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Title say it. Both are equal in points.

The Revenant is AV12 with 9HP and 2 guns that fire 2 strD large blasts each. Can move 36" and still shoot, and ignores incoming hits on a 4+.

3 WKs have a combined 18 wounds and a total of 6 single shot strD guns

With the old D rules, I would have said the Revenant.

Nowadays, the Wraithknights. They can be in 3 places at once and still split fire with their cannons. That is excellent.

Revenant is scary but it's easier to beat super-heavies than it is to beat Gargantuans.

Yeah, I almost felt silly asking. Plus, I think the WKs have better CC than the Revenant

The revenant is a pure shooter, and in that capacity will crush the wraithknights handily. They may never even close with the thing... The revenant has a decent chance tokill two of the wraithknights in the first salvo. And if they aren't in range they couldn't retaliate.

In a one on one (three?) battle yeah I expect the Revenant to crush all the Wraithknights.

In a list against other armies, Wraithknights would be better.

It's also just occurred to me that the Holofields mean that Destroyer hit has a 50% chance of doing gak xD

Wraithknights. They can hold 3 objectives and fire at 6 targets. They have twice as many wounds before going down. No brainer here.

Revenant has blasts, meaning he has the option to kill multiple models per shot. Wraithknights only kill 6 MODELS per shooting phase. Not to mention the shoulder mounted missile launchers on the revenant titan.

Actually it's not a no brainer. On a battlefield proportionate to the combatants I would vote the revenant.

Revenant can fire its guns independently and four D-strength blasts are going to do more damage than six D-strength single shots; the problem is that the Wraithknights are a much bigger threat in melee (higher I, more Attacks, higher WS, and more Stomps from three of them). The Wraithknights are probably more effective in most matchups, there are possible situations in which the Revenant is a better choice but there aren't so many.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Revenant can fire its guns independently and four D-strength blasts are going to do more damage than six D-strength single shots; the problem is that the Wraithknights are a much bigger threat in melee (higher I, more Attacks, higher WS, and more Stomps from three of them). The Wraithknights are probably more effective in most matchups, there are possible situations in which the Revenant is a better choice but there aren't so many.

The Revenant can splitfire its guns, but only has 2 guns (and a lesser missile launcher) to splitfire, meaning 2 D-blasts at one unit, 2 D-blasts at another, and a third unit can be hit by the missiles.

Another thing to comtemplate, it mixing WKs, say 2 of them are stock, 1 has Suncannon/Shield. Would that change anything?

As a general rule, multiple smaller targets > one large target. And that holds here.

The Revanent is also a little squishier. T8 with 3+ armor and FnP>AV12 that stops shooting on a 4+

AV12 is low enough to where you can bring enough volume of fire to get past that 4+. T8 with 3+ armor and FnP is much tougher.

The revenants mobility is what tips it in its favour for me. The 36" move is a massive game changer

And the revenant guns are 60 inch range. Plus you gotta hit the revenant twice with shooting.

Unless the WK are at the back of the board or you're playing an Apoc level game, they should be able to almost always hit the Rev. Mid-field they'll be able to hit the entirety of the average board. Spread them out enough so that a LBlast can only hit one at a time and they will probably win.

It's pretty fething sad that we actually have to have this thread, considering the fact that the Revenant spawned multiple threads and at least one Youtube video about how it is simply too broken for normal games outside of Apocalypse.

Knights.

1 v 3, the Revenant is clearly better.

As a chunk of a TAC army list, I take the Wraithknights for board saturation and redundancy.

Revenant, unless one of the WKs manages to catch it. The Revenant really really sucks in melee.

What is scarier: not getting games with 1 Eldar Revenant titan or not getting games with 3 WraithKnights?

The revenant lost "OMG, SCARY!" status when it stopped ignoring cover automatically.

Also, the battle report was rigged enough to be laughable. They had the eldar and tau battle bros taking on chaos, cheated by not having the proper amount of units to allow the formation to get the bonuses, and the chaos player still won the game! That was the video that made me stop taking front line's opinion seriously.

 koooaei wrote:
What is scarier: not getting games with 1 Eldar Revenant titan or not getting games with 3 WraithKnights?

Not getting to play at all is scarier than both combined...

 Xerics wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
What is scarier: not getting games with 1 Eldar Revenant titan or not getting games with 3 WraithKnights?

Not getting to play at all is scarier than both combined...

What about an army that takes both, along with a ton of scatter bikes....

 Exergy wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
What is scarier: not getting games with 1 Eldar Revenant titan or not getting games with 3 WraithKnights?

Not getting to play at all is scarier than both combined...

What about an army that takes both, along with a ton of scatter bikes....

Its funny because I have 3 revenants, 5 wraithknights, and 60 bikes that i use in apocalypse. Getting a phantom titan next month.

goldleader23 wrote:
Its funny because I have 3 revenants, 5 wraithknights, and 60 bikes that i use in apocalypse. Getting a phantom titan next month.

WINNING!!!

I love that you commit to the big FW stuff.

Maybe I should sell some of that 2E metal I'm sitting on, to buy some FW for myself, like the Warp Hunter grav tank - sexy!

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The revenant lost "OMG, SCARY!" status when it stopped ignoring cover automatically.

Also, the battle report was rigged enough to be laughable. They had the eldar and tau battle bros taking on chaos, cheated by not having the proper amount of units to allow the formation to get the bonuses, and the chaos player still won the game! That was the video that made me stop taking front line's opinion seriously.

Which one was this?

I would say the REV is scarier.

36" Move, can fire a weapon and run, or fire all weapons.

Its main guns are 2 shot large blast D weapons, so it gets 4 large blast D weapon shots a turn plus the missile launcher shots- which are only str5 but AP3.

If it was a game versus just WK the REV can not miss with its D weapons, a roll of 12-4(BS) is 8 inch scatter, the large blast is 3" radius, and would still be touching the long part of the WK base on either side. It would have to roll a 12 and scatter exactly perpindicular up or down 45 degrees to miss. The chance of this happening are 1/4*1/36. Or less than 1%..

With its move it can pick its targets always. A Wk cannot.

If the WK are near each other it can possibly hit more than 1 at a time.

On average the REV will put 4 D hits on any WK each turn, resulting in 8 HP.

The WKS won't bunch up because large blast, so most likely if the REV player has a brain, they used the 36" move to position to fire on model, have return fire from 1 WK and the other WK would have to move and possible be out of range still.

With HoloFields you are looking at 2 WKs if both are in range doing an average 3 hits, holofield save drops to 1.5 Avg Hp removed is 3. Yeah you could get lucky and roll a 6 on D table, but could also get 'lucky' and roll a 1.

If 1 Wk it averages .75hits....

If the WKs go first and all are in range, they will average 4 hits, holofield will reduce to 2.64 hits, avg HP done would be 5.2.

The only even chance the WKs have to win are going first, all WKs get into firing position and fire, next turn they need to do slighglty above average with the 2 that will still be alive and they would maybe average 9 hps.

If there is terrain, the REV goes first, or all the WKs can/t make range on first turn with them going first the odds are very much in the revenants favor.

Aren't you discounting the WK invul and the chance of a 1 on the Rev?

If all are in range, that's six shots, averaging a single 6 plus 4 1d3 more.

If all in range its 6 shots, 4 will hit because its not a blast weapon and they need a 3+.

The REV even without moving gets holo fields, and the player has to roll another 3+ to hit for the shots that did hit...

So on average 2.6 hits. Which is not an average of a 6.

I did not factor in a 6 for the Rev because it offsets the 1, i also did not factor in rolling a 1 for the Wks for the same reason.

I did not factor in INV saves because if the WKs have 2 wraithcannons each they are not having a shield.

Destroyer hits negate FnP, so no FnP either.

Statistically if all three WKs go first, and are in range they will do 5-6 Hp to the REV on average. This is an unlikely event, even on a table with no terrain unless all three WKS were grouped together, and if the rev player seizes in that case there is a high chance they will table the WK player before the WK player gets to roll any dice.

in no way does BS4 average the shots you think it does.

BS 4 is 3+ to hit, not 2+. Even at a 2+ to hit (which is BS5..) you are looking at 5 hits, reduced back down to average 3 from holo fields. Holo fields kick in before armor pen rolls or D table rolls so they can negate D hits.

Yeah the WK player could get lucky and roll a 6 on the D table for shots that get through the holo field- and that would pretty much end the game for the REV. But that is outside of the average rolling.

Regardless of all of that, outside of 3 WKs versus the REV. The rev fighting against some other armor, and the WKs fighting against the same other army the REV has more death it will bring. Its firing off 4 D large blasts and 4 S5 AP3 shots a turn most likely. 3 WKs with heavy wraithcannon on firing 6 single D shots, 4 of which hit on average. Against most armies that is killing 1-4 models a turn, the REV has the power to kill 1-4 units a turn.

I think you might give a 5+ or 6+ cover save to the WKs, but otherwise, yeah, the Rev should auto-win against 3 WKs.