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So, Valve has teamed up with Bethesda to allow the monetization of mods on the workshop. They couldnt have found a worse game to start with if they tried: Skyrim. They shouldve really started with a game that has no, or just a very small modding community to test the waters... as it is, here are the rules:
- price is chosen by the modder, and can be fixed or a variable donation (minimum 0,04$). (or free)
- Valve and Bethesda get 75%
- Theres a 24 hour return policy.
- If you have issues after those 24 hours have passed, youre supposed to "politely ask the mod author to fix the issue"
Now, first the pros of the situation: Modders can finally get money for what they may have put countless hours into; Valve and Bethesda make more money.
The potential pitfalls are pretty nasty though:
- Quality assurance is pretty much based completely on the modder. And if you run into an issue, theres pretty much no possibility of getting a definite fix, youre reliant on the goodwill of the modder. Some issues may only become apparent after youve been playing longer than the refund period allows. (an incompatibility between Equipment Overhaul and SkyRe comes to mind, where the player character got slower the longer you played)
- Someone may take someone elses mod and monetize it. Some people have apparently already started doing this. Less drastically, many mods rely on other mods to function, like SKSE, SkyUI, UFO, or most follower mods (which tend to use armour sets, bodymods, hairstyles, etc... some of which may have been imported from other games)
- Larger projects may also run into issues of how to share the money.
- There is apparently a threshhold of how much money you have to make before you actually receive it. Ive heard varying statements of between 100 and 400$.
- Modders, who do all the actual work, just get 25%
- New mods currently seem to be curated by a system similar to Greenlight... and we all know how great *that* works to stop people from releasing buggy messes with resources they dont have the rights to use...
Overall, this is pretty bad news... imo, anyway. Any thoughts?
Read a lot of the discussion surrounding this. I'm on the side thinking its a pretty bad idea. There's already been one confirmed case of someone uploading another creator's mod to the workshop. It was taken down after the creator found out it their content was stolen, but its a great example for how poorly implemented the whole thing is, even if the idea was good.
Fortunately, for Civ, the game I mod the most and play the most, the most prolific and respected modders have already said they'd keep all their mods free. The Skyrim SKSE guys have also stated their mod will remain free.
Hopefully enough backlash rises form this against Valve and they take it all back. I'm a fan of Steam, but this move if it continues will push me to other services.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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Blacksails wrote: Fortunately, for Civ, the game I mod the most and play the most, the most prolific and respected modders have already said they'd keep all their mods free..
Speaking of, I should check to see if BE's modding community has managed anything really cool. Hrm.
I'm in agreement that this is probably a bad idea.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Speaking of, I should check to see if BE's modding community has managed anything really cool. Hrm.
There are some solid mods I've got that make the game better, but nothing that even compares to the likes of Events and Decisions, Community Balance Patch, and the horde of excellent new civs from the likes of JFD, TPangolin, and Pouakai, not to mention a dozen other prolific and solid authors.
In BE, the 'Awesome' series does a good job of fixing gameplay, but I haven't found anything that compares to what Civ V has. Shame really.
I'm in agreement that this is probably a bad idea.
Yeah. Even though the general idea that modders should earn something from potentially hundreds of hours of work or more is admirable, the implementation, enforcement, and quality control open up dozens of issues.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
Any specific recommendations? I find myself enjoying BE more than V right now.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
I don't think it is a bad idea IN THEORY. However, this application of it I feel is a bad approach. We've seen how Steam has picked up and sold a lot of games which can safely be called 'not ready for sale'. This is an extension of that same problem.
Melissia wrote: Any specific recommendations? I find myself enjoying BE more than V right now.
For BE or Civ V?
I'll do both, because feth it.
For BE, the Awesome collection is a good place to start. There 7 mods in it so far, but the Awesome Collection is always being updated and added to. Lots of solid changes.
Visually, Distinctive Terrain and Colourful tech web are great for enhancing the UI. Not gameplay related, but I found the game to a little flat in its colour selection, or lack thereof entirely.
On the Sponsor front, just about anything from JFD will be balanced, fun, and of a high quality. Likewise, TPangolin's Colonialist Legacies (Both BE and Civ V) are solid for some added spice or variety.
I haven't explored any of the mods that alter quests or affinities yet, though that's my next step. I need to play more to get a better handle of the balance in the game on that front.
For Civ V, the first mod I'd recommend is Sukritact's Events and Decisions, which adds a great layer of further distinction between civs and has more options for gameplay and strategy. Once again, on the civ front, JFD and TPangolin make some of my favourite civs, and JFD's are generally compatible with every single popular mod ever conceived. The man is a wizard.
If you get tired of how Civ V plays (4 city tradition science victory being the easiest/simplest/generally strongest way of playing), the Community Balance Project changes gameplay quite a bit and boosts a number of weak civs and policy trees, opening up more play styles and improving on the AI.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
This isn't entirely new. Valve has been paying moders of team fortress for their models. I just think this entire thing will blow up on us. Mods have existed in kind of a legal gray area, Often not legal, but not worth suing because there is no money in it. Add money to it and well your testing that allowance.
The community is practically eating itself alive, modders are turning on each other, one of the most major mods that most people relied on is now going paid.
Basically, Valve did one of the things you would never expect, they practically killed the current modding community.
Actually a bigger modding community is a great place to try out something new like this. It's just what they're trying out is pretty dumb due to how long mods have been free. I doubt people will be even forced to pay for the mods anyway since they'd just be able to get them from somewhere else. The best way to have monetised their mods would be the modders simply having something set up so they could accept donations, cause when you make people pay for all the mods you're more likely helping the really crappy modders out and bringing the better ones down.
SilverMK2 wrote: Yeah, a donation system would be much better, and with a MUCH smaller cut for steam and the game manufacturer...
Honestly I think they should be taking maybe 10% at most each and that the prices for the mods should rarely jump to $10. This'd be like how they make money from the trading system with volume of sales over the sale price, also keeps the modder getting the majority of the profit since they made the mod.
nomotog wrote: Mods have existed in kind of a legal gray area, Often not legal, but not worth suing because there is no money in it. Add money to it and well your testing that allowance.
Skyrim modding has always been 100% legal. You cannot explicitly grant people permission to create and use mods and then turn around and pretend that they are violating your IP by creating and using mods. It would be like Games Workshop publishing painting guides and then suing you for painting your Space Marines like Blood Angels.
SilverMK2 wrote: Yeah, a donation system would be much better, and with a MUCH smaller cut for steam and the game manufacturer...
Yeah, this would have been great. As is, though, I feel the only decent choice is to refuse to publish or buy paid mods until Valve cleans up their act.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: ...one of the most major mods that most people relied on is now going paid.
Which mod is that? Wet and Cold, or another one?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/25 06:27:47
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
On the one hand this is an interesting idea. Modders dedicate a lot of time to develop their projects and they do it free of cost. To that end, I don't necessarily mind the idea of them being paid for their work, assuming the original game developer is on board with it. It's especially tactful of Bethesda, given that the modding community often spends many many hours fixing their games. This could lead to interesting and more diverse projects coming from modders.
On the other hand, this is just ripe for abuse. People loading other people's mods. Modders charging obscene amounts for non-original works. The inevitable butt hurt, caused by projects that start, are extremely buggy, and are never fixed because the modder lost interest. I also have a problem with charging people for what is analogous to fan fiction.
I think integrating the ability to donate to modders via the workshop would be a much better option than upfront payment.
Not sure, I know the 5.0+ are going to be paid only but that's it, nobody knows whether they are going to remove it from the nexus. Though considering a few of their thoughts on the matter it would be likely.
It's certainly caused some divisions to say the least.
Someone's views on why this is a bad thing from the Reddit as to why this is bad beyond just the money aspect of it.
Yup, same here. It's gonna be hell for modders if they create a new engine for Fallout 4. For those that aren't familiar, the modding scene goes through a learning/discovery phase when a new game/mod tool comes out. There is documentation, generally, but it's often hard to understand, and there are lots of tricks you can force the modding tools to do that results in cool stuff.
The Skyrim modding scene start was like a gold mine rush. People were reporting like every hour on the nexusmod forums about new tips and tricks of stuff you could do and it was awesome. Without this, a lot of stuff would not have been done.
Now if we look at the potential Fallout 4, what happens then? No one will want to share. If you're the first person/group to figure out a way to push the modding tool into modifying the behavioral AI, and other peoples are mining at it but can't figure it out, what would you do? Hoard that knowledge and create a unique mod that others can't recreate, obviously!
It will basically turn one of the most helpful and generous modding community into basically nothing. Nobody will want to help each other except core modders that have known each other for years. New modders will be shunned as "Quick money" or whatever, no help will be given to those, I can guarantee you that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/25 11:22:22
I had a quick check about and it seems SkyUi is still on the Skyrim Nexus. This really should have been a donation type system instead of an outright charge. Even at a ÂŁ1 per mod that I've downloaded in my life I'd be out hundreds of pounds, and that's saying that everyone of those was worth keeping.
I question how the refunds system will work. I've downloaded hundreds of mods, but have only a percentage of those installed. I predict Valve being swamped by refund requests for one. That and what's to stop a person from downloading a mod, ripping out the files then asking for a refund? IIRC steam workshop files aren't in a format different from the raw files are they?
I'm with TB on this. Some of the better mods sure they're worth a few bucks, but few of them are of the quality or scope of the actual DLCs, so I wouldn't say many should be charging anywhere near what those prices. If this were to work then a donation would be a lot more acceptable to me at least (which is something the Skyrim Nexus already has). Its a lot of gak stirring where it wasn't necessary in my opinion. Now we're going to have Steam fighting it out with the mod sites, as they make an obvious grab to try and take a monopoly of the area. I doubt they will achieve that, but this is going to create a split that was entirely unnecessary.
The guy who runs the Skyrim Nexus has put out a few posts on this:
Valve and Bethesda announced today that they've updated the Skyrim Workshop to enable mod authors to upload mods to the site which can then be placed behind a paywall, requiring users to pay a set amount (or an author-set minimum, with the option to pay more if you so wish) before they can download the mod in question. I'm not sure there's been an official announcement about the revenue split, but as there's no new information at this time, I think it's safe to assume it's 25% to the mod author, 75% to Valve/Bethesda, of which I believe 5% can go to "Service Providers" out of Valve and/or Bethesda's cut. Once again, seems that information is missing from any FAQs or documents at this time. The old axiom goes, however, "it's better to have 25% of something, than 100% of nothing".
If you're interested in reading up about this then you can head over to the Workshop page which has more details. This won't be a long news post about my opinions on the topic as my fingers are still a little warm from the 3,000 odd words I wrote last month on this exact topic which predicted all this. My feelings haven't changed. It's too early for that.
On top of that Bethesda have also announced a free Skyrim weekend. Anyone who doesn't already have Skyrim will be able to play it, for free, this weekend (unlike some mods, ho ho ho. Sorry, too soon?). In light of that, and what it could mean for our servers here, I've decided to cancel a long-weekend holiday I've had booked for the past 4 months with 30 other people, a reunion type thing, in Spain. I can't be sunning up by the pool fixing/tweaking servers on an 11 inch laptop via SSH with slightly dodgy Spanish hotel internet (no offence, Spain!) while trying to keep you all informed as to what's happening. It might not happen in light of the extensive investment, both in time and money, we've put in to the servers over the past few years, but what with our past history and the fact there's even potential for it, it just wouldn't be right. Thanks for the heads up on that one Valve/Bethesda! Not.
What I will say, however, is that many mod authors have mods on the Nexus and on the Skyrim Workshop, some of whom already have paid mods on the Workshop. I've taken a quick look at the comments on those paid file pages and some of the things being said are horrific. While I'm sure no one is shocked by that, this is the internet after all, simply looking at it reminds me of one of the main reasons we do what we do here. We moderate. We try to fence off a little piece of the internet where your actions have consequences, and with that in mind, if we see anyone attacking or abusing mod authors here because they have paid mods up on the Workshop you'll be gone. Instantly. With no warning.
The Nexus is for everyone from every background, colour, creed, and political, religious or sexual persuasion. We strive to make this a community where anyone and everyone can enjoy something here away from hate. And that includes mod authors who want to make money. So if you break that peace and attack mod authors here for what they've chosen to do, you'll be gone. By all means debate, but when your debating becomes abusive, it's no longer debating.
Before I get in to the minor updates we've made to the site in light of the major news yesterday I will quickly address the matter of our forums being slow and/or down.
Obviously this news has been a huge deal, and probably exploded far more than Valve and Bethesda realised it would (and not particularly positively, lets face it!). Some of the spotlight has been shined on the Nexus as a result of that. Some people have expressed concern we'll go the same way (they obviously don't read the site news) or that it'll affect us negatively some how. Everything you see here is completely free, and it's definitely staying that way. About 40 mods have been hidden in the Skyrim Nexus section since this announcement, most of which are people afraid their mods are going to be stolen and uploaded to Steam for profit. Our forums have also been struggling to keep up with the increase in traffic that's come from the spotlight being placed on us and so they've either been crawling along at a snails pace or they've been taken down by us while we try and tweak things as much as possible.
The forums are the only element of the site infrastructure that we didn't update in our big 16 month, $250,000 infrastructure update we did over this and last year. We wanted to keep the forums running on a separate system to the sites so that if one went down, the other would still (hopefully) be up, and vice-versa. Hence why the Nexus sites themselves are working fine and the forums aren't. We're working to rectify that so if the forums go down, that's us working on it. We wanted a bit of a rest from infrastructure upgrades after the soul crushing experience we had last year, but we'll look in to sorting out the forums now.
Now, on to the changes we've made today.
Donations
The donation system on the Nexus has been brought up and talked about a lot over the past few months in our private mod author forums (mod authors with 1,000 or more unique downloads gain access). Way before this announcement by Valve and Bethesda it was agreed that the donation system needed to be made more prominent because a lot of users still weren't aware the system even existed on the sites.
We are going to look in to loosening up our donation rules slightly. One of my main issues, to this day, with mod pages is how awful some file page descriptions are. Some mod descriptions are buried underneath change logs, latest news, FAQs, information about the author's dog in the vets and so on and so forth. Sometimes it can be a real struggle just to find the freaking description of what the mod actually does. I have not, and do not ever want a mod description tab to contain information about (or begging for) endorsements, votes or donations. However, something I will explore is adding a donation box below the main content area of a file page. So if you reach the bottom of the file description, there'll be a new box underneath that where an author can talk about donations with a donation link. A good use of that area might be to list and thank the people who've already donated and to explain what the donation money, if there is any, will go towards. That way, there's a specific place for authors to talk about donations that, most importantly for me, doesn't detract from the importance of talking about what the mod actually does. As I said, that's just something we're looking in to right now and, if feedback is positive on this idea, we could have something out next week. But until then our rules have not changed on specifically asking for donations in your file descriptions. It's still a big no-no.
On to updates we've actually made today: we were busy working on an update to the image uploading system to be far more efficient based on mod author feedback, but we've sidelined that in the mean-time to focus on these quick updates before the weekend hits.
We've made a quick, preliminary update to the sites that allows mod authors to show a donation information box before a user downloads their file. The box looks and acts the same way as the "required files" box before downloads. If you've used the site enough you'll have come across mods that require other mods in order to work. Some mod authors have turned on the functionality that will inform users who go to download their files of these required files. Now, as a mod author, you can turn on a donation box which uses the same system. When a user clicks to download one of your files an information box will come up explaining the donation system with a direct button link users can click to donate. If the user does not want to donate all they need to do is click the "Continue with my download button" and the download will begin as per before.
This adds another click to a user's downloading process but we think, in light of these major, sweeping changes we're seeing in our modding community, it's a very small price to pay to get the word out there a bit more about donations.
Many mod authors have expressed that they don't want to make a living from their modding hobby, but a free cup of coffee or pint of beer every now and again goes a long way to making them happy and content with the tens, hundreds and even thousands of hours they put into modding. And happy mod authors are often better mod authors in my book. Most of all, it doesn't hurt anyone. Unless one extra click hurts you (if so, you might want to see a doctor about that).
This new functionality is opt-in for all mod authors right now. In order to opt-in, you need to fill in your donation preferences on the site and turn on the options in all the files that you want to turn donations on for. If you'd previously turned on donations for all your files then all your files will continue to have donations on by default, but the donation box is not on by default. Which leads us to the next quick update.
Donations are no longer global across all your file pages. Originally, you either turned donations on for all your files or none of your files. This led to a few issues because many mod authors collaborate with other authors, which resulted in a donation button showing for one mod author but not another. Which is not ideal. So now you can cherry pick the exact files you want to show a donation button for and what files you don't. The option to turn on the pre-download donation box is another option on top of that which, once again, you can specify on a per-file basis.
We still have a glaring issue of how, or even if, we can split donations between mod teams. The problem is that I really, really, do not want to touch any donation money. I don't want to act as a middle-man between a user and a mod author when it comes to donations, I'd just rather a user donated to a mod author directly. The inherent problem with that is, because there's no way of knowing what file a donation was for, there's no way of being able to differentiate between a donation for a file that an author made on their own and a donation for a file an author made with a team. It's something we're going to have to think about, because the only way I can think of getting around that particular issue is having some sort of Steam Wallet style system in place on the Nexus that records all the donations sent for all files and mod authors. And I absolutely loathe that idea.
Permission changes regarding paid mods
The modding community, especially with Bethesda games, is built on mods that use assets from other mods. Many mods are stand-alone and use completely unique or vanilla assets, but many also use assets from other mods. On top of that, many modders release their mods as "modders resources", essentially saying to people "take whatever you want from my mod and use it in yours". The introduction of paid for mods changes that. Some mod authors have already taken their mods down because they're afraid their assets or even their entire mods will be stolen and added to the new Steam Workshop without their permission. Many more have said they are now unsure if they'll ever release another modder's resource again.
We obviously do not want that to happen, and the fact it has happened already leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The taste of one side of what money is bringing to modding. We've even had our first mod taken down from the paywall section of Skyrim Workshop related to this issue, less than 24 hours in. And these were the mods vetted by Valve and Bethesda themselves! Gooooood start. Big sarcastic thumbs up.
While I'm talking about this fear of mods or assets being stolen, I feel I need to point out a massive, glaring issue with this new Workshop implementation, because right now people are focusing on "Oh my god, you mean I might need to pay for some mods?" while I think an even more horrific thing is "Oh my god, you mean I will have to pay to check and make sure if someone has stolen my work!?". Let me explain. The new implementation is set up so that there's a 7-day grace period after an author uploads a file with a pricetag. During these 7 days users can view the file page, look at the pictures and read the description, but they cannot download the file. The idea of this grace period is to get the community to police new uploads before they're added to make sure that nothing bad is added to the paid section of the site. Seems like a good idea. Except if a mod author is using stolen assets from other people's mods.
Unless the thief is pants on head stupid they're not going to talk about stealing assets from other mods or put up pictures that would suggest assets have been stolen. The only way the authors of the assets that have been stolen will know it's happened is if someone buys the mod and then tells the author. At which point the author is either going to have to engage in the new world of mod piracy (which began yesterday in earnest) or they're going to have to buy the mod for themselves. So you want to say, "But Dark0ne, the author can buy the mod, investigate, then ask for a refund, as there's a refund system!". Yes, there's a refund system. A refund system that refunds you in Steam Wallet money that you can never take out of Steam. So once you've bought that mod, that money will always be Valve's from that point on. Refund or not. That, I'm sorry to say, is flying rodent gak. Freaking. Crazy. Add to that the fact that the mod may have made substantial sums of money before it's spotted, some of which may have already been paid to the thief, or alternatively has been removed from the thief's account before they could get the payout and, guess where the money goes then? That's right. Valve's coffers.
So if you're wondering why some mod authors have pulled their mods already, if you think it's silly or a daft knee-jerk reaction, you might want to rethink your position. I'm most definitely not trying to encourage more mod authors to do that, but I won't begrudge them doing it, and I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend like it isn't happening just so some mod authors don't find out the ugly truth and stick around. I think everyone should know everything there is to know about this. What I'd rather people did was put some pressure on Valve to find a way around this awful idea of profiting off stolen mods. Even if it's a way of refunding money properly instead of it being Steam Wallet money, that'd be a good start. My other idea would be for Valve to offer to donate any money that came from proven stolen mods that have been taken down to charity. That would be an awesome gesture.
In light of this issue, and because I know a lot of mod authors have either come out on one side or the other on the issue, we've added a new permissions check box to file page settings (found under "Edit Attributes", towards the bottom). The setting reads "Users can not use my assets in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms". You can either tick it or untick it, and that information will be displayed under the Permissions and Credits link as per usual.
It's important that's there to ensure that users can still provide a blanket "Yes, you can use my work in your mods" statement while also clarifying "except if you're going to charge for it", or "even if you charge for it", depending on where you stand. This box is ticked by default. You will need to untick it if you want to allow mod authors to profit off your work.
Time will only tell how well Valve and Bethesda are going to handle these issues, and I'd say stolen assets being used in paid mods is one of, if not the biggest issue right now. Some of the rumours going around are not nice to hear, but we've got to let the dust settle and see what comes of all of this. It's too early to tell. I appreciate it's ironic to say that after I just had a little rant, but my god, it's already freaking happened, less than a day in, and I've smashed my head in to my desk on more than one occasion today in disbelief because of it. So not a great start from Valve and Bethesda, but yes, it's still to early to tell.
There's nothing wrong with paid mods. If the market wants it, it'll have it. If not one wants to pay for them, then the concept will wither on the vine.
At best nothing comes of this. At worse Value/Bethesda have just created a new market for piracy.
The actual bad part of this is the split. 75% for doing virtually nothing. That and people stealing other people's mods.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/25 13:23:34
As pointed out in that Skyrim Nexus owner's post, there's a glaring issue with this system. A lot of mods use other mod's resources. The largest quest mods on the Nexus all do this. I mean like including things like new bookcase meshes, or sound effects, that type of thing. Wet and Cold, one of the paid mods, is using cloaks from another mod...
Unless these authors strip out this content or ask the creator's permission then they're committing theft right? The modders resource rules on the Nexus, where most of this content comes from, typically states "anyone can use this, but not for commercial use". Actually looking at the workshop now another paid mod Shezrie's Bleakden Town is using free modders resources with just this tag as well.
In other words, Valve's done their typical thing of not considering the implications of their actions. Though again as was pointed out the Nexus' owner, they don't have to care. Under the current system even if they give a user back their money, they do so through credit on Steam. Rather when you give Valve money for one of these mods and ask for a refund, you don't actually get your money back (which I'm sure isn't legal...).
I can see this system needing a lot of work to become something that's stable and not open to so much abuse, but at the moment the whole thing is a shambles. Hey they still haven't sorted out the Early Access and all the actual criminality (the theft of mods is nothing compared to that crap) going on their either, so I suppose now is just about the right time to try and cash in somewhere else?/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/25 13:39:37
nomotog wrote: Mods have existed in kind of a legal gray area, Often not legal, but not worth suing because there is no money in it. Add money to it and well your testing that allowance.
Skyrim modding has always been 100% legal. You cannot explicitly grant people permission to create and use mods and then turn around and pretend that they are violating your IP by creating and using mods. It would be like Games Workshop publishing painting guides and then suing you for painting your Space Marines like Blood Angels.
I don't think the macho dragon mod counts, or many other mods that take from different IPs.
Will paid modders now have to apply for commercial licences for their copies of 3ds Max, now? I can't see many, if any, actually admitting that any 3rd party software is being used to developed paid-for content with the pitiful amounts they get from sales. Which will be rather ironic, in the end: modders ripping off software development companies in order to develop paid content that they don't want other people getting for free.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
There is given the organic way that they are created. Many mods use assets from other mods or have a very large number of contributors; this simply will not work with commercialised mods. As was mentioned further up in the thread mod makers also tend to provide each other with a great deal of technical assistance and knowledge sharing, this is something else that will not work with commercialised mods. The net result of commercial mods will be a reduced number of mods which are technically and creatively inferior, that is in no ones interest.
A donation system would be a far, far superior method for financially rewarding mod makers.
Hopefully the huge backlash that this has created will force Valve into a rethink.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/25 16:23:18
Avatar 720 wrote: Will paid modders now have to apply for commercial licences for their copies of 3ds Max, now? I can't see many, if any, actually admitting that any 3rd party software is being used to developed paid-for content with the pitiful amounts they get from sales. Which will be rather ironic, in the end: modders ripping off software development companies in order to develop paid content that they don't want other people getting for free.
I just don't see Valve doing a good job moderating. Basically anything that isn't a sex animation will probably go, and those will probably manage to sneak in, too.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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^^ As I've pointed out one at least two of their "debut" mods are breaching some sort of law about intellectual copyright by using other modder's content which they were only allowed to use for non-commercial means. Valve hardly moderates Steam to begin with, this is just another area for them to fail at. I do wonder however just why they haven't been sued by the actual owners of all the stuff that's been stolen, as they're hosting this content and taking a cut of the profits (I'm speaking about the games that have gone up on Early-Access specifically here, but the same applies to these mods too).
Valve dose not moderate the workshop. You can look at the workshop for table top sim and it's more or less pirates bay for card games.
This idea of paid mods might have worked better on a new game where you could start on a clean slate rather then trying to convert a free system into a paid one.
Most Workshop mods are terrible anyway. The Nexus is the best place for mods for all the games the Nexus supports... which is a lot.
I'm sure Nexus will set up some kind of donation system, basically to show Steam how it's done, but I don't expect much to change there.
Also, to the question of removing the files to a mod and then getting a refund, the Workshop works slightly differently than it does via the Nexus. The files are based on what you're subscribed to, and are installed and updated via the Skyrim launcher. You might be able to rip the files for certain smaller mods, but the larger mods, especially script-intensive ones, will probably not make that a feasible option.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.