.

Also, thinking the Aussies revolutionized armoured warfare LOL.


The wink mate is because the idea is a little out there and perhaps not an easy claim to make. It is difficult to attribute the creation of the tank to any one person HOWEVER the British were the first to field a tank and first showed real interest in the idea in 1914, however a design for a tank had been submitted to them by an Australian engineer in 1912. It is debatable however how much this influenced the later creation of the tank but the engineer Lancelot DeMole was later compensated for his input.

The first truly successful employment of armour on the battlefield was at the Battle of Amiens in 1918. At that battle the combined arms tactics that had been employed at the Battle of Hamel by the Australian Corps (with the newly arrived US forces under command), were developed to their full extent and the attack was resounding success. General Monash the Australian Corps commander was instrumental in developing these new tactics of combined arms warfare.

A little out there, mostly unheard of, but far from a LOL

If you want to discuss this further tho' start another thread

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/03 04:02:11


 
   
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Magpie wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Magpie wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:While the leo2 looks like it has a shotrap, in reality projectiles hitting the armor don't bounce into the top of the hull or turret ring, they generally shatter or go left/right instead of down, it's actually very well designed ('dem germans know their tank design )

urban warfare makes a lot of things different in many ways, as things are harder to locate/target/identify and there's more considerations regarding collateral damage, but in general, many modern weapons wouldn't have issues with Space Marines the way some think they do as long as the Space Marine could be targeted (e.g. they knew generally where he was).


For some reason, when you said that I remembered that , when Canada announced they were opting for the Leo II over the Stryker, some moron was on TV opposing the move and asked 'And what do Germans know about tank design?" and I rofled

I agree on the marines thing, I was just commenting that the old saying goes out the window in urban combat just because you run into places you can see them, but can't transverse far enough due to obstructions, or can't elevate enough. Then you get to call for close air support or arty and hope they can winkle them out, and that doesn't always worth either, so then the foot slogger's get to go in....


Someone seriously said that about the Germans?

Guess they didn't study World War 2 in history


You mean the bit where they got their arses handed to them on a plate?
Germans didn't know squat about tank design, otherwise they would have built 1000's of reasonable tanks rather than a handful of uber tanks, that were comprehensively out fought on all fronts and turned out not to be as uber as they thought.

What is the greatest tank ever made, the one that has fought more battles than any other, won more battles than any other, in more terrains than any other and served longer than any other tank, in fact is still in service today ?

THE CENTURION

The supposedly crap British tanks design of WW2 has proven itself superior to all comers on all fronts. If you want to know how to build a tank ask the Brits.
Once we Aussies gave them the idea and showed them how to use them they actually did quite well


Funny because the colonies played a smaller role than most nation in the war.

Also, thinking the Aussies revolutionized armoured warfare LOL.


The wink mate is because the idea is a little out there and perhaps not an easy claim to make. It is difficult to attribute the creation of the tank to any one person HOWEVER the British were the first to field a tank and first showed real interest in the idea in 1914, however a design for a tank had been submitted to them by an Australian engineer in 1912. It is debatable however how much this influenced the later creation of the tank but the engineer Lancelot DeMole was later compensated for his input.

The first truly successful employment of armour on the battlefield was at the Battle of Amiens in 1918. At that battle the combined arms tactics that had been employed at the Battle of Hamel by the Australian Corps (with the newly arrived US forces under command), were developed to their full extent and the attack was resounding success. General Monash the Australian Corps commander was instrumental in developing these new tactics of combined arms warfare.

A little out there, mostly unheard of, but far from a LOL

If you want to discuss this further tho' start another thread


Entire thread for it would be too OT and modquisition would lock it immediately.

Either way, dozens of designs for tanks had been submitted at that time, and they were already researching/slowly uparmouring cars little by little.

And armour had been an effective tool in many battles before the battle of Amiens. The only real failure of them to that point was at Passchendaele because of the waist high (or higher) mud.

   
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im2randomghgh wrote:
You mean the bit where they got their arses handed to them on a plate?
Germans didn't know squat about tank design, otherwise they would have built 1000's of reasonable tanks rather than a handful of uber tanks, that were comprehensively out fought on all fronts and turned out not to be as uber as they thought.


Yes, outfought, by forcing them to be abandoned due to lack of fuel or hit with dive bombers and/or artillery. What was Wittman's record again? 14 allied tanks and 15 personnel carriers in 15 min? Not bad for a lone tank without support.

And if by 'handful' you mean 'as many as all other powers, except the US and Russia, combined' then, sure.

It wasn't so much that they focused on producing ubertanks as their ability to replace tanks was crippled and weak compared to allied industry. The fact they tried to produce ubertanks was actually in response to the realization they they could never hope to match Russia in sheer numbers. Until the British put a 17 pounder on a US Sherman, the Western front really didn't have a tank that could take a Panther or Tiger on. Panthers shrugged off direct hits to weak points from the measly 75mm Sherman main gun. Their only real strategy was to try and track it and then rush it with four Shermans to get at least one around to it's back side to try and get the kill. It didn't always work.

Tigers were worse. King Tigers, much worse. They used to call it 'Tiger fever' for a reason.



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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BaronIveagh wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
You mean the bit where they got their arses handed to them on a plate?
Germans didn't know squat about tank design, otherwise they would have built 1000's of reasonable tanks rather than a handful of uber tanks, that were comprehensively out fought on all fronts and turned out not to be as uber as they thought.


Yes, outfought, by forcing them to be abandoned due to lack of fuel or hit with dive bombers and/or artillery. What was Wittman's record again? 14 allied tanks and 15 personnel carriers in 15 min? Not bad for a lone tank without support.

And if by 'handful' you mean 'as many as all other powers, except the US and Russia, combined' then, sure.

It wasn't so much that they focused on producing ubertanks as their ability to replace tanks was crippled and weak compared to allied industry. The fact they tried to produce ubertanks was actually in response to the realization they they could never hope to match Russia in sheer numbers. Until the British put a 17 pounder on a US Sherman, the Western front really didn't have a tank that could take a Panther or Tiger on. Panthers shrugged off direct hits to weak points from the measly 75mm Sherman main gun. Their only real strategy was to try and track it and then rush it with four Shermans to get at least one around to it's back side to try and get the kill. It didn't always work.

Tigers were worse. King Tigers, much worse. They used to call it 'Tiger fever' for a reason.



WHY DID YOU PUT MY NAME IN THE QUOTE? IM NOT THE ONE WHO SAID IT

   
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An ork can smash a spacemarines head in with a blunt axe.... sooo i wouldn't give them too much creed
   
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Take it to another thread guys, if it shouldn't be discussed in another thread then even less so here.

Sorry for the misquote im2randomghgh

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/03 09:41:15


 
   
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...urrrr... I dunno

khaosspacemarines wrote:An ork can smash a spacemarines head in with a blunt axe.... sooo i wouldn't give them too much creed


An ork can also pull an average human's arms off without trying too hard. Killing a SM isn't exactly unheard of, for an ork.

Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.

Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
 
   
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
khaosspacemarines wrote:An ork can smash a spacemarines head in with a blunt axe.... sooo i wouldn't give them too much creed


An ork can also pull an average human's arms off without trying too hard. Killing a SM isn't exactly unheard of, for an ork.


Most people seem to miss that orks are usually about 6'6 and several hundred pounds, being described as having "legs like tree trunks" and despite their height, still being disproportionately bulky, muscular, strong and tough,

   
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...urrrr... I dunno

im2randomghgh wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
khaosspacemarines wrote:An ork can smash a spacemarines head in with a blunt axe.... sooo i wouldn't give them too much creed


An ork can also pull an average human's arms off without trying too hard. Killing a SM isn't exactly unheard of, for an ork.


Most people seem to miss that orks are usually about 6'6 and several hundred pounds, being described as having "legs like tree trunks" and despite their height, still being disproportionately bulky, muscular, strong and tough,


Indeedy. Pound for pound, the marine wins out through strength and reaction speed, when it comes down to it. The average ork is, as the professionals tell us, a complete badass.

Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.

Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
 
   
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A ruger 10/22 would destroy a Space Marine.
   
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
khaosspacemarines wrote:An ork can smash a spacemarines head in with a blunt axe.... sooo i wouldn't give them too much creed


An ork can also pull an average human's arms off without trying too hard. Killing a SM isn't exactly unheard of, for an ork.


Most people seem to miss that orks are usually about 6'6 and several hundred pounds, being described as having "legs like tree trunks" and despite their height, still being disproportionately bulky, muscular, strong and tough,


Indeedy. Pound for pound, the marine wins out through strength and reaction speed, when it comes down to it. The average ork is, as the professionals tell us, a complete badass.


The fact that marines over power them at all is proof of their badassery.


   
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im2randomghgh wrote:
WHY DID YOU PUT MY NAME IN THE QUOTE? IM NOT THE ONE WHO SAID IT


Sorry about that. Does occasionally happen on forums.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Vaktathi wrote:
One will also notice that the tanks in the arsenals of modern armies bear much more of a resemblance to German tank design theory than that of their opponents. Today's tanks are *very* expensive, *very* complicated, *very* advanced machines requiring huge amounts of maintenance with ridiculous amounts of armor and firepower designed to fight just as the Wehrmacht did primarily, sharp, fast, violent and decisive battles and not wars of attrition. Hell, the US has only produced about as many M1's as the germans made Panther's, every "new" M1A2 that's built now (and for many years now) is built using an existing refurbished chassis/turret/engine of a tank that was retired/recovered and stripped, if we lost a third of them in a conflict, it'd take us the better part of a decade to replace them. Not even the Russians are putting out cheap/huge quantity designs anymore, a kitted T-90 costs almost as much as an M1 Abrams or Leopard 2 does to produce (4.somethingmillion to 5-6somethingmillion). Tanks today are designed and built much more in the vein of the Tiger and Panther than they T-34 or Sherman.

Ironically, being a WW2 tech nut, can't say that nazi designs were that much original. Panthera's and Tiger-B's hulls/turrets were inspired by soviet designs, Artsturms began it's life as commerciall order from USSR. And only part what was de facto german invention was dedicated tank commander with cupola ,which soviet medium tanks lacked due to technological reasons.Of course if by German traits you mean OVERcomplication - like "saucepan" chassis or zimmerit coating (reasons for which now are unknown)...

And concerning "mobilization" designs...why we need to produce such things while we have over 9000 functional T-72/T-80 and more than 3000 of T-64 and T-62 in storage? T-90 vs M1 price - is kinda unclear right now - last time i've checked UPGRADE of M1A2 to M1A2 SEP costs $2 mln while M1A1 construction kit (inc. used parts) costs Egypt $10.4 mln (vs ~ $3.5-4 mln for newly built T-90A).

On-topic - while being much harder targets than regular tank, SM not that small - it's as tall as soviet tank desings, and most probably shines like a christmas tree on thermals when active. And with HE shells with AINET(and Israely counterpart - radio command HE initiation thingie) i'd say SM will have hard time trying to survive. Also - well, Savage Scars shows that most SMs don't understand what laser designator beam is until hit by laser-guided munitions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/03 23:26:28


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im2randomghgh wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
khaosspacemarines wrote:An ork can smash a spacemarines head in with a blunt axe.... sooo i wouldn't give them too much creed


An ork can also pull an average human's arms off without trying too hard. Killing a SM isn't exactly unheard of, for an ork.


Most people seem to miss that orks are usually about 6'6 and several hundred pounds, being described as having "legs like tree trunks" and despite their height, still being disproportionately bulky, muscular, strong and tough,


Indeedy. Pound for pound, the marine wins out through strength and reaction speed, when it comes down to it. The average ork is, as the professionals tell us, a complete badass.


The fact that marines over power them at all is proof of their badassery.



SOOOO if an Ork can take out a Space Marine with his bear hands and a modern MBT can take out a Space marine.... does that mean an Ork can take down an MBT ?

 
   
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chyron wrote:like "saucepan" chassis or zimmerit coating (reasons for which now are unknown).


Zimmerit was to defeat Russian magnetic mines. If you tried to attach a magnetic mine to a tank with a zimmerit coating, it just fell off back into the foxhole with you.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Magpie wrote:
SOOOO if an Ork can take out a Space Marine with his bear hands and a modern MBT can take out a Space marine.... does that mean an Ork can take down an MBT ?

I do seriously image something like this :


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...urrrr... I dunno

Magpie wrote:
SOOOO if an Ork can take out a Space Marine with his bear hands and a modern MBT can take out a Space marine.... does that mean an Ork can take down an MBT ?


I'm not sure you understood the point.
An ork certainly has the capability to kill a marine in hand-to-hand combat; indeed, this is something orks do enough to be considered dangerous opponents by the SM.
However, on average the SM will still win; he's faster, slightly stronger, and has better armour.
Admittedly, the ork would probably have a go at taking on the MBT, even if he fails; orks are kinda like that.





...also, there's something to be said for orks actually having "bear hands."

Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.

Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
 
   
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Magpie wrote:
SOOOO if an Ork can take out a Space Marine with his bear hands and a modern MBT can take out a Space marine.... does that mean an Ork can take down an MBT ?


I'm not sure you understood the point.
An ork certainly has the capability to kill a marine in hand-to-hand combat; indeed, this is something orks do enough to be considered dangerous opponents by the SM.
However, on average the SM will still win; he's faster, slightly stronger, and has better armour.
Admittedly, the ork would probably have a go at taking on the MBT, even if he fails; orks are kinda like that.





...also, there's something to be said for orks actually having "bear hands."


I see what you did there.

Also, if the ork got close enough to the tank, he likely would have little trouble tearing the hatch off the tank and killing the crew. The space marine even less so, Also, in all these tank vs. SM scenarios people keep dreaming up, they seem to think the marine is charge the tank across an open field with kilometers long field of vision for the tank. In Know No Fear (guess what I'm reading right now?) two SM ambushed a column of cultists escorted by a terminator and a medium skimmer with an autocannon, and took it out with little difficulty (First one charged in amidst the cultists so that the vehicles couldn't fire on him, and when the vehicle moved closer for a better shot, the second marine jumped off a building onto the vehicle, killing it's crew, and killed the termie with the autocannon). This is more something they'd do, rather than charge across a prairie shouting FOR THE EMPRAH!

   
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im2randomghgh wrote:The space marine even less so, Also, in all these tank vs. SM scenarios people keep dreaming up, they seem to think the marine is charge the tank across an open field with kilometers long field of vision for the tank. In Know No Fear (guess what I'm reading right now?) two SM ambushed a column of cultists escorted by a terminator and a medium skimmer with an autocannon, and took it out with little difficulty (First one charged in amidst the cultists so that the vehicles couldn't fire on him, and when the vehicle moved closer for a better shot, the second marine jumped off a building onto the vehicle, killing it's crew, and killed the termie with the autocannon). This is more something they'd do, rather than charge across a prairie shouting FOR THE EMPRAH!


And, again, idiots. Cultists would have scattered on seeing the space marine, not stood around providing cover. And, again, plot armor: Since when have the forces of Chaos been concerned about Friendly Fire?


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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...urrrr... I dunno

BaronIveagh wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:The space marine even less so, Also, in all these tank vs. SM scenarios people keep dreaming up, they seem to think the marine is charge the tank across an open field with kilometers long field of vision for the tank. In Know No Fear (guess what I'm reading right now?) two SM ambushed a column of cultists escorted by a terminator and a medium skimmer with an autocannon, and took it out with little difficulty (First one charged in amidst the cultists so that the vehicles couldn't fire on him, and when the vehicle moved closer for a better shot, the second marine jumped off a building onto the vehicle, killing it's crew, and killed the termie with the autocannon). This is more something they'd do, rather than charge across a prairie shouting FOR THE EMPRAH!


And, again, idiots. Cultists would have scattered on seeing the space marine, not stood around providing cover. And, again, plot armor: Since when have the forces of Chaos been concerned about Friendly Fire?


He makes a point, Random. In Storm of Iron, the Iron Warriors repeatedly show absolutely no concern for their human troopers.
Hell, at one point, they shoot through them to get at the Imperial Fists and guardsmen.

Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.

Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
 
   
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:The space marine even less so, Also, in all these tank vs. SM scenarios people keep dreaming up, they seem to think the marine is charge the tank across an open field with kilometers long field of vision for the tank. In Know No Fear (guess what I'm reading right now?) two SM ambushed a column of cultists escorted by a terminator and a medium skimmer with an autocannon, and took it out with little difficulty (First one charged in amidst the cultists so that the vehicles couldn't fire on him, and when the vehicle moved closer for a better shot, the second marine jumped off a building onto the vehicle, killing it's crew, and killed the termie with the autocannon). This is more something they'd do, rather than charge across a prairie shouting FOR THE EMPRAH!


And, again, idiots. Cultists would have scattered on seeing the space marine, not stood around providing cover. And, again, plot armor: Since when have the forces of Chaos been concerned about Friendly Fire?


He makes a point, Random. In Storm of Iron, the Iron Warriors repeatedly show absolutely no concern for their human troopers.
Hell, at one point, they shoot through them to get at the Imperial Fists and guardsmen.


In Know No Fear, the skimmer was piloted by a cultist (fresh cultist) who would obviously still care about friendly casualties. And the cultists were pretty zealous, that's why they stuck around. CSM would have no problem doing that. But either way, that same problem applies tenfold nowadays. In any place even vaguely well populated, they will not fire any munitions capable of dropping a space marine inside a house/building, or near one for fear of civilians inside and/or collateral damage and any infantry they send in WILL die.

   
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:The space marine even less so, Also, in all these tank vs. SM scenarios people keep dreaming up, they seem to think the marine is charge the tank across an open field with kilometers long field of vision for the tank. In Know No Fear (guess what I'm reading right now?) two SM ambushed a column of cultists escorted by a terminator and a medium skimmer with an autocannon, and took it out with little difficulty (First one charged in amidst the cultists so that the vehicles couldn't fire on him, and when the vehicle moved closer for a better shot, the second marine jumped off a building onto the vehicle, killing it's crew, and killed the termie with the autocannon). This is more something they'd do, rather than charge across a prairie shouting FOR THE EMPRAH!


And, again, idiots. Cultists would have scattered on seeing the space marine, not stood around providing cover. And, again, plot armor: Since when have the forces of Chaos been concerned about Friendly Fire?


He makes a point, Random. In Storm of Iron, the Iron Warriors repeatedly show absolutely no concern for their human troopers.
Hell, at one point, they shoot through them to get at the Imperial Fists and guardsmen.


In Know No Fear, the skimmer was piloted by a cultist (fresh cultist) who would obviously still care about friendly casualties. And the cultists were pretty zealous, that's why they stuck around. CSM would have no problem doing that. But either way, that same problem applies tenfold nowadays. In any place even vaguely well populated, they will not fire any munitions capable of dropping a space marine inside a house/building, or near one for fear of civilians inside and/or collateral damage and any infantry they send in WILL die.


Which God were these Space Marines dedicated to? Cultists live only to appease their gods, they don't care about each other. The fact that they had some members of the Traitor Legions with them shows that these cultists would be completely dedicated to the Gods, otherwise the CSM would have just killed them.

Lets look at that scenario from a tacticians point of view. Any civilians in the area are likely to be killed by the Space Marine, the outcome of a squad of our soldiers engaging him in close quarters will most likely result in a dead squad. We can either lure him into a prepared killzone or send a smart missile to his location.

Luring him to a killzone is risky. He may escape the ambush and will possibly kill some of our own fighting forces whilst doing so. Sending a smart missile into him will likely kill civilians but will kill the marine, which means that he cannot pose a further threat to our soldiers or other civilians. When facing an enemy with no regard for human life and no rules of conduct regarding unarmed civilians, civilians will die. It becomes a matter of limiting those casualties. If he is allowed to keep moving then more civilians are put at risk. Killing him with ordnance would be the best thing as in the long run it would save more lives. It is a cold way to look at it but when you're fighting for survival, it's the only way to do it.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




...urrrr... I dunno

im2randomghgh wrote:
In Know No Fear, the skimmer was piloted by a cultist (fresh cultist) who would obviously still care about friendly casualties. And the cultists were pretty zealous, that's why they stuck around. CSM would have no problem doing that. But either way, that same problem applies tenfold nowadays. In any place even vaguely well populated, they will not fire any munitions capable of dropping a space marine inside a house/building, or near one for fear of civilians inside and/or collateral damage and any infantry they send in WILL die.


I take it you're not familiar with how cultists operate, nor how they would react when confronted by a SM.
They wouldn't give a damn about their fellow cultists, even if they were "new," as that simply isn't how Chaos works.
Even if they did, the fear of being brutally killed by an SM - cause let's face it, it's gonna be brutal - might drive the Cultist in the skimmer to forget about camaraderie in an attempt to blow away the big and blue threat.

Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.

Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
 
   
Made in gb
Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne





If you repeatedly fired an RPG at an unarmoured one he might die.
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




...urrrr... I dunno

Ruarinator2 wrote:If you repeatedly fired an RPG at an unarmoured one he would explode like a balloon.


Corrected that for you.

Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.

Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Ruarinator2 wrote:If you repeatedly fired an RPG at an unarmoured one he would explode like a balloon.


Corrected that for you.


I think we're running into two basic divides in this thread. GW's inconsistent levels of how absurdly superhuman SM are, and between people who have used these weapons and seen what they do and those that have not.

The old Belgian Blindicide loaded with HEAT can turn two or three feet of concrete to dust in a shot. They say it can pen 300mm plate, but never tried it.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
 
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