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randomly came across the above image through trolling the interwebs and a thought occured to me.

So while we know that blah blah hard to corrupt, for the emperor and in general would be excommunicated etc... say that somehow a chapter like the soul drinkers turned rogue for the usual reasons but didn't want to go down the road of chaos but instead decided to seek refuge within the Tau empire...

I'm thinking that they can definitely be used on the other frontiers fighting off orks/nids and away from other imperials but do you guys think:

1) would the marines eventually start using like 4 pulse rifles strapped together or just use rail rifles in rapid fire mode?
2) would a marine be able to fly a crisis or riptide suit? and if so, how well would he be able to use it? (for that matter, how fast could a marine learn the Tau language enough to use their equipment?)
3) would he fit inside a devilfish transport?
4) having stealth suit marines?

5) could the Tau start to have genetically modified fire warriors?
6) increase their use of chainsaws?
7) trade the marines to the kroot?
8) just use up the marines as soon as possible so as to be rid of them or try to keep them around for more studies?

The Tau don't strike me as being daft. Having a bunch of heavy assault infantry around will certainly be a plus. They would probably do the same role as they are used for in the imperium but have the advantage of shield tech and harder hitting guns...who knows maybe the Tau would do some research into energy melee weapons for them.

And if the Tau can manage to reverse engineer a geneseed they can make their own space marines out of Gue'vesa and brainwash them, indoctrinate and train them as usual.

I think that they would use them to create Taumarines, or Gue'vesamarines.

I can't imagine the Space Marines would actually "fit" in most of the Tau equipment, so I'd scratch that idea, but I imagine they'd probably try and upgrade their equipment some and I'm sure tactically they'd utilize them as Assault troops to shore up their own weak points.

My biggest question is, "what would they do with the chapters Librarians?"

Can't remember exactly, but that image is fan-made, and the "Space Marine" in the picture is an automated/autonomous prototype power armour.

I don't think that ethereals will eagerly recruit SM. As sm will quickly figure out what's going on with ethereals and will pose a direct threat to their current rule. Besides, SM have a completely different mindset. They're currently a semi-independent force even within imperium. And i doubt they'd abandon IOM to just follow orders of some other despoty.

Now i think that rogue sm could potentially work side by side with Farsight enclave. As allies of convenience - not as one. I think SM would just maintain their independency.

I've brought this up before and I very much like the idea. I think a more loving chapter could join them and work together with xenos to benefit humanity better than the Imperium. The tau could more than likely support them and provide them with new technology and materials

Might want to spoiler that image.

I don't think it's that far from reality, actually.

Take a chapter who's main tenants is the defence of civilians, like a Raven Guard or Salamanders chapter. Then pick one of those chapters who's fairly depressed about the whole thing, like the Black Guard of the Raven Guard. A chapter like that could very much go "Okay, our Imperium are wasting human lives in ways so stupid and henious it is slowly tearing us apart... Wait, what do you say? There's humans in the Tau Empire? They are allowed to live a better life, support their state, rever the Emperor and basically are safe through science, a unifing ideal and a relatively high amount of tolerance? You know, that's at least better than what we have now. Screw you guys, I'm gonna go save what's saveable of the human race."

I agree that they'd be very independent, and maybe not accept Tau equipment and basically do what they want, but really, it's not hard for a chapter on the verge of the Imperium to see the bright sides of going on the other side. I mean, if a chapter is firmly based on the idea that they are protectors of humanity, they are basically still doing their job. Through a compromise, but still.

They'd eventually be whittled away into extinction. They have no means to replace their combat losses. The comparatively-comfortable lifestyles of Tau-ruled human enclaves don't offer much in the way of viable candidates for Space Marine initiates.

 Psienesis wrote:
They'd eventually be whittled away into extinction. They have no means to replace their combat losses. The comparatively-comfortable lifestyles of Tau-ruled human enclaves don't offer much in the way of viable candidates for Space Marine initiates.

They could still travel and recruit, and I'm sure the tau could figure out how to make gene seed

Travel to other Space Marine homeworlds?

Travel to other Imperial Planets where they've been declared Excommunicatus Traitorus and come under fire from the planetary defense systems as soon as they're in orbit?

I'm sure the tau could figure out how to make gene seed

Given that it's taken Fabius Bile 10,000 years, the assistance of both the Dark Mechanicus and the Ruinous Powers to have kinda-sorta a working prototype, I think you are vastly overestimating the Tau understanding of genetic science, specifically (from a Tau perspective) xeno-genetics.

 Psienesis wrote:
They'd eventually be whittled away into extinction. They have no means to replace their combat losses. The comparatively-comfortable lifestyles of Tau-ruled human enclaves don't offer much in the way of viable candidates for Space Marine initiates.

Or they could just recruit from which ever human population they needed to. Strife and Turmoil is not needed for the Chapter to recruit. They could actually use the medical knowledge they have to recruit genetically viable recruits to use and then train them as they grow, much like in the case of the Red Scorpions, where the Chapter raises the children, who are presented to them upon birth.

To further this having genetically viable pool to recruit from they could start their own breeding program, where viable subjects who do well with the pre-implantation training are bred to females of a similar stock. Male offspring would be folded into the Chapter, female offspring would be used for various support roles as well as helping ensure the legacy of the Chapter.

They would only have to travel and take recruits for enough time until the humans on tau world's started to breed for space marines. And maybe I am overestimating the tau

It's not the gene-stock that is of concern, it's the background. Space Marine Chapters recruit from places where the aspirants are forced to prove themselves, whether this is the Under-Hive of Necromunda, the frozen wastelands of Fenris, or the Circus Maximus of Ultramar.

Living in a comparatively safe, stable environment like a Tau Enclave does not lend itself well to having a sizable pool of initiates who have, prior to their selection by the Chapter, proven themselves to be strong of both body and will.

 Psienesis wrote:


Given that it's taken Fabius Bile 10,000 years, the assistance of both the Dark Mechanicus and the Ruinous Powers to have kinda-sorta a working prototype, I think you are vastly overestimating the Tau understanding of genetic science, specifically (from a Tau perspective) xeno-genetics.

Well, 10,000 for us real-worlders. He's been in the Eye of Terror, so he could have taken however long/short time that might not/might have taken. Just... The Warp.

But saying that there wouldn't be places to take from that are dangerous enough, it's not like the Empire haven't got Death Worlds, and human armies that are at least veterans of some war-acts.

 Psienesis wrote:
It's not the gene-stock that is of concern, it's the background. Space Marine Chapters recruit from places where the aspirants are forced to prove themselves, whether this is the Under-Hive of Necromunda, the frozen wastelands of Fenris, or the Circus Maximus of Ultramar.

Living in a comparatively safe, stable environment like a Tau Enclave does not lend itself well to having a sizable pool of initiates who have, prior to their selection by the Chapter, proven themselves to be strong of both body and will.

Except that the Red Scorpions canonically dont recruit them after they have proven themselves, they take them after child birth. The Chapter is literally all they have ever known.

But saying that there wouldn't be places to take from that are dangerous enough, it's not like the Empire haven't got Death Worlds, and human armies that are at least veterans of some war-acts.

And, in most circumstances, SM Chapters can recruit from said Death Worlds.

In these circumstances, though, these are renegade SM. The kind that, should an IN Battlegroup roll through the system, there's going to be a shoot-out above the planet (with the SM caught between the Navy and the planet's own gravity well). Highly risky; the sort of scenario that may end (less a matter of "if" than "when") with more losses to the Chapter than it gains. Remember that, once they've broken away from the Imperium, the Marines are cut-off from the supply lines of the Mechanicus, and any vehicles they lose are going to be near-unrecoverable. Lose a Strike Cruiser or a Battle Barge, and there's no replacing that. The Tau don't really have an equivalent.

Human veterans who are already in the Tau Empire are most-likely too old to begin Space Marine training. We haven't seen that being done since the GC/Heresy era.


ETA: And since "purity above all else" and "unquestioning devotion to the Emperor alone" are the hallmarks of the Red Scorpions, I think it safe to assume that the Red Scorpions are not going to be the Chapter joining up with heretical Xenos, so their recruitment practices (an exception that proves the rule) are not a factor here.

 Psienesis wrote:

But saying that there wouldn't be places to take from that are dangerous enough, it's not like the Empire haven't got Death Worlds, and human armies that are at least veterans of some war-acts.

And, in most circumstances, SM Chapters can recruit from said Death Worlds.

In these circumstances, though, these are renegade SM. The kind that, should an IN Battlegroup roll through the system, there's going to be a shoot-out above the planet (with the SM caught between the Navy and the planet's own gravity well). Highly risky; the sort of scenario that may end (less a matter of "if" than "when") with more losses to the Chapter than it gains. Remember that, once they've broken away from the Imperium, the Marines are cut-off from the supply lines of the Mechanicus, and any vehicles they lose are going to be near-unrecoverable. Lose a Strike Cruiser or a Battle Barge, and there's no replacing that. The Tau don't really have an equivalent.

Human veterans who are already in the Tau Empire are most-likely too old to begin Space Marine training. We haven't seen that being done since the GC/Heresy era.

They could easily just take a Cruiser from one of the Chapters they'd end up fighting.

Also to what you said earlier about the strife and everything. Recruitment in Ultramar is all vonultary, anyone from any walk of life can volunteer for the Trials.

Yes, voluntary. Unlikely to be passed by anyone who isn't physically capable of it. Anyone can enlist in the Marine Corps, if you're a 300 pound couch potato, you're probably not going to make it through Basic, even if you somehow pass the initial screening tests.

I think they'd have no problem with space craft, as the tau can supply them with space craft, not like it has to be imperial. And if it's so hard to get recruits for space marines then chaos space marines should effectively not exist anymore

 Psienesis wrote:
Yes, voluntary. Unlikely to be passed by anyone who isn't physically capable of it. Anyone can enlist in the Marine Corps, if you're a 300 pound couch potato, you're probably not going to make it through Basic, even if you somehow pass the initial screening tests.

That all depends on motivation.

But anyway that still brings us back to the fact that there is a Chapter that takes you as a newborn and raises you in the Chapter. When you are selected for them there is no strife, its just training. Any other Chapter could do the same thing.

They'd absolutely be able to recruit from various places, even if people were "soft." They don't start out as a marine, and marine selection methods are as much (or more) ritual than practical. That being said, they'd be operating so autonomously that I don't think they'd ever be folded into the Tau Empire, or allow themselves to be. They may be rogue and tend to help the Tau, but they wouldn't actually become part of the Tau.

They wouldn't be accepted.
Tau has no place for Astartes.

1) No. Bolter is way more useful for Marines than PR.
2) No. Suits are only for senior members of Fire Caste.
3) Propably. Not that they would use any.
4) No. Tau vs Marine physiology.
5) No. Tau philosophy prevents genetic modification.
6) No. Why would they?
7) What? No.
8) Propably just kill them on spot.

I feel that the Tau would accept Astartes, but they would have a lot less autonomy than in the IOM. They would basically be used as Ogryn-esque units, lifting resources and crates behind the battlelines or acting as an "immobile battlesuit" if you will. These conditions are taxing for a Space Marine to handle, and would probably rebel from the Tau as well. Not to mention that the Tau would need to create new armours and weapons to fit the Astartes, or find a way to recreate the (rather primitive) bolters and power armour and machine spirits for them. This would prove to be difficult for the Tau Earth Caste and Ethereals, as they are then technologically regressing, the very antithesis of their culture.
And the whole gene-seed point Psienesis put forward.

 Psienesis wrote:

But saying that there wouldn't be places to take from that are dangerous enough, it's not like the Empire haven't got Death Worlds, and human armies that are at least veterans of some war-acts.

And, in most circumstances, SM Chapters can recruit from said Death Worlds.

In these circumstances, though, these are renegade SM. The kind that, should an IN Battlegroup roll through the system, there's going to be a shoot-out above the planet (with the SM caught between the Navy and the planet's own gravity well). Highly risky; the sort of scenario that may end (less a matter of "if" than "when") with more losses to the Chapter than it gains. Remember that, once they've broken away from the Imperium, the Marines are cut-off from the supply lines of the Mechanicus, and any vehicles they lose are going to be near-unrecoverable. Lose a Strike Cruiser or a Battle Barge, and there's no replacing that. The Tau don't really have an equivalent.

Human veterans who are already in the Tau Empire are most-likely too old to begin Space Marine training. We haven't seen that being done since the GC/Heresy era.


ETA: And since "purity above all else" and "unquestioning devotion to the Emperor alone" are the hallmarks of the Red Scorpions, I think it safe to assume that the Red Scorpions are not going to be the Chapter joining up with heretical Xenos, so their recruitment practices (an exception that proves the rule) are not a factor here.

The Carcharodons don't have recruiting worlds, and they get by just fine...








... probably not the best way to impress the Tau, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:


1) No. Bolter is way more useful for Marines than PR.

... and we have a winner for the award "Dumbest comment made in thread."

The pulse rifle is, in every way, superior to the bolter. It hits harder at greater range and is easier to build and supply.

EmpNortonII wrote:

Finlandiaperkele wrote:
1) No. Bolter is way more useful for Marines than PR.

... and we have a winner for the award "Dumbest comment made in thread."

The pulse rifle is, in every way, superior to the bolter. It hits harder at greater range and is easier to build and supply.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:


1) No. Bolter is way more useful for Marines than PR.

... and we have a winner for the award "Dumbest comment made in thread."

The pulse rifle is, in every way, superior to the bolter. It hits harder at greater range and is easier to build and supply.

Though it would need to be re-sized and all... Or maybe the Pulse Carbine would make a better weapon, as Marines are shock-troppers in nature and kinda need something balanced and short.

I'd draw an Astartes Pulsegun, but Imma going to bed. Maybe later.

Found the picture source finally! Included with backstory:
http://ukitakumuki.deviantart.com/art/Hammerhead-Down-40K-315545763