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I think he will stay an HQ choice, just like Abaddon did.

tulun wrote:
Unless they remove that Goff lock, it’s all probably irrelevant anyway.

We’ll see though. Orks need a boost and hopefully this is just what we need.

I can't imagine they will keep him kulture locked. They'd be able to push him so much harder if he was open for everyone.

tulun wrote:
Unless they remove that Goff lock, it’s all probably irrelevant anyway.

We’ll see though. Orks need a boost and hopefully this is just what we need.

I would prefer this was not the boost we need. Would suck to be forced to use special character


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 Haasbioroid wrote:

tulun wrote:
Unless they remove that Goff lock, it’s all probably irrelevant anyway.

We’ll see though. Orks need a boost and hopefully this is just what we need.

I can't imagine they will keep him kulture locked. They'd be able to push him so much harder if he was open for everyone.

Eh they just released brand new abbadon that was legion locked. And sisters got new sc that's order locked(and not even to most powerful one).

Ehh, even if he stays kulture locked it really is not that hard to do a single Goff battalion with Ghaz, a Weirdboy, and some Grots (possibly a unit of Boyz too if you want to try out some Skarboyz) since his abilities are not kulture locked. That said, I am hoping he gets a kulture exception like Flash Gitz to make it easier to just plug him in and it definitely would get GW more money if they go that route so there is some slim hope it could happen.

yeah i'll be surprised if he's not goff locked.
But with kustom kultures, if we get it, probably not an issue.

Also, forced to use a special character? So you dont like the idea of always bringing a named character but fine with the SSAG? I 100% do not care if a unit is so good i must bring them all the time...if its a character. Both because HQs are in general pretty meh this edition and i WANT my HQs to be badasses.

I could see it with Abbadon, because he is the Chaos warmaster but Thousand Sons are chaos, and they aren't hanging out with Abbadon, they are hanging with Magnus. I don't know about Sisters stuff so I don't know about how they're orders work, but from the idea I'm getting from PA, this is supposed to be a big push for orks, so it just seems like it would make sense for him to either not be kulture locked, or be locked out of kultures entirely. So that he can just be the boss that the orks need.


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As always, I'm still very new to all this, and this just seems like what makes sense to me.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah i'll be surprised if he's not goff locked.
But with kustom kultures, if we get it, probably not an issue.

Also, forced to use a special character? So you dont like the idea of always bringing a named character but fine with the SSAG? I 100% do not care if a unit is so good i must bring them all the time...if its a character. Both because HQs are in general pretty meh this edition and i WANT my HQs to be badasses.

If you need to bring sc to compete then yes i don't want that. It makes playing boring and balancing rest hard as ghaz by definition would be broken good to compensate for rest and helping other units would be impossible without making orks broken. 8th ed already had such a case. It's bad for game and army itself. Selfishess there hurts game and would shoot orks in foot.

Fix orks. Don't make broken crutch with rest being tax

And yes i would prefer ssag to not be automatic crutch either. Those are bad for game and army period

The better solution is just a mixed clan detachment anyway instead of a pure Goff

If he's just exploding 6's in combat, I could care less, unless he somehow gets a billion attacks. I'd rather grots be the same kultur as my SSAG or vulnerable infantry for grot shields.

Given that both Primarneus Calgar and Abbadon got updated rules when they were updated, I feel like Ghazzy will get a fair few changes as well. With regards to him being Klan-locked or not, I feel like he'll get the exception rule where he can benefit from the Goff Klanz trait but he doesn't make anyone lose it if he's in their detachment that isn't Goffs. Ghazzy already works above the usual Klan system anyways, and given his size I wouldn't be surprised if he went up to 9 wounds. Hopefully they give him at least 6 attacks as well (always bothered by how few he had in comparison to other CC specialist characters). I feel like he needs a rule that makes him more appealing to other Klanz besides +1 attack on the charge or his Klan-less "Breakin' Eads" rule. At least to justify his current cost, which is exorbitant both within and outside the Ork codex.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:


I've built three of them from trukk/Deffkopta/plane and miscellaneous bits. Some pics below. Might be able to place some better pics and run you through the bits if someone is interested. Running the Chinorks for some time now since I love their orky craziness. They are super fast and handy but extremely fragile gunboats. They work very well wit tankbustas in them coming from DS. I also like to put in some nobs with kustom shootas or (very expensive) kombi-skorchas.

They die to a stiff breeze however. Not even a Wazbom will do much good to keep them airborne once your opponent singles them out. And beware of keeping a Reroll for the explosion cause it is devastating when it happens (lost half my army once due to it. But also managed to blow the guts out of my opponents army when it blew up). Gotta love these things.

Spoiler:

This is awesome, thanks! I think I want to build 1-2. It seems like a fun way to drop in tankbustas from deepstrike while saving 2 CP. You can even give the thing a KMB, so it'll have a nice anti-tank round when it drops.

On a related note: has anyone kitbashed a Chinork? They seem like they’d be fun to play.

I have a Trukk and two Deff Kopta set aside to produce a Chinork. Plan to remove chassis and cockpit panel from Trukk; invert side panels to give the Chinork ‘wings’,; cover over the driver seats and attach a Deff Kopta rear to the Trukk engine. Second Kopta attaches to the Trukk rear, add skids etc and profit. Obviously have to extend the rear rotors.
Looking forward to see how the buggy list does. They are effective but a real pain in deployment and when terrain is cluttered it will destroy your game plan and chance of victory. You do not want to play a game over the long edges with loads of terrain and a dozen buggies.

Saw this, good to know

They will probably lock ghazz in goffs, ghazz is not O'shaserra, it wouldnt be fair being Abaddon and stuff locked.

The point is ghazz must be good enough to choose goffs over evil sunz, I don't think it will happen, goffs are strong enough to kill whatever they touch, don't need more melee buffs

It's even more fundamental than that.

Imagine if Smash captains couldn't take jump packs. I guarantee you they would probably never see play (or rarely see play).

Ghazzy's fundamental problem is a good delivery mechanism into combat. If he doesn't get a bonus to charge, da jump (or tellyporta) isn't reliable enough for a 200+ point model; putting him in a transport means he has to wait at least 1 turn in order to be impactful (long enough for them to pop it and then shoot him off the board or counter charge him).

Slogging means he's damn slow. His auras will need to be massively impactful if that's going to be our best option, and even then, he's likely sniper mortal wound food.

We'll really have to see, but I am dubious. They would really have to acknowledge the problem of the walking boss and why it's rare to see one other than them breaking some heads.

Any results from. Lvo so far?

Ghazzy absolutely shouldn't be Goff locked. His whole schtick, one of his defining features and character traits is that he works with any clan, utilising their way of war to best compliment the WAAAGGGHHH!. He has worked with Evil Sunz speed freeks, he has stolen Bad Moon tech and he has used some of the sneakiest tactics the Blood Axes could employ. Obviously he has the sheer brutality of a Goff and it's his 'natural' clan but he's far beyond that now.

That's the fluff argument.

The other argument is sales. I'll buy him, even if he is Goff locked, but other pure clan players might not, particularly if we don't get MAWarbosses back. Speaking of, is there any chance this is a dual MABoss kit? I can't see it myself.

In terms of rules, what are we thinking? Makari buffs nearby Orks or is a 2++ for Ghaz? Makari will also be an ablative wound almost certainly which is quite big. Ghazzy looks massive - dreadnought sized, wonder if he'll breach 10 W.

Kebabcito wrote:
They will probably lock ghazz in goffs, ghazz is not O'shaserra, it wouldnt be fair being Abaddon and stuff locked.

The point is ghazz must be good enough to choose goffs over evil sunz, I don't think it will happen, goffs are strong enough to kill whatever they touch, don't need more melee buffs

Ghaz is kind of famous of leading any clan to victory, unlike Abaddon who has Chaos Marines of all origin join his Black Legion. Most of his closest followers weren't goff: Mad Dok Grotznik (Deffskulls), Orkimedes (Bad Moons), Nazdreg(Bad Moons), Badrukk (Freeboota), Kaptin Durg da Redklaw (Freeboota), Snikrot (Bloodaxes), Grak da Mighty (Snakebites) and so on.
In fact, Ghazghkull taking command of entire columns of Speed Freeks and using them with pin-point accuracy was one of the things which caught the Imperial most off guard during third war of Armageddon. The first ork tribe he ever commanded was a deff skulls warband, right after he stumbled out of Gortznik's tent and crushed their warboss.

So if any character is supposed to freely lead any sub-faction, it's Thrakka.


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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
In terms of rules, what are we thinking? Makari buffs nearby Orks or is a 2++ for Ghaz? Makari will also be an ablative wound almost certainly which is quite big. Ghazzy looks massive - dreadnought sized, wonder if he'll breach 10 W.

Doubt so. When you look at other remade traditional characters, we can hope for a +1A+1S+1T and 8-9 wounds. Which would probably make him pretty frightening. The few times I gave him a spin this edition he murdered his way across droves of primaris, crushing a unit per turn. The issue is getting him there though.

10 W Is more a nuisance than a buff, other they make him 12 or 9

Makari may be a way to cheat that limit though. If he has the statline of Da Red Gobbo, Ghaz could be 8+3 wounds.

9 wounds + Makari wound? Still character. Still below ten wounds.

He looks too big to fit into a transport, which is my concern.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
9 wounds + Makari wound? Still character. Still below ten wounds.

He looks too big to fit into a transport, which is my concern.

If he's infantry, he'll be fine.

He could be a monster like the Avatar, though, which would be a disaster.

On the topic of Goff lock - I don't believe this for a second will be the case but my suggestion, both for power and fluff, would be that including Ghaz in your army lets you mix and match Klan units in a detachment. So your Meganobs can be DeffSkullz and camp on objectives while Goff boyz charge up field with Ghaz and Evil Sunz bikers zip around and Freeboota Flash Gitz form a firebase

 Deadshot wrote:
On the topic of Goff lock - I don't believe this for a second will be the case but my suggestion, both for power and fluff, would be that including Ghaz in your army lets you mix and match Klan units in a detachment. So your Meganobs can be DeffSkullz and camp on objectives while Goff boyz charge up field with Ghaz and Evil Sunz bikers zip around and Freeboota Flash Gitz form a firebase

Someone get this man a job at GW for gods sake.

if hes Monster then we have an issue.
Unless they give him a special rule, "Da Boss's Ride" where hes allowed to embark OPEN TOPPED transports, taking 3-4 slots.
Which is a concept i wished we had for Deffdreads back long ago when technically their only issue was they never got across the board...let them embark on a trukk or wagon w/o 'ard case, but of course its just 1 model. Would have been dumb but would have been hilarious.

Remember, Girlyman is a Monster and if Ghazzy is proper sized he's even bigger.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if hes Monster then we have an issue.
Unless they give him a special rule, "Da Boss's Ride" where hes allowed to embark OPEN TOPPED transports, taking 3-4 slots.
Which is a concept i wished we had for Deffdreads back long ago when technically their only issue was they never got across the board...let them embark on a trukk or wagon w/o 'ard case, but of course its just 1 model. Would have been dumb but would have been hilarious.

Remember, Girlyman is a Monster and if Ghazzy is proper sized he's even bigger.

It's even more problematic than that.

If he's a monster, he can't really enter ruins anymore; He can't be Da Jumped; He wouldn't benefit from from an advance aura (unless he has a special rule for it); He couldn't be healed via Painboys (or even protected with their aura), etc, etc, etc

The infantry keyword is just too important for the myriad of rules. This is speculative, but I hope they aren't dumb enough to remove the infantry keyword.

Dajump yeah i could see that being sad, though realistically you wouldnt want to dajump him unless theres already ork units where hes going.

Painboys need a buff so this could be a kick to allow them to heal/fnp aura on monsters, which would be amazing for squiggoths byproxy lol

I'd probably Tellyport him every time anyway, assuming hes a massive beatstick he should be. By the time T2 shows up hes got things on either side of him to prevent the ENTIRE ENEMY ARMY from lighting him up easily so not a big deal.
I dont see how you could ever get a T1 charge with him unless 1) they ... kinda break something by making him fast as hell or 2) someone goes first and is stupid enough to let something sit right infront of ghazzy's face.... -- so realistically any way you can think of to send him across is fine, since dajump would be suicide that early

But he could be Tellyported, which is kinda fitting given his lore.

 Jidmah wrote:
Makari may be a way to cheat that limit though. If he has the statline of Da Red Gobbo, Ghaz could be 8+3 wounds.

Now THAT would be interesting.

Unrelated to Ghaz, seems FW is getting new rules finally.
Perhaps they'll revise the...what 80% of complete gak we can bring to be usable? lol. Lot of stuff is missing generic rules you'd expect (gargsquig cant fall back and fire/charge for example) or is MASSIVELY overpriced but rulewise is fine.

Given he's also THE bosses of bosses, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him some innate ability to deep strike either, which frankly most mega-armour units should be able to do at this point. Given he's so big, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him higher movement in spite of his mega armour, so if people wanted to keep his aura and buffs, he could still somewhat keep up if he runs. More than anything, I hope his twin big shootas get a unique profile as well (some AP would be nice), since they've always been baffingly garbage compared to all the other SC ranged weapons.

cody.d. wrote:It should be noted that Ghaz looks tiny in his new model. I mena check out his head to the left.

I will say on this one, I've just noticed this artwork of him in the current Ork codex



His head seems pretty tiny there too, pretty in line with the new model

An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
On the topic of Goff lock - I don't believe this for a second will be the case but my suggestion, both for power and fluff, would be that including Ghaz in your army lets you mix and match Klan units in a detachment. So your Meganobs can be DeffSkullz and camp on objectives while Goff boyz charge up field with Ghaz and Evil Sunz bikers zip around and Freeboota Flash Gitz form a firebase

Someone get this man a job at GW for gods sake.

I can't tell if you're praising or being sarcastic

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Unrelated to Ghaz, seems FW is getting new rules finally.
Perhaps they'll revise the...what 80% of complete gak we can bring to be usable? lol. Lot of stuff is missing generic rules you'd expect (gargsquig cant fall back and fire/charge for example) or is MASSIVELY overpriced but rulewise is fine.

Yeah the last CA update I can vaguely remember more or less neutered our Kill Tanks, and other LoW's. Not happy about how crappy Grot tanks and other guys like alternate weapon battlewagons and big trakks have been treated either. It'd be great to take them without feeling like you're being handicapped.