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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 01:38:27
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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As the question. Self explanatory however, by close combat I don't mean melee only. (It plays a significant part) but their is also short ranged weaponry/firing drills (10-40ft out) etc. General melee tactics and the like to consider.
Gotta to Luna wolves or blood angels myself. Argument for world eaters can certinally be made.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 01:39:40
Wyzilla wrote:
Because Plague Marines have the evasion abilities of a drunk elephant.
Burn the Heretic
Kill the mutant
Purge the Unclean |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 01:41:57
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
Massachusetts
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There was a rivalry between the Blood Angels and the World Eaters for who were the best assault marines, but I think the Blood Angels leveled the playing field with their heavy use of jump packs. In straight up CC, I have to give it to the World Eaters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 01:45:02
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Space Wolves would be counted as well at least in my opinion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 01:55:18
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Space Wolves or Blood Angels. I'd immediately disqualify the World Eaters given that they are far from the best as their strategy to melee combat is to bumrush the enemy blindly.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 04:48:13
Subject: Re:the best close combat legion.
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Hellish Haemonculus
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World Eaters. Approach you enemy with enough aggression and he will be forced to abandon strategy and answer in kind. And once he is fighting your way, you will have the advantage. A shockingly intelligent battle doctrine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 07:19:16
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds
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Wyzilla wrote:Space Wolves or Blood Angels. I'd immediately disqualify the World Eaters given that they are far from the best as their strategy to melee combat is to bumrush the enemy blindly.
Considering it worked against highly advanced alien empires and even Mechanicus secessionists for the better part of the great crusade I'd call it a viable strategy.
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"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 08:00:59
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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It's a pretty good question actually. The obvious choices would be World Eaters, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.
I agree with Wyzilla in a way and I think the World Eaters would be the worst choice in certain situations due to their lack of control. But then again, that is the way they did things and could also be a boon. That lack of compassion gets the job done.
I would also not discount the White Scars who seem to all be about getting close and personal after their lightning assault.
NB: Last Legion is the Emperors Children
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 08:02:57
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 08:33:43
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Khonsu wrote: Wyzilla wrote:Space Wolves or Blood Angels. I'd immediately disqualify the World Eaters given that they are far from the best as their strategy to melee combat is to bumrush the enemy blindly.
Considering it worked against highly advanced alien empires and even Mechanicus secessionists for the better part of the great crusade I'd call it a viable strategy.
And considering their attrition rate from this tactic, it's quite clearly it wasn't a very successful one compared to the other Legions.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 08:40:44
Subject: Re:the best close combat legion.
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Word Bearers are stealing votes from World Eaters!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 08:40:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 08:54:54
Subject: Re:the best close combat legion.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Enemy will rather run than listen to them
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"Faith is the soul of any army; be it vested in primitive religion or enlightened truth. It makes even the least soldier mighty, the craven is remade worthy and through its balm any hardship may be endured. Faith ennobles all of the worlds the soldier undertakes be they so base or vile, and imports to them the golden spark of transcendent purpose."
— Lorgar Aurelian, Primarch of the Word Bearers |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 08:57:51
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Orblivion wrote:There was a rivalry between the Blood Angels and the World Eaters for who were the best assault marines, but I think the Blood Angels leveled the playing field with their heavy use of jump packs. In straight up CC, I have to give it to the World Eaters.
IIRC the WE did too, they especially used what are now Raptors for the brutal shock and awe butchery they liked
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 09:02:52
Subject: Re:the best close combat legion.
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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Or kill themselves because of the incessant droning and harking on about the Dark Gods, truth, lies of the Emperor yadda yadda yadda
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 09:57:06
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker
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Fluffwise if we were saying not just melee but also short ranged weaponry then the Blood Angels. If we said just pure hand to hand fighting then I would say it is pretty equal between Blood Angels and World Eaters.
On the tabletop there is no comparison between Khorne Bezerkers and Death Company - Blood Angels definitely edge them there.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/01 09:58:08
"For The Emperor and Sanguinius!"
My Armies:
Blood Angels, Ultramarines,
Astra Militarum,
Mechanicus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 10:02:51
Subject: Re:the best close combat legion.
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Hulking Hunter-class Warmech
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You do NOT want to stand in front of a World Eater.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 10:06:50
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds
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Slaphead wrote:Fluffwise if we were saying not just melee but also short ranged weaponry then the Blood Angels. If we said just pure hand to hand fighting then I would say it is pretty equal between Blood Angels and World Eaters.
On the tabletop there is no comparison between Khorne Bezerkers and Death Company - Blood Angels definitely edge them there.
I really don't think tabletop comparisons have a place in WH40k Background, Other than that I agree with you.
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"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 10:18:59
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Emperor's Children...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 10:30:12
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Tunneling Trygon
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Emperor's Children are the ones you forgot and they take the cake. Blood Angels have brilliant tactics of using ASM in attacks, but they lose out on 'best swordsman' by a mile. World Eaters have zero tactics and win by brute strength. That is also far from a 'best' stamp. Emperor's Children perfect the art of close combat, use the squads elegantly and without fail.
Compare the Palantine Blades to the best Blood Angel swordsmen. But wait, there is no true 'close combat elite' squad in the Angels. The Sanguinary Guard are just exceptional warriors all around, not masters of close combat. Again, the World Eaters barely even get a mention. You don't call a freight train the world's best hammer even though it will pound something in front of it too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 12:43:43
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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SharkoutofWata wrote:Emperor's Children are the ones you forgot and they take the cake. Blood Angels have brilliant tactics of using ASM in attacks, but they lose out on 'best swordsman' by a mile. World Eaters have zero tactics and win by brute strength. That is also far from a 'best' stamp. Emperor's Children perfect the art of close combat, use the squads elegantly and without fail.
Compare the Palantine Blades to the best Blood Angel swordsmen. But wait, there is no true 'close combat elite' squad in the Angels. The Sanguinary Guard are just exceptional warriors all around, not masters of close combat. Again, the World Eaters barely even get a mention. You don't call a freight train the world's best hammer even though it will pound something in front of it too.
No, but when World Eater Terminators with spikey things on their weapon just constantly hammer away with no pause and no time to counter or go on the offensive, the Palatine Blades can go get REKT. Angron would be Fulgrim afterall, same thing here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 13:09:09
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Tunneling Trygon
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But that isn't the question. 'Average of best swordman/best CC tactics', not 'who would win in a sandy pit'. World Eaters are barbarians, not swordsmen, and they have no tactics. So they score a zero on both criteria. Yes it gives them results, but we're not asking about who can rip apart the city fastest.
I love the World Eaters but hate Fulgrim, but still have to give credit where it is due.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 13:15:50
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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SharkoutofWata wrote:But that isn't the question. 'Average of best swordman/best CC tactics', not 'who would win in a sandy pit'. World Eaters are barbarians, not swordsmen, and they have no tactics. So they score a zero on both criteria. Yes it gives them results, but we're not asking about who can rip apart the city fastest.
I love the World Eaters but hate Fulgrim, but still have to give credit where it is due.
They are Gladiators, not barbarians. There is a difference. Many of them are extremely skillful with axes, swords and other melee weapons. They wouldn't survive the pits if they weren't. And they have extremely solid tactics. Wail on your opponent so relentlessly they can't apply their own tactics and have to fight on your terms.
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I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
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Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 13:55:38
Subject: Re:the best close combat legion.
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Jimsolo wrote:World Eaters. Approach you enemy with enough aggression and he will be forced to abandon strategy and answer in kind. And once he is fighting your way, you will have the advantage. A shockingly intelligent battle doctrine.
Yeah, your train, build and plan around one brutally effective tactic and then make your enemy play your game.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 13:58:36
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Member of the Malleus
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Also, if we look at the War hounds, Pre angron, they still had a huge reputation for assault and CC success. it is what their legion prided themselves on. Angron and the Butchers nails made them angry and rage filled, but the martial prowess was always there.
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The Emperor Protects
Strike Force Voulge led by Lord Inquisitor Severus Vaul: 7000 points painted
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 14:33:01
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Ultra marines duh - they are the best at everything.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 14:42:44
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Dakka Veteran
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Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 17:21:05
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
Massachusetts
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Animus wrote:Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.
I don't buy for a second that the Ultramarines are/were the most skilled in close combat.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/01 17:29:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 18:25:53
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The Iron Hands can't be overlooked, as they can go from methodical warriors into raving berserkers just by turning a mental switch, and they had the finest Terminators of them all in the Morlocs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 22:32:22
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Dakka Veteran
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Orblivion wrote:Animus wrote:Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.
I don't buy for a second that the Ultramarines are/were the most skilled in close combat.
Why not? The Ultramarines are all about skill.
Codex Space Marines, 6e wrote:Whether laying down disciplined bolter fire, charging the foe with chainswords roaring, or pounding them into submission with their heavy weapons, none can equal the Ultramarines’ skill.
Personal honour and dueling is also a big thing in Ultramar, and it is said in Index Astartes Volume I that the Ultramarines likely invented the Company Champion position, who is all about high skill melee, within the Legions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 22:52:35
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Once they get into close combat, I think the World Eaters beat every other Legion. SW are probably second (it was a very close match between them and World Eaters).
Animus wrote: Orblivion wrote:Animus wrote:Ultramarines in terms of skill.
Blood Angels probably best overall as they have bonus ferocity.
I don't buy for a second that the Ultramarines are/were the most skilled in close combat.
Why not? The Ultramarines are all about skill.
Codex Space Marines, 6e wrote:Whether laying down disciplined bolter fire, charging the foe with chainswords roaring, or pounding them into submission with their heavy weapons, none can equal the Ultramarines’ skill.
Personal honour and dueling is also a big thing in Ultramar, and it is said in Index Astartes Volume I that the Ultramarines likely invented the Company Champion position, who is all about high skill melee, within the Legions.
Ultramarines are beaten in that regard by Emperor's Children though. Ultramarines have never had the reputation as great fighters, they are known as strategists and planners, not close combat fighters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/01 22:58:58
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Dakka Veteran
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They do though. They're known for their all round excellence.
I even just posted something which says they have unmatched skill when it comes to shooting or assault.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/02 07:24:41
Subject: the best close combat legion.
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Animus wrote:
They do though. They're known for their all round excellence.
I even just posted something which says they have unmatched skill when it comes to shooting or assault.
All round means they do not specialise in anything, meaning they will be outclassed by a Legion that does focus on close combat.
That quote is meaningless firstly because it is about the Ultramarines chapter, not the legion, and secondly because the same thing is said about the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists and others. Every faction presents itself as being the best and most powerful.
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