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BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

Not sure what drugs you're on but there aren't any forge world models in the custodes codex.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forgeworld_Custodes_Datasheets.pdf

Looks like its been shelved so they focuss exculsively on MARINES for 40k - just like Gw....awesome.

This and the same for Sisters of Silence might have been a nice thing for Chapter Approved - bet its filled with more Marines stuff

... I'm sorry but do you really think a handful of 40k rules for an existing faction is the same as a army with no codex whatsoever?

Sorry what?

This is an offical bet codex - right? It has FW models in it - hence I answered your snarky question.

The Autumn of Marines (to contrast with the Spring, Summer and Winter of............. Marines)
1. Space Marine 2.0 dex with models,
2. then we had Supplements with models,
3. Now we have PA no 2 - 10 more pages of rules for for baseline Marines (despite just having a codex for feths sake) - oh and another Marine rules supplement for BlackTemplars.

I wonder what PA 3 will be full of..... could it be .....Marines

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Karol wrote:
Maybe Is it my english, although am not very fluent in polish either. I said, I understand that people not like having bad rules, I just don't understand how they could think that at some time they would get them. Am deeply suprised by it, because here everyone knows that good times are just a short break between long times of bad.

Am suprised that somehow eldar players were expecting that GW would be making good eldar rules. It is strange to me.

My problem with GK are that they are bad when I play them, if the uncoming CA made them awesome for a year, and then again they would be bad. I would be okey with them being bad again. The problem is that sometimes factions wait decades to get a good book. I don't even know what I am going to be doing in 2 years, 10 years is more then 2/3 of my life.

part of the problem with PA is it didn't really help the CWE or DE units that needed a bit of buff love, mostly the ones that have been copy/pastes for the last few editions, and even the rules that do help them are better on the already good units

Every aspect got better with maybe the execption of banshees...banshees didn't really get better.
3d6 pick the highest advance is great for fire dragons.
5++ save is great for swooping hawks
Dires got 2 good abilities - exploding 6's and +1tohit and wound after losing a model
Shinning spears got the absurd 3++ exarch and the also really good 6" pile in
Warp spiders can now come in RR all hits from DS or get a free move shunt on any turn
Crimsons got 2+ to hit ability
Scoprs can take -1 to hit in cover OR 5+ to deal mortals
Reapers got a free EML shot per squad.

You could realistically take any of these units but banshees and put them to great use if you so desired in in competitive. Not to mention ignore cover and always counts in cover for some really easy mode games. +4 inch shuriken range is also REALLY good. Plus the new warlock powers? Some of those are pretty good too.

DE did get pretty screwed but it's not like they really needed better rules. Realistically the Drazar buff makes taking 2 kabal batalions much more palpable. Plus now that you can take ynnari HQ's in detachments so you don't have to take 3 redundant archons. They did get some okay buffs to covens (I really don't care about covens). Scourges and mardrakes and incubi not getting their kabal traits is PRETTY effing weak though...they should really fix that...it is so annoying not getting my flayed skull trait on scourges.

Ynnari I feel got the most screwed. They are just so bad - no reason to ever play them.

You posted the same thing related to how good aspect warriors and I think you're misunderstanding that the units at their core aren't good enough to see competitive play. The Exarch traits only really buffed Shining Spears (still expensive), CHEs and Dark Reapers. The rest of the aspects weren't used before and they won't be used now except for screening, where someone used Swooping Hawks for their screening ability causing -2 to charge.

Realistically, no you can't take any of these units in competitive play because there are better units in the codex and they're outclassed by opposing armies.

Swooping hawks are a model issue IMO. They were already good enough to see play. They have great range and mobiliy and fire a ton of shots. S3 is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Plus they are quite cheap. Their issue is they are a crap fine cast model that literally no one can store them without breaking (all of mine had their wings come off on the regular). If they come out with new models I know I would include at least 2 5 man units to pressure objectives maybe with the 6 shot hawks talon ability or the 5++ save for larger units. They can also deal mortal wounds...the unit is pretty effing good in itc mission.

Warp spiders have also just been buffed huge. I don't know if they will start getting picked up now but with the ability to shunt turn 1 OR deepstrike in an reroll all hits - they are going to be good. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

I could friggin' kiss you right now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

I could friggin' kiss you right now.

.

Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Karol wrote:
Maybe Is it my english, although am not very fluent in polish either. I said, I understand that people not like having bad rules, I just don't understand how they could think that at some time they would get them. Am deeply suprised by it, because here everyone knows that good times are just a short break between long times of bad.

Am suprised that somehow eldar players were expecting that GW would be making good eldar rules. It is strange to me.

My problem with GK are that they are bad when I play them, if the uncoming CA made them awesome for a year, and then again they would be bad. I would be okey with them being bad again. The problem is that sometimes factions wait decades to get a good book. I don't even know what I am going to be doing in 2 years, 10 years is more then 2/3 of my life.

part of the problem with PA is it didn't really help the CWE or DE units that needed a bit of buff love, mostly the ones that have been copy/pastes for the last few editions, and even the rules that do help them are better on the already good units

Every aspect got better with maybe the execption of banshees...banshees didn't really get better.
3d6 pick the highest advance is great for fire dragons.
5++ save is great for swooping hawks
Dires got 2 good abilities - exploding 6's and +1tohit and wound after losing a model
Shinning spears got the absurd 3++ exarch and the also really good 6" pile in
Warp spiders can now come in RR all hits from DS or get a free move shunt on any turn
Crimsons got 2+ to hit ability
Scoprs can take -1 to hit in cover OR 5+ to deal mortals
Reapers got a free EML shot per squad.

You could realistically take any of these units but banshees and put them to great use if you so desired in in competitive. Not to mention ignore cover and always counts in cover for some really easy mode games. +4 inch shuriken range is also REALLY good. Plus the new warlock powers? Some of those are pretty good too.

DE did get pretty screwed but it's not like they really needed better rules. Realistically the Drazar buff makes taking 2 kabal batalions much more palpable. Plus now that you can take ynnari HQ's in detachments so you don't have to take 3 redundant archons. They did get some okay buffs to covens (I really don't care about covens). Scourges and mardrakes and incubi not getting their kabal traits is PRETTY effing weak though...they should really fix that...it is so annoying not getting my flayed skull trait on scourges.

Ynnari I feel got the most screwed. They are just so bad - no reason to ever play them.

You posted the same thing related to how good aspect warriors and I think you're misunderstanding that the units at their core aren't good enough to see competitive play. The Exarch traits only really buffed Shining Spears (still expensive), CHEs and Dark Reapers. The rest of the aspects weren't used before and they won't be used now except for screening, where someone used Swooping Hawks for their screening ability causing -2 to charge.

Realistically, no you can't take any of these units in competitive play because there are better units in the codex and they're outclassed by opposing armies.

Swooping hawks are a model issue IMO. They were already good enough to see play. They have great range and mobiliy and fire a ton of shots. S3 is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Plus they are quite cheap. Their issue is they are a crap fine cast model that literally no one can store them without breaking (all of mine had their wings come off on the regular). If they come out with new models I know I would include at least 2 5 man units to pressure objectives maybe with the 6 shot hawks talon ability or the 5++ save for larger units. They can also deal mortal wounds...the unit is pretty effing good in itc mission.

Warp spiders have also just been buffed huge. I don't know if they will start getting picked up now but with the ability to shunt turn 1 OR deepstrike in an reroll all hits - they are going to be good. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

Having brought Swooping Hawks to an ITC tournament myself two weeks ago, they were a points filler unit. In the games where I played against GEQs (IG and Tau) they were wonderful for clearing chaff but when push came to shove they didn't do enough/weren't strong enough to compete against anything else. I've kept trying them and the best use they have for now is screening against deepstrike with their suppressing fire.

It might be worth trying out Spiders, I like them a lot but right now I'm not seeing why I'd take them over the better units in the codex.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

I could friggin' kiss you right now.

For saying something I didn't say? By that comment that means those units we've been discussing still aren't good enough to see competitive play, because if they were, they'd push out the aforementioned competitive units from lists. As I said about Hawks above, they're good, but not quite there.

I wasn't trying to be offensive. It seems you are ruling out a few of the aspects because players aren't using them. That isn't a good reason is all I am saying. Between net listers and serious competition for point in the eldar codex a lot of good units get overlooked.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

For saying something I didn't say? By that comment that means those units we've been discussing still aren't good enough to see competitive play, because if they were, they'd push out the aforementioned competitive units from lists. As I said about Hawks above, they're good, but not quite there.

No no. Don't mistake me. I was just commenting on the general applicability of his comment. I wasn't taking it in context of any disagreements. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Hawks are kinda good? I think, if you don't have a better target for Protect, then a 10-hawk squad with Evade could be quite interesting. Masters of concealment and Protect would give them a 2+/4++ at over 12" away, at which point it's looking a bit annoying. Still, it's 133pts for S3 T3 infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(And by kinda good I mean 10 would do around 3 damage to marines. They don't like marines at all, and marines are gakking everywhere...)

Problem with Hawks is that they are over specialised. Really good at doing damage to chaff units and lightly armoured T4 units like Boyz but not much good against anything else, at that point you're better off going with Shuriken weapons because they're good at both.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wasn't trying to be offensive. It seems you are ruling out a few of the aspects because players aren't using them. That isn't a good reason is all I am saying. Between net listers and serious competition for point in the eldar codex a lot of good units get overlooked.

People are not ruling out units because they havent tried them and "nobody takes thise so they must be ttash". Any player worth their salt will experiment as new rules come out to try and out meta the meta... People are ruling out units because they have tried them and there are glaring inefficiencues when comparing to internal and external units.

 Argive wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wasn't trying to be offensive. It seems you are ruling out a few of the aspects because players aren't using them. That isn't a good reason is all I am saying. Between net listers and serious competition for point in the eldar codex a lot of good units get overlooked.

People are not ruling out units because they havent tried them and "nobody takes thise so they must be ttash". Any player worth their salt will experiment as new rules come out to try and out meta the meta... People are ruling out units because they have tried them and there are glaring inefficiencues when comparing to internal and external units.

I'd be much more willing to try with spiders and hawks if they didn't have such terrible models. I can't be the only one.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wasn't trying to be offensive. It seems you are ruling out a few of the aspects because players aren't using them. That isn't a good reason is all I am saying. Between net listers and serious competition for point in the eldar codex a lot of good units get overlooked.

People are not ruling out units because they havent tried them and "nobody takes thise so they must be ttash". Any player worth their salt will experiment as new rules come out to try and out meta the meta... People are ruling out units because they have tried them and there are glaring inefficiencues when comparing to internal and external units.

I'd be much more willing to try with spiders and hawks if they didn't have such terrible models. I can't be the only one.

I like Hawks. Spiders are pretty awful if you want to take more than two models of them though. They're one of many things GW can't be bothered to fix because moar mrns.

Swooping Hawks can have a place in a list, but they don't have much of a place in an all-comers style list. They're exceptionally fragile (the 5+ could help, but...still not enough). Their lasblasters are inexplicably 7 points, and I'm not sure why. A 4-point Guardsman can fire its lasgun four times at the same range with an order... A storm bolter is 2 points, but the lasblaster is 7. The mortal wound grenade pack is "okay", and I think the better stratagem might be the 5+ grenades. Mortal wounds are simply a good balancing bit if your Hawks are going to be swept off the table almost immediately.

With 24" range they can land and hamper just about anything. Against a solid Knight or heavy marine list they're less useful.

Warp Spiders are arguably one of the worst Aspects to me, but the new Exarch power gives them a purpose, if only in a slightly gamey/tournament way. Their ability to re-deepstrike could be huge. It's not limited to Turn 3, etc. It's any point during the game, so if you bring some in and keep them alive, that's massive potential to zip across the board and grab whatever objective or secondary objective you need, etc. Their gun is still pointless and their whole purpose is still...fuzzy at best. They can be hard to hit and have decent armour, but their guns aren't good at killing anything. Not enough shots to deal with chaff and not strong enough (no AP, except on '6') to really target bigger things. They're very confusing. They are relatively cheap and I think a clever player could use their new ability to win objectives - particularly since your opponent may not be aware of it for a while.

A lot of players will assume that once everything has deepstruck that's it...so the Spiders teleporting across the board again might catch people off guard.

 Imateria wrote:
Problem with Hawks is that they are over specialised. Really good at doing damage to chaff units and lightly armoured T4 units like Boyz but not much good against anything else, at that point you're better off going with Shuriken weapons because they're good at both.

So...Windriders or warwalkers.
60 point WW is really not bad but no fly and needing to get within 24" of their target will invite tie up charges - that scares me. 6 man hawks with a hawks talon (and the 6 shot ability for the exarch) costs 3 points more than a 3 man wind rider with SC. 9 shots compared to 26(with 6 being str 5). It is a big difference in firepower - especially if doom is applied.

The hawks can get into buildings. Can deep strike for free. Can cause mortal wounds to big units. Can redeploy from the table and deep strike in the next turn too. IMO they are a great unit and they were already great (they just have bad modles) with a pretty big buff for the cost of free...they will start seeing play - they are too good not to use at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Swooping Hawks can have a place in a list, but they don't have much of a place in an all-comers style list. They're exceptionally fragile (the 5+ could help, but...still not enough). Their lasblasters are inexplicably 7 points, and I'm not sure why. A 4-point Guardsman can fire its lasgun four times at the same range with an order... A storm bolter is 2 points, but the lasblaster is 7. The mortal wound grenade pack is "okay", and I think the better stratagem might be the 5+ grenades. Mortal wounds are simply a good balancing bit if your Hawks are going to be swept off the table almost immediately.

With 24" range they can land and hamper just about anything. Against a solid Knight or heavy marine list they're less useful.

Warp Spiders are arguably one of the worst Aspects to me, but the new Exarch power gives them a purpose, if only in a slightly gamey/tournament way. Their ability to re-deepstrike could be huge. It's not limited to Turn 3, etc. It's any point during the game, so if you bring some in and keep them alive, that's massive potential to zip across the board and grab whatever objective or secondary objective you need, etc. Their gun is still pointless and their whole purpose is still...fuzzy at best. They can be hard to hit and have decent armour, but their guns aren't good at killing anything. Not enough shots to deal with chaff and not strong enough (no AP, except on '6') to really target bigger things. They're very confusing. They are relatively cheap and I think a clever player could use their new ability to win objectives - particularly since your opponent may not be aware of it for a while.

A lot of players will assume that once everything has deepstruck that's it...so the Spiders teleporting across the board again might catch people off guard.

Point costs of weapons often don't reflect their true value. The total cost of the unit is all that matters. Gaurdsmen costing 4 is kind of...silly at this point but you basically get 3 per hawk. Realistically though hawks are one of the best units you have for removing guardsmen.

War Walkers can also deep strike for free in the form of outflank. A 60 point War Walker has battle focus, can challenge light armour and chaff. Its very durable with T6, 4+/5++ so it's excellent at being ignored or soaking up fire that would otherwise be directed elsewhere. 180 points for 18 wounds pumping 18 shots. If it gets tarpitted, who cares because the unit charging it probably costed more.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Karol wrote:
Maybe Is it my english, although am not very fluent in polish either. I said, I understand that people not like having bad rules, I just don't understand how they could think that at some time they would get them. Am deeply suprised by it, because here everyone knows that good times are just a short break between long times of bad.

Am suprised that somehow eldar players were expecting that GW would be making good eldar rules. It is strange to me.

My problem with GK are that they are bad when I play them, if the uncoming CA made them awesome for a year, and then again they would be bad. I would be okey with them being bad again. The problem is that sometimes factions wait decades to get a good book. I don't even know what I am going to be doing in 2 years, 10 years is more then 2/3 of my life.

part of the problem with PA is it didn't really help the CWE or DE units that needed a bit of buff love, mostly the ones that have been copy/pastes for the last few editions, and even the rules that do help them are better on the already good units

Every aspect got better with maybe the execption of banshees...banshees didn't really get better.
3d6 pick the highest advance is great for fire dragons.
5++ save is great for swooping hawks
Dires got 2 good abilities - exploding 6's and +1tohit and wound after losing a model
Shinning spears got the absurd 3++ exarch and the also really good 6" pile in
Warp spiders can now come in RR all hits from DS or get a free move shunt on any turn
Crimsons got 2+ to hit ability
Scoprs can take -1 to hit in cover OR 5+ to deal mortals
Reapers got a free EML shot per squad.

You could realistically take any of these units but banshees and put them to great use if you so desired in in competitive. Not to mention ignore cover and always counts in cover for some really easy mode games. +4 inch shuriken range is also REALLY good. Plus the new warlock powers? Some of those are pretty good too.

DE did get pretty screwed but it's not like they really needed better rules. Realistically the Drazar buff makes taking 2 kabal batalions much more palpable. Plus now that you can take ynnari HQ's in detachments so you don't have to take 3 redundant archons. They did get some okay buffs to covens (I really don't care about covens). Scourges and mardrakes and incubi not getting their kabal traits is PRETTY effing weak though...they should really fix that...it is so annoying not getting my flayed skull trait on scourges.

Ynnari I feel got the most screwed. They are just so bad - no reason to ever play them.

You posted the same thing related to how good aspect warriors and I think you're misunderstanding that the units at their core aren't good enough to see competitive play. The Exarch traits only really buffed Shining Spears (still expensive), CHEs and Dark Reapers. The rest of the aspects weren't used before and they won't be used now except for screening, where someone used Swooping Hawks for their screening ability causing -2 to charge.

Realistically, no you can't take any of these units in competitive play because there are better units in the codex and they're outclassed by opposing armies.

Swooping hawks are a model issue IMO. They were already good enough to see play. They have great range and mobiliy and fire a ton of shots. S3 is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Plus they are quite cheap. Their issue is they are a crap fine cast model that literally no one can store them without breaking (all of mine had their wings come off on the regular). If they come out with new models I know I would include at least 2 5 man units to pressure objectives maybe with the 6 shot hawks talon ability or the 5++ save for larger units. They can also deal mortal wounds...the unit is pretty effing good in itc mission.

Warp spiders have also just been buffed huge. I don't know if they will start getting picked up now but with the ability to shunt turn 1 OR deepstrike in an reroll all hits - they are going to be good. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

Str3 is real problem, my swooping haws really do any damage vs keqs and bounce vs megs.
Squad 20 shoots killed 2-3 boys, without doom they are worthless, one more finesse unit aeldar you take just to fill your list. They bounce hard on every T4 unit and the lack of AP is not helping.
They are good at going back into sky and steal some late game points(linebreaker), but they really lack killing power to compensate for that 13 pts price tag.
5++ on them is a waste, because they just save on 4+, bolters just shred them even in cover. There is no reason for them to be more than 11 pts.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
War Walkers can also deep strike for free in the form of outflank. A 60 point War Walker has battle focus, can challenge light armour and chaff. Its very durable with T6, 4+/5++ so it's excellent at being ignored or soaking up fire that would otherwise be directed elsewhere. 180 points for 18 wounds pumping 18 shots. If it gets tarpitted, who cares because the unit charging it probably costed more.

I`m also thinking about walkers, tough, cheap vehicle with invul is probably the best think CWE could bring in this SM madness.
I`m thinking also about Wraithlords with aeldar launchers.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
War Walkers can also deep strike for free in the form of outflank. A 60 point War Walker has battle focus, can challenge light armour and chaff. Its very durable with T6, 4+/5++ so it's excellent at being ignored or soaking up fire that would otherwise be directed elsewhere. 180 points for 18 wounds pumping 18 shots. If it gets tarpitted, who cares because the unit charging it probably costed more.

I agree they aren't bad. I always take starcannons though so it is a different roll.

I've used a min squad of scorpions for objective grabbing, 55 points is not much for a 2+ save in cover with a minus one to hit from the exarch. I wouldn't use them for much else but they're pretty good for this purpose.

Marin wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Karol wrote:
Maybe Is it my english, although am not very fluent in polish either. I said, I understand that people not like having bad rules, I just don't understand how they could think that at some time they would get them. Am deeply suprised by it, because here everyone knows that good times are just a short break between long times of bad.

Am suprised that somehow eldar players were expecting that GW would be making good eldar rules. It is strange to me.

My problem with GK are that they are bad when I play them, if the uncoming CA made them awesome for a year, and then again they would be bad. I would be okey with them being bad again. The problem is that sometimes factions wait decades to get a good book. I don't even know what I am going to be doing in 2 years, 10 years is more then 2/3 of my life.

part of the problem with PA is it didn't really help the CWE or DE units that needed a bit of buff love, mostly the ones that have been copy/pastes for the last few editions, and even the rules that do help them are better on the already good units

Every aspect got better with maybe the execption of banshees...banshees didn't really get better.
3d6 pick the highest advance is great for fire dragons.
5++ save is great for swooping hawks
Dires got 2 good abilities - exploding 6's and +1tohit and wound after losing a model
Shinning spears got the absurd 3++ exarch and the also really good 6" pile in
Warp spiders can now come in RR all hits from DS or get a free move shunt on any turn
Crimsons got 2+ to hit ability
Scoprs can take -1 to hit in cover OR 5+ to deal mortals
Reapers got a free EML shot per squad.

You could realistically take any of these units but banshees and put them to great use if you so desired in in competitive. Not to mention ignore cover and always counts in cover for some really easy mode games. +4 inch shuriken range is also REALLY good. Plus the new warlock powers? Some of those are pretty good too.

DE did get pretty screwed but it's not like they really needed better rules. Realistically the Drazar buff makes taking 2 kabal batalions much more palpable. Plus now that you can take ynnari HQ's in detachments so you don't have to take 3 redundant archons. They did get some okay buffs to covens (I really don't care about covens). Scourges and mardrakes and incubi not getting their kabal traits is PRETTY effing weak though...they should really fix that...it is so annoying not getting my flayed skull trait on scourges.

Ynnari I feel got the most screwed. They are just so bad - no reason to ever play them.

You posted the same thing related to how good aspect warriors and I think you're misunderstanding that the units at their core aren't good enough to see competitive play. The Exarch traits only really buffed Shining Spears (still expensive), CHEs and Dark Reapers. The rest of the aspects weren't used before and they won't be used now except for screening, where someone used Swooping Hawks for their screening ability causing -2 to charge.

Realistically, no you can't take any of these units in competitive play because there are better units in the codex and they're outclassed by opposing armies.

Swooping hawks are a model issue IMO. They were already good enough to see play. They have great range and mobiliy and fire a ton of shots. S3 is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Plus they are quite cheap. Their issue is they are a crap fine cast model that literally no one can store them without breaking (all of mine had their wings come off on the regular). If they come out with new models I know I would include at least 2 5 man units to pressure objectives maybe with the 6 shot hawks talon ability or the 5++ save for larger units. They can also deal mortal wounds...the unit is pretty effing good in itc mission.

Warp spiders have also just been buffed huge. I don't know if they will start getting picked up now but with the ability to shunt turn 1 OR deepstrike in an reroll all hits - they are going to be good. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because people aren't playing with something it doesn't mean it's not good. Between hemlocks and crimson hunters and shinning spears (3 of the best units in the entire game) it is really hard to get into an eldar list.

Str3 is real problem, my swooping haws really do any damage vs keqs and bounce vs megs.
Squad 20 shoots killed 2-3 boys, without doom they are worthless, one more finesse unit aeldar you take just to fill your list. They bounce hard on every T4 unit and the lack of AP is not helping.
They are good at going back into sky and steal some late game points(linebreaker), but they really lack killing power to compensate for that 13 pts price tag.
5++ on them is a waste, because they just save on 4+, bolters just shred them even in cover. There is no reason for them to be more than 11 pts.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
War Walkers can also deep strike for free in the form of outflank. A 60 point War Walker has battle focus, can challenge light armour and chaff. Its very durable with T6, 4+/5++ so it's excellent at being ignored or soaking up fire that would otherwise be directed elsewhere. 180 points for 18 wounds pumping 18 shots. If it gets tarpitted, who cares because the unit charging it probably costed more.

I`m also thinking about walkers, tough, cheap vehicle with invul is probably the best think CWE could bring in this SM madness.
I`m thinking also about Wraithlords with aeldar launchers.

The WL suffers from degradation issue. And I think hes is an expensive platform for EML compared to a walker. Plus side is you can counter charge comfortably and hes happy being in melee for the most part. But then you loose out on that expensive EML shooting..really he wants to be running forward distraction carnifex style to draw all that fire for his T8 but relative low costs and try and dice up some vehicles.

With the new book, some Eldar units do seem to have a new lease of life. A 10 man scorp unit with claw is only 118pts, That's pretty cheap for mortal wounds on a 5+, in addition to the actual attacks and what they do to units in cover.

Then you have MSU Avengers in Serpents with Shredding Fire, Hail of Doom, and Mobile Fighters (or Expert Crafters and take an Autarch).

There is some good stuff overall, it just has to be geared right using multiple craftworlds to achieve a goal.

The rules encouraged me to finish my Swooping Hawk squad. I had 5 completed and am now finishing the other five (I use the models made by Ghost Miniatures). The MW on 5+ has merit, although I admit I am hoping for a slight points adjustment in the upcoming CA.

To me, the book is clearly not on the same level as the current Marine releases, but I am having fun and challenging games against non Marine armies (still working through the current Marine challenge).

 Sarigar wrote:
T
To me, the book is clearly not on the same level as the current Marine releases, but I am having fun and challenging games against non Marine armies (still working through the current Marine challenge).

True.
Some of the new supplement codices are much stronger.
In the Phoenix rising book you have to choose the Exarch abilities wisely to get some milage out of your Aspects.

it is a bad book rules wise(the only thing I care about). The only reason you'd have it is for the minuscule increase in power of one of Eldars' already strongest unit. They should have reworked most of the traits and released new datasheets for aspect warriors alongside a plastic range. Not just Banshees and even then, without making them any more worthwhile having in a list.

Good book, for every bad stuff there is some stuff which nicely adds up to things we were lacking before.

Fanfiction level lore though.

kingheff wrote:
I've used a min squad of scorpions for objective grabbing, 55 points is not much for a 2+ save in cover with a minus one to hit from the exarch. I wouldn't use them for much else but they're pretty good for this purpose.

Scorpions definitely have a place, more so now than ever before. Skip the -1 to hit nonsense. The unit does a mortal wound on infantry with a 5+ (per model). Most importantly this is done at the "beginning of the Fight Phase" in both turns...and that pre-empts even units that fight first, protecting them against charges, and going second during your opponents turn. They have 3+ armour allowing them to soak a decent amount of fire.

Getting there is of course still the issue, but we have Wave Serpents. Oddly their deep striking ability is probably best ignored. They're much more reliable damage output when deployed with a higher chance of charging. I ran two squads of 10 a few games and they reliably did 3-4 mortal wounds per fight phase. Yes their pistol and their chainswords are relatively pointless, but their armour and their mortal wound output was decent. Not tournament-winning, but it was a massive boon to their lethality. I was facing Primaris too, so it was nice to skip the toughness/armour, etc.

Add in the scorpions claw for additional kills and the unit now really delivers. They're cheaper than Banshees and actually do things. I'd actually argue that the bump to Scorpions is why I think Banshees got worse in this book. Do I care about your power sword when I do mortal wounds on a 5+ each phase? Nope. The only thing Banshees have is speed and ignoring Overwatch, but they're more expensive and have less damage output (and worse armour).

In addition, the Scorpions have a weirdly worded rule where they gain +1 to enemy units in cover...both shooting and close combat as far as I can tell. So if they charge an opposing unit in cover they're shooting/hitting on 2+ which is a bit silly. Banshees have no such bonus.

Well, I plan to use the Ynnari HQs in Aeldari armies other than Ynnari
such as Harlies with a battalion (troupes in starweavers, outrider detachment (lots of skyweavers) and Yncarne.

 Imateria wrote:
Problem with Hawks is that they are over specialised. Really good at doing damage to chaff units and lightly armoured T4 units like Boyz but not much good against anything else, at that point you're better off going with Shuriken weapons because they're good at both.

Imo hawks are an example of the terrible design of aspect warriors. It's a unit that's locked into fighting one extremely specific profile, so bringing them to tournaments is too much like flipping a coin

It's worth noting that the best aspects are still specialists at heart (spears as short-ranged cavalry, reapers as weapon squad), but they're not limited to hunting only one specific unit type

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I plan to use the Ynnari HQs in Aeldari armies other than Ynnari
such as Harlies with a battalion (troupes in starweavers, outrider detachment (lots of skyweavers) and Yncarne.

Doesn't this stop the detachment be battle forged?
I got my copy of the book at home but I cant remember what the ynari rules are. Always been pure CWE.

Of all the take aways from this thread, i'm just suprised I haven't seen a single post from baconcatbug that I can laugh at

Dumb Smart Guy wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Problem with Hawks is that they are over specialised. Really good at doing damage to chaff units and lightly armoured T4 units like Boyz but not much good against anything else, at that point you're better off going with Shuriken weapons because they're good at both.

Imo hawks are an example of the terrible design of aspect warriors. It's a unit that's locked into fighting one extremely specific profile, so bringing them to tournaments is too much like flipping a coin

It's worth noting that the best aspects are still specialists at heart (spears as short-ranged cavalry, reapers as weapon squad), but they're not limited to hunting only one specific unit type

Hawks are an excellent example of an Aspect Unit. Highly specialised unit very good at doing one thing. I don't get the complain. Its the eldar way. Highly specialised tools for the right job. Even though some aspects fail at that due to reasons. E.g Banshees not being killy in melee, scorpions not actually able to infiltrate etc. I don't want units all become generically good at everything..

The only thing that bugs me is that you can only drop x amount of grenades per enemy model... So if 5 hawks fly over a single model entity, you only roll one dice. So the other 4 guys just don't bother throwing their grenades? Having them drop all the grenades on whatever unit they choose all the tie would probably be a bit OP and make them good at killing single entities with MW though. I think they are an awesome unit (not awesome for marine meta, but then again what is?). If they weren't crappy finecast Id build me a squad of 10 for sure.