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the best close combat legion.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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best close combat marines (average of best swordsman, best CC tactics/doctrine)
blood angels
ultramarines
dark angels
imperial fists
raven guard
iron hands
Luna wolves
world eaters
word bearers
thousand sons
death guard
iron warriors
alpha legion
space wolves
night lords
white scars
salamanders
the last legion who's name escapes me.
black templar. wait, how'd you get on this li- *BLAM*

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Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





As the question. Self explanatory however, by close combat I don't mean melee only. (It plays a significant part) but their is also short ranged weaponry/firing drills (10-40ft out) etc. General melee tactics and the like to consider.

Gotta to Luna wolves or blood angels myself. Argument for world eaters can certinally be made.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 01:39:40


 Wyzilla wrote:

Because Plague Marines have the evasion abilities of a drunk elephant.


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There was a rivalry between the Blood Angels and the World Eaters for who were the best assault marines, but I think the Blood Angels leveled the playing field with their heavy use of jump packs. In straight up CC, I have to give it to the World Eaters.
   
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Space Wolves would be counted as well at least in my opinion.
   
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Space Wolves or Blood Angels. I'd immediately disqualify the World Eaters given that they are far from the best as their strategy to melee combat is to bumrush the enemy blindly.

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Boskydell, IL

World Eaters. Approach you enemy with enough aggression and he will be forced to abandon strategy and answer in kind. And once he is fighting your way, you will have the advantage. A shockingly intelligent battle doctrine.

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Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds





 Wyzilla wrote:
Space Wolves or Blood Angels. I'd immediately disqualify the World Eaters given that they are far from the best as their strategy to melee combat is to bumrush the enemy blindly.

Considering it worked against highly advanced alien empires and even Mechanicus secessionists for the better part of the great crusade I'd call it a viable strategy.

"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay". 
   
Made in gr
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






Reading, UK

It's a pretty good question actually. The obvious choices would be World Eaters, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

I agree with Wyzilla in a way and I think the World Eaters would be the worst choice in certain situations due to their lack of control. But then again, that is the way they did things and could also be a boon. That lack of compassion gets the job done.

I would also not discount the White Scars who seem to all be about getting close and personal after their lightning assault.

NB: Last Legion is the Emperors Children

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 08:02:57


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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





 Khonsu wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Space Wolves or Blood Angels. I'd immediately disqualify the World Eaters given that they are far from the best as their strategy to melee combat is to bumrush the enemy blindly.

Considering it worked against highly advanced alien empires and even Mechanicus secessionists for the better part of the great crusade I'd call it a viable strategy.


And considering their attrition rate from this tactic, it's quite clearly it wasn't a very successful one compared to the other Legions.

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Word Bearers are stealing votes from World Eaters!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 08:40:59


 
   
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 koooaei wrote:
Word Bearers are stealing votes from World Eaters!


Enemy will rather run than listen to them

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 Orblivion wrote:
There was a rivalry between the Blood Angels and the World Eaters for who were the best assault marines, but I think the Blood Angels leveled the playing field with their heavy use of jump packs. In straight up CC, I have to give it to the World Eaters.


IIRC the WE did too, they especially used what are now Raptors for the brutal shock and awe butchery they liked

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Made in gr
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Reading, UK

 Naberiel wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Word Bearers are stealing votes from World Eaters!


Enemy will rather run than listen to them


Or kill themselves because of the incessant droning and harking on about the Dark Gods, truth, lies of the Emperor yadda yadda yadda

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Fluffwise if we were saying not just melee but also short ranged weaponry then the Blood Angels. If we said just pure hand to hand fighting then I would say it is pretty equal between Blood Angels and World Eaters.

On the tabletop there is no comparison between Khorne Bezerkers and Death Company - Blood Angels definitely edge them there.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/01 09:58:08


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You do NOT want to stand in front of a World Eater.

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 Ouze wrote:

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 Slaphead wrote:
Fluffwise if we were saying not just melee but also short ranged weaponry then the Blood Angels. If we said just pure hand to hand fighting then I would say it is pretty equal between Blood Angels and World Eaters.

On the tabletop there is no comparison between Khorne Bezerkers and Death Company - Blood Angels definitely edge them there.

I really don't think tabletop comparisons have a place in WH40k Background, Other than that I agree with you.

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Emperor's Children...
   
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Tunneling Trygon






Emperor's Children are the ones you forgot and they take the cake. Blood Angels have brilliant tactics of using ASM in attacks, but they lose out on 'best swordsman' by a mile. World Eaters have zero tactics and win by brute strength. That is also far from a 'best' stamp. Emperor's Children perfect the art of close combat, use the squads elegantly and without fail.

Compare the Palantine Blades to the best Blood Angel swordsmen. But wait, there is no true 'close combat elite' squad in the Angels. The Sanguinary Guard are just exceptional warriors all around, not masters of close combat. Again, the World Eaters barely even get a mention. You don't call a freight train the world's best hammer even though it will pound something in front of it too.
   
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Glasgow, Scotland

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Emperor's Children are the ones you forgot and they take the cake. Blood Angels have brilliant tactics of using ASM in attacks, but they lose out on 'best swordsman' by a mile. World Eaters have zero tactics and win by brute strength. That is also far from a 'best' stamp. Emperor's Children perfect the art of close combat, use the squads elegantly and without fail.

Compare the Palantine Blades to the best Blood Angel swordsmen. But wait, there is no true 'close combat elite' squad in the Angels. The Sanguinary Guard are just exceptional warriors all around, not masters of close combat. Again, the World Eaters barely even get a mention. You don't call a freight train the world's best hammer even though it will pound something in front of it too.



No, but when World Eater Terminators with spikey things on their weapon just constantly hammer away with no pause and no time to counter or go on the offensive, the Palatine Blades can go get REKT. Angron would be Fulgrim afterall, same thing here.

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But that isn't the question. 'Average of best swordman/best CC tactics', not 'who would win in a sandy pit'. World Eaters are barbarians, not swordsmen, and they have no tactics. So they score a zero on both criteria. Yes it gives them results, but we're not asking about who can rip apart the city fastest.

I love the World Eaters but hate Fulgrim, but still have to give credit where it is due.
   
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Glasgow, Scotland

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
But that isn't the question. 'Average of best swordman/best CC tactics', not 'who would win in a sandy pit'. World Eaters are barbarians, not swordsmen, and they have no tactics. So they score a zero on both criteria. Yes it gives them results, but we're not asking about who can rip apart the city fastest.

I love the World Eaters but hate Fulgrim, but still have to give credit where it is due.


They are Gladiators, not barbarians. There is a difference. Many of them are extremely skillful with axes, swords and other melee weapons. They wouldn't survive the pits if they weren't. And they have extremely solid tactics. Wail on your opponent so relentlessly they can't apply their own tactics and have to fight on your terms.

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 Jimsolo wrote:
World Eaters. Approach you enemy with enough aggression and he will be forced to abandon strategy and answer in kind. And once he is fighting your way, you will have the advantage. A shockingly intelligent battle doctrine.


Yeah, your train, build and plan around one brutally effective tactic and then make your enemy play your game.

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Also, if we look at the War hounds, Pre angron, they still had a huge reputation for assault and CC success. it is what their legion prided themselves on. Angron and the Butchers nails made them angry and rage filled, but the martial prowess was always there.

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Ultra marines duh - they are the best at everything.

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Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.
   
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Animus wrote:
Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.


I don't buy for a second that the Ultramarines are/were the most skilled in close combat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 17:29:44


 
   
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The Iron Hands can't be overlooked, as they can go from methodical warriors into raving berserkers just by turning a mental switch, and they had the finest Terminators of them all in the Morlocs.
   
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 Orblivion wrote:
Animus wrote:
Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.


I don't buy for a second that the Ultramarines are/were the most skilled in close combat.


Why not? The Ultramarines are all about skill.

Codex Space Marines, 6e wrote:Whether laying down disciplined bolter fire, charging the foe with chainswords roaring, or pounding them into submission with their heavy weapons, none can equal the Ultramarines’ skill.


Personal honour and dueling is also a big thing in Ultramar, and it is said in Index Astartes Volume I that the Ultramarines likely invented the Company Champion position, who is all about high skill melee, within the Legions.
   
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Once they get into close combat, I think the World Eaters beat every other Legion. SW are probably second (it was a very close match between them and World Eaters).

Animus wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
Animus wrote:
Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.


I don't buy for a second that the Ultramarines are/were the most skilled in close combat.


Why not? The Ultramarines are all about skill.

Codex Space Marines, 6e wrote:Whether laying down disciplined bolter fire, charging the foe with chainswords roaring, or pounding them into submission with their heavy weapons, none can equal the Ultramarines’ skill.


Personal honour and dueling is also a big thing in Ultramar, and it is said in Index Astartes Volume I that the Ultramarines likely invented the Company Champion position, who is all about high skill melee, within the Legions.

Ultramarines are beaten in that regard by Emperor's Children though. Ultramarines have never had the reputation as great fighters, they are known as strategists and planners, not close combat fighters.

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 Iron_Captain wrote:
Ultramarines have never had the reputation as great fighters


They do though. They're known for their all round excellence.
I even just posted something which says they have unmatched skill when it comes to shooting or assault.
   
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Animus wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
Ultramarines have never had the reputation as great fighters


They do though. They're known for their all round excellence.
I even just posted something which says they have unmatched skill when it comes to shooting or assault.

All round means they do not specialise in anything, meaning they will be outclassed by a Legion that does focus on close combat.
That quote is meaningless firstly because it is about the Ultramarines chapter, not the legion, and secondly because the same thing is said about the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists and others. Every faction presents itself as being the best and most powerful.

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