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Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Ellicott City, MD

I think the DA Codex will be mid mid/high tier and when the Lion is finally released it could go higher than that. I mean Azreal already provides just about everything Guilliman does minus the melee beat stick part so if the Lion is better than Azreal there is some significant room to grow.

The one longer term saving grace to the DA codex will be how flexible it is I believe. There is a lot in there to compete in a wide range of different meta's, which I think in the long term could be a significant boon. We shouldn't find ourselves at the mercy of a significant meta change that cripples us.

Also now that GW is rebalancing all of the time I wouldn't count on the relative codex powers remaining the same long term.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 12:57:44


Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




bobafett012 wrote:
 Galas wrote:


And about the last little knive, I have no problems disagreeing with people. Actually I prefer that, I learn more talking with people that has a different opinion than my own, that with people that shares my same opinion.


Then why attack people with different opinions than your own? I don't force my opinions on anyone, but I don't have any issues discussing and stating my position, and I fully concede my opinions can be wrong, and have been from time to time, but I don't attack people for giving theirs.


This is true of almost no one on dakka.

2500pts
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3000


 
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot




 vonjankmon wrote:
I think the DA Codex will be mid mid/high tier and when the Lion is finally released it could go higher than that. I mean Azreal already provides just about everything Guilliman does minus the melee beat stick part so if the Lion is better than Azreal there is some significant room to grow.

The one longer term saving grace to the DA codex will be how flexible it is I believe. There is a lot in there to compete in a wide range of different meta's, which I think in the long term could be a significant boon. We shouldn't find ourselves at the mercy of a significant meta change that cripples us.

Also now that GW is rebalancing all of the time I wouldn't count on the relative codex powers remaining the same long term.


I don't see how a reliance on one gimmick character as a placeholder for the arrival of another gimmick character shows flexibility or room to grow in the codes.

As for rebalancing....meh? That seems to hit hints that get a lot of vocal attention like conscript/commissars or malefic lords. As far as that sort of thing goes in the DA codex, the masses are quite silent.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





I think everyone clamoring for a Primarch equivalent forgets that every other faction won't get one.... Let's see Ghazghkull make every ork fearless on the board all game, or some Dark Eldar something or other enslave entire infantry units, or some suit within a suit for Tau.

or Wait for Titanicus or whatever it's called.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 16:11:50


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone






Mississippi

I will pass on a Primarch for my Tau, just give me the toolkit the murder them. It's deeply satisfying to dirt nap someone's Primarch.

   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





I know it's easy to forget about, but Orks do have the stompa as a LoW. Tau have the storm surge, Necrons the ascendant C'tan.

IMO the Lion is a much more fitting LoW for a DA army than a huge green/black/white tank, titan or gunship.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Vampire Thrall





UK

 Jidmah wrote:
I know it's easy to forget about, but Orks do have the stompa as a LoW. Tau have the storm surge, Necrons the ascendant C'tan.

IMO the Lion is a much more fitting LoW for a DA army than a huge green/black/white tank, titan or gunship.


Don't DA already have access to various Titanic class vehicles as Relics via Forge World plus the new Primaris superheavy.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol






 Mr Morden wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
I know it's easy to forget about, but Orks do have the stompa as a LoW. Tau have the storm surge, Necrons the ascendant C'tan.

IMO the Lion is a much more fitting LoW for a DA army than a huge green/black/white tank, titan or gunship.


Don't DA already have access to various Titanic class vehicles as Relics via Forge World plus the new Primaris superheavy.


Yeah I run a Spartan to delete a Leman Russ a turn. Very fun.

I scratch-built a Macharius Vulcan, Thunderbolt and Spartan! Have a peek at the build and my painting progress here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/513429.page

My all-plastic Praetorian build log: http://bit.ly/1K7gn7J

People who say "special snowflake" a lot tend to be unpleasant people.

 
   
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I think everyone clamoring for a Primarch equivalent forgets that every other faction won't get one.... Let's see Ghazghkull make every ork fearless on the board all game, or some Dark Eldar something or other enslave entire infantry units, or some suit within a suit for Tau.

or Wait for Titanicus or whatever it's called.

I think you're forgetting that several of those factions actually already have Primarch equivalents.

Eldar have the Phoenix Lords, the Tau have Shadowsun, Farsight, and potentially O'Kais(Puretide's Disciples basically being individuals who were kept in cryogenic stasis to be brought back when they were needed most), the Dark Eldar have/had Drazhar and Vect, Orks have Ghazghkull, Chaos is sitting on four Daemon Primarchs and at least two(Peturabo and one of the twins) that are "just" Primarchs still, Tyranids have the Swarmlord, Necrons have a few things of that nature, etc.

You can make the argument that the rules aren't up to snuff for all of them and that's fair, but let's not pretend that Guilliman is some huge beatstick that's decimating entire armies all by his lonesome shall we? A few tweaks to his rules(XIII Primarch only applying to friendly Ultramarines Bikes, Infantry, and Dreadnoughts for example) would go a long way towards fixing some of the bigger bits of nonsense.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Ellicott City, MD

Voss wrote:
 vonjankmon wrote:
I think the DA Codex will be mid mid/high tier and when the Lion is finally released it could go higher than that. I mean Azreal already provides just about everything Guilliman does minus the melee beat stick part so if the Lion is better than Azreal there is some significant room to grow.

The one longer term saving grace to the DA codex will be how flexible it is I believe. There is a lot in there to compete in a wide range of different meta's, which I think in the long term could be a significant boon. We shouldn't find ourselves at the mercy of a significant meta change that cripples us.

Also now that GW is rebalancing all of the time I wouldn't count on the relative codex powers remaining the same long term.


I don't see how a reliance on one gimmick character as a placeholder for the arrival of another gimmick character shows flexibility or room to grow in the codes.

As for rebalancing....meh? That seems to hit hints that get a lot of vocal attention like conscript/commissars or malefic lords. As far as that sort of thing goes in the DA codex, the masses are quite silent.


The DA have good units across the board, specialist bikers/speeders, specialist terminators, and unique flyers that can fill multiple roles. Now currently the Deathwing are very meh because at a high level currently in 8th small model count armies are just generally worse than spamming a bunch of cheap bodies, which is also an issue for Marines writ large and one of the big reasons they are generally middle tier right now. However GW has shown that they will change up how units and rules work so in another year small model count armies may be very viable or even the preferred overall meta, in which case Dark Angel players can just switch over and roll on. And I'm not sure I would call characters that buff you entire army "gimmicks", especially when they are as hard to kill as Guilliman is but even on that front Sammael is an excellent alternative to Azreal as commanders go, Belial is meh but they can't all be winners.

Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in es
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought




Vigo. Spain.

 Kanluwen wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I think everyone clamoring for a Primarch equivalent forgets that every other faction won't get one.... Let's see Ghazghkull make every ork fearless on the board all game, or some Dark Eldar something or other enslave entire infantry units, or some suit within a suit for Tau.

or Wait for Titanicus or whatever it's called.

I think you're forgetting that several of those factions actually already have Primarch equivalents.

Eldar have the Phoenix Lords, the Tau have Shadowsun, Farsight, and potentially O'Kais(Puretide's Disciples basically being individuals who were kept in cryogenic stasis to be brought back when they were needed most), the Dark Eldar have/had Drazhar and Vect, Orks have Ghazghkull, Chaos is sitting on four Daemon Primarchs and at least two(Peturabo and one of the twins) that are "just" Primarchs still, Tyranids have the Swarmlord, Necrons have a few things of that nature, etc.

You can make the argument that the rules aren't up to snuff for all of them and that's fair, but let's not pretend that Guilliman is some huge beatstick that's decimating entire armies all by his lonesome shall we? A few tweaks to his rules(XIII Primarch only applying to friendly Ultramarines Bikes, Infantry, and Dreadnoughts for example) would go a long way towards fixing some of the bigger bits of nonsense.


No, all Chaos Primarchs are Daemon Primarchs. Perturabo, Lorgar, and the alpha legion one are undivided chaos primarchs.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
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Central WI

Lorgar was changed to a demon prince, just one that worships and serves the pantheon.

Alpha legion primarchs are both possibly dead. Perturabo is the only remaining one that I don't think was changed into a demon prince.

IN ALAE MORTIS... On the wings of Death!! 
   
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Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores





Kansas, United States

 455_PWR wrote:
Lorgar was changed to a demon prince, just one that worships and serves the pantheon.

Alpha legion primarchs are both possibly dead. Perturabo is the only remaining one that I don't think was changed into a demon prince.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Perturabo

Perturabo is a Daemon Prince, at least according to that site.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I think everyone clamoring for a Primarch equivalent forgets that every other faction won't get one.... Let's see Ghazghkull make every ork fearless on the board all game, or some Dark Eldar something or other enslave entire infantry units, or some suit within a suit for Tau.

or Wait for Titanicus or whatever it's called.

I think you're forgetting that several of those factions actually already have Primarch equivalents.

Eldar have the Phoenix Lords, the Tau have Shadowsun, Farsight, and potentially O'Kais(Puretide's Disciples basically being individuals who were kept in cryogenic stasis to be brought back when they were needed most), the Dark Eldar have/had Drazhar and Vect, Orks have Ghazghkull, Chaos is sitting on four Daemon Primarchs and at least two(Peturabo and one of the twins) that are "just" Primarchs still, Tyranids have the Swarmlord, Necrons have a few things of that nature, etc.

You can make the argument that the rules aren't up to snuff for all of them and that's fair, but let's not pretend that Guilliman is some huge beatstick that's decimating entire armies all by his lonesome shall we? A few tweaks to his rules(XIII Primarch only applying to friendly Ultramarines Bikes, Infantry, and Dreadnoughts for example) would go a long way towards fixing some of the bigger bits of nonsense.


That's fairly disingenuous, honestly. Farsight and Shadowsun are nothing like primarchs. They're buffed up versions of basic characters, and only slightly at that. I'd say named chapter masters are a better comparison. Puretide would be the closest thing to a primarch Tau has. The name in the fluff that all others aspire to.

Now... If they came out with a Puretide AI riding around in a heavily modified commander suit, with all kinds of buffing abilities on par with Gulliman, that would be a better comparison. And something that I actually wouldn't mind.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 21:35:33


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I'm fairly sure Apharius never made the jump into daemonhood.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

That's fairly disingenuous, honestly. Farsight and Shadowsun are nothing like primarchs. They're buffed up versions of basic characters, and only slightly at that. I'd say named chapter masters are a better comparison. Puretide would be the closest thing to a primarch Tau has. The name in the fluff that all others aspire to.

Now... If they came out with a Puretide AI riding around in a heavily modified commander suit, with all kinds of buffing abilities on par with Gulliman, that would be a better comparison. And something that I actually wouldn't mind.

Primarchs were, putting it bluntly, nothing more than exemplars of aspects of the Emperor.
Puretide's Disciples are the closest comparison to Primarchs that the Tau have.
Just because you think they aren't does not change the situation.

Do you even know what Guilliman's buffing abilities are, by the by?
He gives Imperium units within 12" +1 to their Advance and Charge rolls, the ability to reroll hit rolls of 1 and failed Morale tests.
He gives Ultramarine units within 6" of him the ability to reroll any failed hit and wound rolls.
   
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Been Around the Block





I'm not at all interested in running a Primarch and I think hanging a codex off one superhard auto take character is an incredibly bad direction to go in. If people are just waiting for the Lion to come buff their blah, blah, blah collection of so-so units into a Guilleman greenline, then they have a very different take on the hobby to me. It's not like he'd add new flavour to the army, rule-wise, he'd just be a SuperAzzy.
And a big showy model, I guess.

Ghazghkull has nothing on Guilleman btw. He would need a considerable buff to be considered a Primarch level Ork. He's more on a level with Azrael. Good, verging on must take, but doesn't carry the other 90% of the army around on his back.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

I think it would be okay for each army to have a powerful "centerpiece" character that the army can build around (or not). Should they be so powerful as to be auto-includes? Of course not. But it would be cool to have one.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 12/01/17, including usual wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~10300 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1000 | Space Wolves: ~1500
Inquisition: ~200 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~Coming soon!
Tau Empire: ~5700 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~7700 | Death Guard: ~1900 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights: Renegade blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 10 | Current main painting project: Alpha Legion Noise Marines
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Norwich

 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm fairly sure Apharius never made the jump into daemonhood.


Thats because Dorn Killed him then covered up the fact he had attacked Terra.

   
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Been Around the Block





 ZergSmasher wrote:
I think it would be okay for each army to have a powerful "centerpiece" character that the army can build around (or not). Should they be so powerful as to be auto-includes? Of course not. But it would be cool to have one.


I don't really disagree with this tbh. I think I just dislike the level of focus on it. I feel it distracts from a more intricate and tacfical appreciation of things.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





 Formosa wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm fairly sure Apharius never made the jump into daemonhood.


Thats because Dorn Killed him then covered up the fact he had attacked Terra.


Alfy no, Perturabo yes.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
Deadawake1347 wrote:

That's fairly disingenuous, honestly. Farsight and Shadowsun are nothing like primarchs. They're buffed up versions of basic characters, and only slightly at that. I'd say named chapter masters are a better comparison. Puretide would be the closest thing to a primarch Tau has. The name in the fluff that all others aspire to.

Now... If they came out with a Puretide AI riding around in a heavily modified commander suit, with all kinds of buffing abilities on par with Gulliman, that would be a better comparison. And something that I actually wouldn't mind.

Primarchs were, putting it bluntly, nothing more than exemplars of aspects of the Emperor.
Puretide's Disciples are the closest comparison to Primarchs that the Tau have.
Just because you think they aren't does not change the situation.

Do you even know what Guilliman's buffing abilities are, by the by?
He gives Imperium units within 12" +1 to their Advance and Charge rolls, the ability to reroll hit rolls of 1 and failed Morale tests.
He gives Ultramarine units within 6" of him the ability to reroll any failed hit and wound rolls.


I'm fully aware of what he does. He's a ridiculous buffer. Rerolling failed hit and failed wounds is silly good.
And that would be saying Puretide would be the Tau equivalent of the Emperor... Which he's not. There isn't one.

But that's not really the discussion here, and I don't want to pull it any further off topic. If you'd like to discuss it further elsewhere, I'd be happy to.
   
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[MOD]
Sentient OverBear






Clearwater, FL

Let's keep this On Topic about the Dark Angels codex, folks.

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Chance favors only the prepared mind.                                                                                                       Rule #1
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Sweden

Has anyone else tried to download the digital version of the codex today. My purchase went through, but when I try to download it, all I get is "Server Error 404, file not found"!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/16 12:44:17


 
   
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Walking Dead Wraithlord






Looks like the Interrogator Chaplains got to it first...

 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Is anyone else having difficulty downloading the codex from the Warhammer digital site? I bought the epub, but I get a 404 whenever I try to download it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think I'd reported earlier that Ravenwing bikes fell by 6 points from the index but that was mistaken. They fell 7. Ravenwing bikes and Land speeders are the same price as the space marine codex.

Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
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Preacher of the Emperor




The nephilim or Dark Talon any good now? Still looking for something to pad out my adepticon list.

2500pts
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Longtime Dakkanaut






There are Sacred Standards in this codex! Kind of.

The Dark Angels Chapter Ancient is different from other codexes. In addition to the Astartes Banner rule, he also has this rule:
Sacred Standard: Dark Angels Infantry models that are destroyed within 6" of any friendly Dark Angels Chapter Ancients and subsequently muster one last sure of strength before succumbing to their wounds (see the Astartes Banner ability, above) always resolve their final attack as if they had a Ballistic Skill and Weapon Skill characteristic of 2+.
And he costs more too, 85 points compared to 72. But he's not stuck with a power sword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote:
The nephilim or Dark Talon any good now? Still looking for something to pad out my adepticon list.
Dark Talon got much cheaper. It's great. Lots of mortal Wounds, including during the Movement phase.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/17 07:24:30


Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




MilkmanAl wrote:
Is anyone else having difficulty downloading the codex from the Warhammer digital site? I bought the epub, but I get a 404 whenever I try to download it.


The same problem. Any ideas?
   
 
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