Phoenix rising is a crap book.

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**Not Online!!!**

This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

But Nope

**BrianDavion**

Not Online!!! wrote:
This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

But Nope

doing that would nesscitate GW offically launching forge world stuff as offical codices... not going to happen

**Amishprn86**

BrianDavion wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

But Nope

doing that would nesscitate GW offically launching forge world stuff as offical codices... not going to happen

They've done this many times, a few of the tyranids models (Flyrant, Trygon) were FW only at one point, same with some of the marines (they did release a full box set of Old marines), Admech, etc..

Its only as of late that FW is crap and GW is ignoring them.

**Burnage**

Amishprn86 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

But Nope

doing that would nesscitate GW offically launching forge world stuff as offical codices... not going to happen

They've done this many times, a few of the tyranids models (Flyrant, Trygon) were FW only at one point, same with some of the marines (they did release a full box set of Old marines), Admech, etc..

Its only as of late that FW is crap and GW is ignoring them.

Given how often they're getting mentioned in the fluff, I can totally believe that Corsairs or Exodites will be getting a release from GW proper at some point. Probably a small scale one, but who knows?

**vipoid**

Amishprn86 wrote:

No DE player (EDIT: that i talked to, and its a lot) cared more about Incubi and Drazhar over better HQ options... and GW knows this, but what did we get? ffs

The sheer number of missed opportunities in this supplement just beggers belief.

- The upcoming Chaos/DA supplement has relics and warlord traits, so clearly they're happy to include those . . . just not for the Eldar races.

- Eldar were given tables of new powers for each of their 8 or so Exarch squad-leaders, yet creating just 3 similar tables for the DE HQs was just unthinkable.

Actually, as an aside, if Drazhar is being officially acknowledged as a Phoenix Lord, then shouldn't Incubi have gotten one of those tables for the Klaivex?

- In the next supplement, there are stratagems to improve each of the Marine HQs, even though they already have 70 billion of the buggers. Meanwhile, DE and harlequins (with 3 and 2 generic HQs, respectively) get zilch.

These are all things that would require minimal effort and no new models, yet even these are apparently too much for GW to bother with.

Not Online!!! wrote:
This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if GW has forgotten that Corsairs and R&H actually exist as factions.

**Darsath**

These supplements have certainly been all over the place. The first book was certainly lacklustre, and this book seems decent for Black Templars and maybe Chaos Space Marines. I think it's still going to annoy Black Templars players if it contains less content for their Chapter than the other Chapters got (especially since Black Templars are the typical forgotten Chapter).

**Mr Morden**

Darsath wrote:
These supplements have certainly been all over the place. The first book was certainly lacklustre, and this book seems decent for Black Templars and maybe Chaos Space Marines. I think it's still going to annoy Black Templars players if it contains less content for their Chapter than the other Chapters got (especially since Black Templars are the typical forgotten Chapter).

Well they still have more models and special units than a number of First Founding Chapters? Speaking as someone with a BT army.

BrianDavion wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

But Nope

doing that would nesscitate GW offically launching forge world stuff as offical codices... not going to happen

Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

These are all things that would require minimal effort and no new models, yet even these are apparently too much for GW to bother with.

Too busy with the Marine rules supplement that is PA no 2 and likely to be the same with the Blood Angels one.

**Imateria**

Mr Morden wrote:

doing that would nesscitate GW offically launching forge world stuff as offical codices... not going to happen

Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

**BrianDavion**

Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

Not sure what drugs you're on but there aren't any forge world models in the custodes codex.

**Amishprn86**

BrianDavion wrote:
Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

Not sure what drugs you're on but there aren't any forge world models in the custodes codex.

There is a beta set of rules for it

**Apple fox**

I feel a little like this is just the end result of a studio that does not care about the game as a whole, and would rather work on there faverate parts of it.

Its kinda sad the situation some of these factions are in when just rules updates could be enough to really give them some interesting updates.
If minis are really just not going to happen, at least good rules can keep up interest and people getting into them. But it really does feel like GW wants to turn 40k into 30k, Even why they seem to be trying to kill off 30k at this point.

**Slayer-Fan123**

1. Get rid of super doctrines
2. Let your army start in a Chosen Doctrine

Bam, tons of issues fixed

**Sunny Side Up**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Get rid of super doctrines
2. Let your army start in a Chosen Doctrine

Bam, tons of issues fixed

I'd do it 6th Edition style.

Each turn after the 1st, a Marine army can choose from Devastator, Assault or Tactical Doctrine. Each Doctrine last until the end of the turn (or round?). Each Doctrine can only be chosen once a game. Super-doctrines stay, but you only get it the one turn you're in your favourite doctrine.

**BrianDavion**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Get rid of super doctrines
2. Let your army start in a Chosen Doctrine

Bam, tons of issues fixed

I'd do it 6th Edition style.

Each turn after the 1st, a Marine army can choose from Devastator, Assault or Tactical Doctrine. Each Doctrine last until the end of the turn (or round?). Each Doctrine can only be chosen once a game. Super-doctrines stay, but you only get it the one turn you're in your favourite doctrine.

as someone who had to deal with his army have that as his chapter tactic, yeaaah hard pass. it was crap then. it'd be crap now

**Not Online!!!**

BrianDavion wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
This campaign could've also been better used to hand some love to certain indexes (cough vipoid Corsairs, cough mutants and rabble /r&h cough Krieg fodder cough)

But Nope

doing that would nesscitate GW offically launching forge world stuff as offical codices... not going to happen

Still a better use then more marines and yet ANOTHER failed attempt at fixing the core issue with the CSM dex. That would be 11 btw.
(this is with the assumption that the french rumour guy is right.)

**Tyranid Horde**

Xenomancers wrote:
Turnip Jedi wrote:
Karol wrote:
Maybe Is it my english, although am not very fluent in polish either. I said, I understand that people not like having bad rules, I just don't understand how they could think that at some time they would get them. Am deeply suprised by it, because here everyone knows that good times are just a short break between long times of bad.

Am suprised that somehow eldar players were expecting that GW would be making good eldar rules. It is strange to me.

My problem with GK are that they are bad when I play them, if the uncoming CA made them awesome for a year, and then again they would be bad. I would be okey with them being bad again. The problem is that sometimes factions wait decades to get a good book. I don't even know what I am going to be doing in 2 years, 10 years is more then 2/3 of my life.

part of the problem with PA is it didn't really help the CWE or DE units that needed a bit of buff love, mostly the ones that have been copy/pastes for the last few editions, and even the rules that do help them are better on the already good units

Every aspect got better with maybe the execption of banshees...banshees didn't really get better.
3d6 pick the highest advance is great for fire dragons.
5++ save is great for swooping hawks
Dires got 2 good abilities - exploding 6's and +1tohit and wound after losing a model
Shinning spears got the absurd 3++ exarch and the also really good 6" pile in
Warp spiders can now come in RR all hits from DS or get a free move shunt on any turn
Crimsons got 2+ to hit ability
Scoprs can take -1 to hit in cover OR 5+ to deal mortals
Reapers got a free EML shot per squad.

You could realistically take any of these units but banshees and put them to great use if you so desired in in competitive. Not to mention ignore cover and always counts in cover for some really easy mode games. +4 inch shuriken range is also REALLY good. Plus the new warlock powers? Some of those are pretty good too.

DE did get pretty screwed but it's not like they really needed better rules. Realistically the Drazar buff makes taking 2 kabal batalions much more palpable. Plus now that you can take ynnari HQ's in detachments so you don't have to take 3 redundant archons. They did get some okay buffs to covens (I really don't care about covens). Scourges and mardrakes and incubi not getting their kabal traits is PRETTY effing weak though...they should really fix that...it is so annoying not getting my flayed skull trait on scourges.

Ynnari I feel got the most screwed. They are just so bad - no reason to ever play them.

You posted the same thing related to how good aspect warriors and I think you're misunderstanding that the units at their core aren't good enough to see competitive play. The Exarch traits only really buffed Shining Spears (still expensive), CHEs and Dark Reapers. The rest of the aspects weren't used before and they won't be used now except for screening, where someone used Swooping Hawks for their screening ability causing -2 to charge.

Realistically, no you can't take any of these units in competitive play because there are better units in the codex and they're outclassed by opposing armies.

**An Actual Englishman**

Apple fox wrote:
I feel a little like this is just the end result of a studio that does not care about the game as a whole, and would rather work on there faverate parts of it.

Its kinda sad the situation some of these factions are in when just rules updates could be enough to really give them some interesting updates.
If minis are really just not going to happen, at least good rules can keep up interest and people getting into them. But it really does feel like GW wants to turn 40k into 30k, Even why they seem to be trying to kill off 30k at this point.

I completely agree with this sentiment. Apple peel has it here.

**Shinzra**

To the op

When you mentioned there’s no stacking, what are you rearing to?

Sorry new to the book myself

Can you not take 2 obsessions and they work together ?

**Imateria**

Shinzra wrote:
To the op

When you mentioned there’s no stacking, what are you rearing to?

Sorry new to the book myself

Can you not take 2 obsessions and they work together ?

He's referring to Drazhars ability of +1 to wound not stacking with Lethal Precision's 6 to wound has +2 to damage. This is not really a surprise though, we've seen recently that GW is moving away from the old design principle of abilities going off on a specific dice roll being affected by modifiers to now only going off on a natural dice roll that can't be effected by modifiers at all.

As for the custom Obsessions, it specifically says to pick two of the options available to form your new Obsession unless stated otherwise.

**Mr Morden**

BrianDavion wrote:
Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

Not sure what drugs you're on but there aren't any forge world models in the custodes codex.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forgeworld_Custodes_Datasheets.pdf

Looks like its been shelved so they focuss exculsively on MARINES for 40k - just like Gw....awesome.

This and the same for Sisters of Silence might have been a nice thing for Chapter Approved - bet its filled with more Marines stuff

**DominayTrix**

Apple fox wrote:
I feel a little like this is just the end result of a studio that does not care about the game as a whole, and would rather work on there faverate parts of it.

Its kinda sad the situation some of these factions are in when just rules updates could be enough to really give them some interesting updates.
If minis are really just not going to happen, at least good rules can keep up interest and people getting into them. But it really does feel like GW wants to turn 40k into 30k, Even why they seem to be trying to kill off 30k at this point.

Kinda yeah. Space marines are the easy mode faction so it makes sense that they need extra special rules to keep them interesting and different from each other. Stealing other factions special abilities makes them a good sampler platter faction too.

**BrianDavion**

Mr Morden wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Whats the status of the Custoders Codex that has both GW and FW models?

Not sure what drugs you're on but there aren't any forge world models in the custodes codex.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forgeworld_Custodes_Datasheets.pdf

Looks like its been shelved so they focuss exculsively on MARINES for 40k - just like Gw....awesome.

This and the same for Sisters of Silence might have been a nice thing for Chapter Approved - bet its filled with more Marines stuff

... I'm sorry but do you really think a handful of 40k rules for an existing faction is the same as a army with no codex whatsoever?

**Smirrors**

Apple fox wrote:
I feel a little like this is just the end result of a studio that does not care about the game as a whole, and would rather work on there faverate parts of it.

Lol where is this BS coming from. They have only released 2.0 marine stuff since August 2019. The last space marine code was in July 2017. That is a 2 year cycle which sounds about right. Sure in between they released some primaris stuff but that is also more to do with their IP reshuffle and most of it was non-competitive until 2.0 came out.

GW have made no indication that they are igoring all other factions. In fact they are working to re-release the whole Sisters faction. It seems your comment is pretty nonsense.

**Argive**

Smirrors wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
I feel a little like this is just the end result of a studio that does not care about the game as a whole, and would rather work on there faverate parts of it.

Lol where is this BS coming from. They have only released 2.0 marine stuff since August 2019. The last space marine code was in July 2017. That is a 2 year cycle which sounds about right. Sure in between they released some primaris stuff but that is also more to do with their IP reshuffle and most of it was non-competitive until 2.0 came out.

GW have made no indication that they are igoring all other factions. In fact they are working to re-release the whole Sisters faction. It seems your comment is pretty nonsense.

I don't know man. Ever since I got back into the hobby around a year ago, It has been all marines, all of the time. Relentlessly. Model after model, article after article...
Then came the books, with more models and just knocked the power creep out the park. Sure its part hyperbole part envy but a lot of players might justifiably feel they are now playing a generic NPC faction #1. I'm fortunate to have decent rules despite having old ass failcast model range so I can live with it to a degree as I'm not bored with list building.

**Apple fox**

Smirrors wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
I feel a little like this is just the end result of a studio that does not care about the game as a whole, and would rather work on there faverate parts of it.

Lol where is this BS coming from. They have only released 2.0 marine stuff since August 2019. The last space marine code was in July 2017. That is a 2 year cycle which sounds about right. Sure in between they released some primaris stuff but that is also more to do with their IP reshuffle and most of it was non-competitive until 2.0 came out.

GW have made no indication that they are igoring all other factions. In fact they are working to re-release the whole Sisters faction. It seems your comment is pretty nonsense.

Considering this is about a crap book for a faction that has been left in just the state i feel is the issue, Which i play. I have been waiting 20 years for a single model to get a update, and still not likely to get it. Yea, I think its fairly reasonable to think such a thing.

2 years, would not be long if i even expected them to release anything i wanted. But that is a long time when trying to get interest in a game, Marines get massive amounts of support. and other factions do not even get the same effort to there books.

**Eldarain**

The lack of care in the rules is kind of shocking. You'd think the bean counters would have long ago realized having great swathes of minis and some whole factions being terrible in the game is not good business.

Your store employees reporting back that players actively warn customers against investing in them should have corrected this long ago.

**Slipspace**

Eldarain wrote:
The lack of care in the rules is kind of shocking. You'd think the bean counters would have long ago realized having great swathes of minis and some whole factions being terrible in the game is not good business.

Your store employees reporting back that players actively warn customers against investing in them should have corrected this long ago.

Agreed about the rules quality. Not sure I agree about the employee feedback though. IME, most GW stores are filled with either young kids just getting into the hobby or GW fanboys who likely don't play any games outside of GW ones and aren't really aware of the wider hobby. Most of the more jaded gamers don't go to GW stores at all, except maybe to quickly go in and out to pick up some paint, for example so there's not much warning against buying certain armies or models from your average GW customer. I think this may be a bit of a problem in terms of gathering feedback because GW stores likely have quite skewed feedback about the quality of the rules in particular. Obviously I'm not saying every GW store and every customer is like this but there's a definite difference that I've noticed in the attitudes of gamers in an FLGS compared to a GW store.

**Karol**

What is wrong about playing games at stores, plus I have seen a ton of GW games playing people that hate GW itself a lot.

**Slipspace**

Karol wrote:
What is wrong about playing games at stores, plus I have seen a ton of GW games playing people that hate GW itself a lot.

I'm talking specifically about GW stores, not FLGS. Not sure if they actually have any GW stores in Poland but in the UK there's one in every city and in general the customers of them tend not to be fully representative of the wider gaming community.

**Karol**

there is one, and everyone hates GW in it, because they only let people play on 1 out of 3 tables, and only demo games.

But even if we talk about other places. I really doubt that any GW going player, would be happy the last eldar or csm book. Specially if they main those armies. It is one thing to do stuff like trolling online, it is a way different thing to do it in real life, when you have to go back to the store next week.