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If the original MK7 (and previous mks of power armor) had an issue with bolter shells bouncing around up into the helmet, then how come it's not a huge issue with Terminator armor? Remember that giant round-ish area behind the helmet? It was actually mentioned that the mk8 faceplate is designed to stop shells from becoming trapped. Any explanation? You could literally just stick a hand grenade in there!

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

38,000 years and they haven't figured out how to make a gun that ejects the shells away from the firer?

In all seriousness though, odds are they designed the armor, then figured they should explain the change made, so they threw that in so it'd make sense.

lycio wrote:
38,000 years and they haven't figured out how to make a gun that ejects the shells away from the firer?

I always find myself assuming that somewhere down the line there must have been a point in human history where someone just said "eh, good enough". And then all the schools, universities and the like were shut down never to be used again.

It may be called a shell trap, but it's got nothing to do with empty bolter shells. it's referring to the possibility of incoming fire bouncing off the top of the chest and going up into the underside of the helmet. This problem often cropped up in tank design - for a classic example look at the two version of gun mantlet used on the German Panther tank. The early version was curved top and bottom and it was discovered that an incoming round could strike the bottom of the mantlet and be directed down through the relatively thin roof into the driver's compartment. So it was redesigned with a flat 'chin' on the bottom.

Perhaps better known as a "Shot Trap"?

 DanielBeaver wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

Partially this.

Adamantium is actually an ALLOY of handwavium and unobtanium.

 chromedog wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

Partially this.

Adamantium is actually an ALLOY of handwavium and unobtanium.

Unobtanium is the worst thing about Avatar. I mean, it's crap in general (pretty, sure, but crap) but that was the point where they completely lost me...

But yeah. Terminators have plot armour at least as thick as their actual armour. They're essentially terminator-centurions with their plot armour...

 ImAGeek wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

Partially this.

Adamantium is actually an ALLOY of handwavium and unobtanium.

Unobtanium is the worst thing about Avatar. I mean, it's crap in general (pretty, sure, but crap) but that was the point where they completely lost me...

Yeah, the movie The Core did that too. Terms like Unobtanium are meant to facilitate these sort of speculative discussions (like we're having right now). When they leak into final scripts... well, that's just bad writing.

The Core's use of Unobtainium was a tongue-in-cheek nod to phlebotinium, which had previously been in widespread use in a serious fashion. It was also a nickname for a compound with a name comprised of 'seventeen syllables', rather than the 'naturally-occurring element' from Avatar.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

Partially this.

Adamantium is actually an ALLOY of handwavium and unobtanium.

Unobtanium is the worst thing about Avatar. I mean, it's crap in general (pretty, sure, but crap) but that was the point where they completely lost me...

But yeah. Terminators have plot armour at least as thick as their actual armour. They're essentially terminator-centurions with their plot armour...

You know the guy who refers to the mineral as "unobtainium" in Avatar was using the term as slang, right? In the same way we use the term on these boards. The mineral was not actually called "unobtainium" in-universe, the guy speaking was expressing his frustration at the difficulties they had been having in acquiring the material.

That doesn't make the film any better though

 ImAGeek wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

Partially this.

Adamantium is actually an ALLOY of handwavium and unobtanium.

Unobtanium is the worst thing about Avatar. I mean, it's crap in general (pretty, sure, but crap) but that was the point where they completely lost me...

Unobtanium is an engineers in-joke. It's also a trademark of Oakley for the rubber nosepieces on their sunglasses that gain more traction, the sweatier your nose gets.

In that movie, the really-big-deal-thing about it is that it's a "room temperature superconductor" (IE, shirtloads better than the supercooled ones we've managed to make) in its natural form - it is what makes their starship drives work and their long range comms. This is why the magical sparkly rock floats in a magnetic field.

Even discounting that, Avatar is much more believable than 40k. At least it's internally consistent.

It's still crap. It looks pretty but apart from that I didn't like it. But I didn't realise that Unobtainium was a term used like that, I thought that was literally what they called it haha.

 Psienesis wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
Any explanation?

Terminator armor is made of handwavium.

Partially this.

Adamantium is actually an ALLOY of handwavium and unobtanium.

Unobtanium is the worst thing about Avatar. I mean, it's crap in general (pretty, sure, but crap) but that was the point where they completely lost me...

But yeah. Terminators have plot armour at least as thick as their actual armour. They're essentially terminator-centurions with their plot armour...

You know the guy who refers to the mineral as "unobtainium" in Avatar was using the term as slang, right? In the same way we use the term on these boards. The mineral was not actually called "unobtainium" in-universe, the guy speaking was expressing his frustration at the difficulties they had been having in acquiring the material.

What, did the Ultimate Avatar Companion Guide™ try to explain it as that? Because it certainly wasn't stated in the movie, where the line is delivered straight-faced. It's completely jarring, and drags the viewer out of the movie by screaming "THIS IS NOT REAL." So if it was indeed a joke, it was among the worst executed jokes in the history of filmmaking, lol.

Yeah, I'm gonna go right out and agree: the movie totally made it seem like "unobtanium" was the actual name. I mean: the joke thing makes sense, and maybe the writer even intended it to be that way, but the delivery and set up made it seem like that was just the name for their element.

Which is silly, but as everyone else pointed out: PRETTY COLOURS!

I prefer to think that the extra neck protection of the mk8 is to protect against close combat attacks by nids and the like.

Now that it's mentioned (and thanks Sir Sertile for the laugh) the gap between helmet and cowl on a termie suit is probably a lot less 'in real life' than the models and artwork show. So internal fluff updated.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
What, did the Ultimate Avatar Companion Guide™ try to explain it as that? Because it certainly wasn't stated in the movie, where the line is delivered straight-faced. It's completely jarring, and drags the viewer out of the movie by screaming "THIS IS NOT REAL." So if it was indeed a joke, it was among the worst executed jokes in the history of filmmaking, lol.

I tend to think the super obvious political/social agenda in that movie had brought me to the "THIS IS NOT REAL" point long before they ever introduced the ridiculously named rock.

I walked away rooting for the Humans. I mean, how "super freakin badass" was that Commander guy? He'd have made a great character in the Grimdark universe.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:What, did the Ultimate Avatar Companion Guide™ try to explain it as that? Because it certainly wasn't stated in the movie, where the line is delivered straight-faced. It's completely jarring, and drags the viewer out of the movie by screaming "THIS IS NOT REAL." So if it was indeed a joke, it was among the worst executed jokes in the history of filmmaking, lol.

leerm02 wrote:Yeah, I'm gonna go right out and agree: the movie totally made it seem like "unobtanium" was the actual name. I mean: the joke thing makes sense, and maybe the writer even intended it to be that way, but the delivery and set up made it seem like that was just the name for their element.

Which is silly, but as everyone else pointed out: PRETTY COLOURS!

Okay I'm glad it wasn't just me then!

I knew about Unobtanium before hand (Core is a wonderful cheesy disaster movie), and I still took that line as straight.

The only reasoning I can think of is that the guy giving the introduction was an accountant and didn't know the engineers were joking about it being called Unobtanium.

I love how this was answered in post three, but as one person mentioned Unobtanium, the whole thread is now about Avatar haha

Computron wrote:
I prefer to think that the extra neck protection of the mk8 is to protect against close combat attacks by nids and the like. Now that it's mentioned the gap between helmet and cowl on a termie suit is probably a lot less 'in real life' than the models and artwork show.

There's one worse thing than any armor angle on the suits. All those crazy guys who go to war without a helmet on their armored, fully enclosed enviromental and ABC capable suit!

A bare head should be very good at catching shells, shrapnel and anything else that otherwise wouldn't have penetrated the armor. And it's also a hit location that can incapacitate even a marine instantly.

The Unobtanium thing was right at the beginning. I was still giving the movie a chance at that point.

We didn't find out it was a heavy-handed remix of Dances With Wolves, Ferngully, and a nature documentary with a generous helping of white guilt for at least another 30-45 minutes at that point, lol.

Everything else aside, I always think "Ya know, if they'd fixed his legs first and then contractually obligated him to run their Avatar as repayment, they'd never have had any problems." He'd have been able to walk around, go to the gym, hit on women that weren't ten foot tall Smurfcats, and would have never asked any questions.

The downfall for their whole plan hinged around allowing a Marine to get bored. As a former leader of Marines, I can tell you that's about the worst thing you can do.

A healthy dose of SM's dropping in in well, drop-pods would've done this movie a great deal of good.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The Unobtanium thing was right at the beginning. I was still giving the movie a chance at that point.

We didn't find out it was a heavy-handed remix of Dances With Wolves, Ferngully, and a nature documentary with a generous helping of white guilt for at least another 30-45 minutes at that point, lol.

Objectively speaking, Ferngully had the redemptive quality of Batty, who was hilarious.

 Jollydevil wrote:

lycio wrote:
38,000 years and they haven't figured out how to make a gun that ejects the shells away from the firer?

I always find myself assuming that somewhere down the line there must have been a point in human history where someone just said "eh, good enough". And then all the schools, universities and the like were shut down never to be used again.

That's EXACTLY what happened. The Mechanicum shoots people who try and make their own technological advances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The Unobtanium thing was right at the beginning. I was still giving the movie a chance at that point.

We didn't find out it was a heavy-handed remix of Dances With Wolves, Ferngully, and a nature documentary with a generous helping of white guilt for at least another 30-45 minutes at that point, lol.

Some people figured that out before the movie was released. Hell, Trey Parker and Matt Stone even made a South Park episode called "Dances with Smurfs" a month before Avatar hit the theaters.

 Bobthehero wrote:
A healthy dose of SM's dropping in in well, drop-pods would've done this movie a great deal of good.

Not enough. Pandora needs to have the Carcharodons dropped on it, specifically the entire Chapter.

Suffer not the xenos.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:

lycio wrote:
38,000 years and they haven't figured out how to make a gun that ejects the shells away from the firer?

I always find myself assuming that somewhere down the line there must have been a point in human history where someone just said "eh, good enough". And then all the schools, universities and the like were shut down never to be used again.

That's EXACTLY what happened. The Mechanicum shoots people who try and make their own technological advances.

So all those Space Marines who change things up with their Predator Annihilators and Land Raider variants that never existed before got killed for that?

Because if so, why is that the Space Wolves still exist? I mean, IIRC their the first guys to innovate with Predator Annihilators, and the Pred Annihilator was never part of the STC for the Predator, so obviously that's a technological advance that wasn't made by the AdMech.

Can someone please illustrate me where the Terminator Armour has an actual shell trap? I can't see any.

Only fear I'd have would be that the shell lodges between the armour and the helmet, leaving me unable to turn my head.

Hell, I even looked my Terminator models and didn't see any. Please advice?

Whiskey144 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:

lycio wrote:
38,000 years and they haven't figured out how to make a gun that ejects the shells away from the firer?

I always find myself assuming that somewhere down the line there must have been a point in human history where someone just said "eh, good enough". And then all the schools, universities and the like were shut down never to be used again.

That's EXACTLY what happened. The Mechanicum shoots people who try and make their own technological advances.

So all those Space Marines who change things up with their Predator Annihilators and Land Raider variants that never existed before got killed for that?

Because if so, why is that the Space Wolves still exist? I mean, IIRC their the first guys to innovate with Predator Annihilators, and the Pred Annihilator was never part of the STC for the Predator, so obviously that's a technological advance that wasn't made by the AdMech.

"The Annihilator variant of the Predator was originally conceived as a field-modification by the Space Wolves Chapter, but after an intense investigation that lasted for over 200 standard years, it was found by the Adeptus Mechanicus that the replacement of the Autocannon with Twin-linked Lascannons had been a feature found within the vehicle's original Standard Template Construct (STC) designs and thus it became on officially recognised part of the Imperium's arsenal."

I'll let you think on what it means that it took the Mechanicum 200 years to figure out if the field modification was acceptable.

Either way, it reinforces what I've said.