"Shell Traps"

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**thegreatchimp**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
By most people who I have talked with on the subject, and because, unlike novels, they are more factually and without the same level of main character bias. It only takes one or two plasma shots to kill marines, but marines can kill entire armies? I call BS on that. Now the marines I personally imagines are more toned down than others, I full admit that (it makes them more interesting to me), but their is a lot of stupid stuff in novels, and your marines seem to be much stronger than average (army biases on both sides I suppose).

There's a huge disparity between the power of marines in the background and on the table. However I go with what's in the novels as a basis for their capabilities, not visa versa. There's & lot of records of a single chapter or even just a few companies pacifying or defending an entire planet from hundreds of thousands or millions of enemies. The way I see it is they're toned down on the tabletop in the interests of making a practically enjoyable game (10 marines vs 400 orks being somewhat impractical!)

**Ashiraya**

The key part is that the tabletop game is hobby-focused.

The hobby would not work (well, not in GW's eyes anyway) if you had to have 50 Guardsmen per Astartes.

Nobody would want to play IG!

**Wyzilla**

Ashiraya wrote:
The key part is that the tabletop game is hobby-focused.

The hobby would not work (well, not in GW's eyes anyway) if you had to have 50 Guardsmen per Astartes.

Nobody would want to play IG!

And they would have barely any profit on Astartes either. You simply couldn't make a real TT game sell well if one faction just needs ten models and an IFV to comprise an army.

**Finlandiaperkele**

Wyzilla wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
The key part is that the tabletop game is hobby-focused.

The hobby would not work (well, not in GW's eyes anyway) if you had to have 50 Guardsmen per Astartes.

Nobody would want to play IG!

And they would have barely any profit on Astartes either. You simply couldn't make a real TT game sell well if one faction just needs ten models and an IFV to comprise an army.

And that said army wipes the floor with most armies...

Also the said 50 guardsmen would have all the support elements also... Even that wouldn't be very balanced...

**BrianDavion**

One thing to consider is the Meta is also differnt in the fluff from table top.

Whats the most common army in table top 40k? Space Marines. thus we tend to design around the assumption of 3+ armor being common. etc. but in the fluff thats' pretty rare. people likely take flamers instead of plasma guns etc. try building an army based around the assumption of fighting Infantry heavy Imperial guard. I bet it'd have trouble with Marines

**TheCustomLime**

Ashiraya wrote:
The key part is that the tabletop game is hobby-focused.

The hobby would not work (well, not in GW's eyes anyway) if you had to have 50 Guardsmen per Astartes.

Nobody would want to play IG!

I'll have you know that I play IG for the tanks!

**Bobthehero**

I wouldn't play the game period if there was one faction so op.

**Ashiraya**

Exactly, and GW wants your $$$.

That is why the game is the way it is.

**BrianDavion**

Bobthehero wrote:
I wouldn't play the game period if there was one faction so op.

there ARE in 40k some pretty extreme ends for troops. compare Grey Knight Terminators vs Imperial Guardsmen.

**Ashiraya**

Bobthehero wrote:
I wouldn't play the game period if there was one faction so op.

Spoiler:

**Bobthehero**

They're giant robots vehicles, that's fine.If you were telling me that one faction basic infantry can eat a few artillery shell before going down, I'd go full ''nope'' Grey Knight termies still get instant death by most arty shells.

**Ashiraya**

And they still get their 2+ armour save against most artillery shells, too.

And my point stands. If you can stand an army consisting of 4-5 giant stompy robots forming a force of their own, then clearly the problem is not that too few enemies are boring to fight.

I don't think 375 point models is right for Space Marines, though...

**Co'tor Shas**

I don't know, I find knights incredibly boring to play against. Most of my units are automatically rendered useless, and my units that I use to kill them (crisis suits mostly) and insta-killed by them most of the time.

**BrianDavion**

Ashiraya wrote:
And they still get their 2+ armour save against most artillery shells, too.

And my point stands. If you can stand an army consisting of 4-5 giant stompy robots forming a force of their own, then clearly the problem is not that too few enemies are boring to fight.

I don't think 375 point models is right for Space Marines, though...

I know someone who runs a unbound army of chapter masters as deathwatch, it's not quite 375 points a model mind you but it's intreasting none the less