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I guess it's some kind of forge world-only version of 40k where you can only play as Space Marines? I'd hate to say that it sounds like it was invented to isolate the ludicrously wealthy from the normal people who can't afford to spend $3000 on a single army, but that really is my first impression.

Sorry if I've got the wrong idea. Is it any different from/better than 40k in terms of rules? I'd love to try it out with proxies but I get the feeling people who invest in all-forgeworld armies aren't gonna be too keen on playing a proxy army. Are people really paying $500 just for the basic rulebooks?

The rules are supposed to be slightly better. In addition, many people enjoy the Horus Heresy setting better, or that the models look better. Of course, some folks think it's fun just for the ability to field a Primarch.

I'm not into it because I primarily play xenos, and because the cost is insanely high.

Killsmith wrote:
I guess it's some kind of forge world-only version of 40k where you can only play as Space Marines? I'd hate to say that it sounds like it was invented to isolate the ludicrously wealthy from the normal people who can't afford to spend $3000 on a single army, but that really is my first impression.

Sorry if I've got the wrong idea. Is it any different from/better than 40k in terms of rules? I'd love to try it out with proxies but I get the feeling people who invest in all-forgeworld armies aren't gonna be too keen on playing a proxy army. Are people really paying $500 just for the basic rulebooks?

It's the Horus Heresy on the tabletop. I've not seen anyone in the 30k community have an issue with people using 40k bits in their armies, I'm sure no one would have issues with you proxying to try the list out. You don't need to spend $500 for the rule books, it uses the 40k rulebook and you can get the 30k army list book for £30. The big books are expensive but very much worth it imo, that's where you get the fluff and art.

In my opinion, the rules are vastly better written - they are not flawless, but they are actually playtested and there is simply nothing on the level of scatterbikes or wraithknights.

Killsmith wrote:
I guess it's some kind of forge world-only version of 40k where you can only play as Space Marines? I'd hate to say that it sounds like it was invented to isolate the ludicrously wealthy from the normal people who can't afford to spend $3000 on a single army, but that really is my first impression.

Sorry if I've got the wrong idea. Is it any different from/better than 40k in terms of rules? I'd love to try it out with proxies but I get the feeling people who invest in all-forgeworld armies aren't gonna be too keen on playing a proxy army. Are people really paying $500 just for the basic rulebooks?

As if GW armies are cheap, too.

I will offer the benefit of the doubt and assume you're asking honestly. No, you don't need $500 in rulebooks. No, you don't need to spend $3000 on an army. Also, people who invest in Forgeworld armies are usually quite keen on just being able to play with them, against proxies or not, because we have to deal with the constant anti-FW stigma that continues to linger after all these years, and that tends to limit our ability to play at times.

The army lists are more balanced because Forgeworld actually puts some thought into them, and they aren't designed by a committee where all the members were kept in separate rooms and thus unable to see what the others were doing (which is the GW way).

30K is essentially just a more balanced 40K. I've never really understood why people call it a Marine-fest considering there are two explicitly and fully fleshed out non-marine armies built into the game, with daemons also playing a role.

It's horus heresy, and frankly it was better when there were fewer details.

 Melissia wrote:
It's horus heresy, and frankly it was better when there were fewer details.

In your opinion.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Killsmith wrote:
I guess it's some kind of forge world-only version of 40k where you can only play as Space Marines? I'd hate to say that it sounds like it was invented to isolate the ludicrously wealthy from the normal people who can't afford to spend $3000 on a single army, but that really is my first impression.

Sorry if I've got the wrong idea. Is it any different from/better than 40k in terms of rules? I'd love to try it out with proxies but I get the feeling people who invest in all-forgeworld armies aren't gonna be too keen on playing a proxy army. Are people really paying $500 just for the basic rulebooks?

It's the Horus Heresy on the tabletop. I've not seen anyone in the 30k community have an issue with people using 40k bits in their armies, I'm sure no one would have issues with you proxying to try the list out. You don't need to spend $500 for the rule books, it uses the 40k rulebook and you can get the 30k army list book for £30. The big books are expensive but very much worth it imo, that's where you get the fluff and art.

The versions of the Land Raider, Terminator Squad and the Rhino sold by GW main were used during the Horus Heresy. If you run a Pride of the Legion list you can get an entry level army with some light conversion work for not that much money. The new plastic Mk. IV plastic kit will presumably lower the entry barrier even more.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It's horus heresy, and frankly it was better when there were fewer details.

In your opinion.

Yeah. FW has really made gold with 30k.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
30K is essentially just a more balanced 40K. I've never really understood why people call it a Marine-fest considering there are two explicitly and fully fleshed out non-marine armies built into the game, with daemons also playing a role.

40K has like a dozen factions and it's still a marine-fest.

So if I understand correctly, the game is still just 40K but with different army lists? And the appeal other than fluff and models is that the smaller number of factions means better playtesting and balance?

Do players of this tend to prefer larger or smaller games? I think 40K players have been putting too much stuff on the table recently.

Im thinking about taking a look at it because i heard that the Ad Mech is a blast to play. Also more killer robots, gotta love that.

Would Scions be viable in 30k? I am thinking all that deepstrike/AP3 might actually do good in 30k.

 Grimmor wrote:
Im thinking about taking a look at it because i heard that the Ad Mech is a blast to play. Also more killer robots, gotta love that.

I do think they look better than GW's Ad Mech line. I would probably never buy one just because I hate resin miniatures as a concept but FW's designs are a lot less boring.

Killsmith wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
30K is essentially just a more balanced 40K. I've never really understood why people call it a Marine-fest considering there are two explicitly and fully fleshed out non-marine armies built into the game, with daemons also playing a role.

40K has like a dozen factions and it's still a marine-fest.

So if I understand correctly, the game is still just 40K but with different army lists? And the appeal other than fluff and models is that the smaller number of factions means better playtesting and balance?

Do players of this tend to prefer larger or smaller games? I think 40K players have been putting too much stuff on the table recently.

It does better with bigger games. 2,500 points up really. But yeah basically. It uses the core 40k book still with different lists. The setting and models are the main appeal over 40k, but it is slightly better balanced through a combination of being mostly marines and the fact that FW actually put in a modicum of effort to balancing unlike GW proper.

Killsmith wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
30K is essentially just a more balanced 40K. I've never really understood why people call it a Marine-fest considering there are two explicitly and fully fleshed out non-marine armies built into the game, with daemons also playing a role.

40K has like a dozen factions and it's still a marine-fest.
So if I understand correctly, the game is still just 40K but with different army lists? And the appeal other than fluff and models is that the smaller number of factions means better playtesting and balance?
Do players of this tend to prefer larger or smaller games? I think 40K players have been putting too much stuff on the table recently.

For the most part, the rules are using 7th Edition 40k and the vast majority of mechanics, rules and methods are used. The only real differences are;
- Unbound does not exist
- Formations do not exist
- Your army is a Primary CAD and a single Allied Detachment, no more
- Your army gets 3HQ and 4 Elites as standard.
- Lords of War cannot be fielded below 2000pts, you only ever get 1, and it cannot take up more than 25% of your armies points

There are also many differences in how the actual game is played even if they are not mechanically different. Psykers are much rarer and far less important to the game. Units are typically very expensive to buy but very cheap to upgrade/expand, meaning that you tend to have much bigger mobs rather than playing MSU. Units also tend to be far more specialised. For example, a 30k Tactical Squad is a massive pile of Bolters, without access to special or heavy weapons, while a Support Squad might include 10 Plasma Gunners. This means 30k games are normally a bit bigger than 40k, with 2500pts being a good expectation for a 'normal' game.

Because the vast majority of players use a variety of Marines drawn from the same army list, balance is a lot tighter simply because everything is balanced around Power Armour. You'll generally have access to the exact same toys as your opponent, with the differences lying in global special rules, special characters and access to unique elite options. Forge World also makes use of Experimental Rules released well in advance of the official ones, so the more extreme abuses tend to get knocked down well beforehand.

Armies of 30k include:
Legiones Astartes- Space Marines!

Solar Auxilia- Elite human soldiers, essentially the 30k Cadia. Carapace armour, upgraded guns, massed armour deployment and huge numbers of defense lines.
Cults & Militia- Ludicrously versatile army that covers the full spectrum of the Imperial Army. Everything from conscript hordes to mutants to Dark Age survivors to Squats.
Mechanicus- Mars, robots and cyborgs. Currently has 3 army lists but the Taghmata Omnissiah is the standard.
Knights Questoris- An Imperial Knight army. Very different to the 40k version in that you buy 'titles' that any Knight can fill. For example, a HS Knight that gains Skyfire, with some pattterns of Knight being far more suited to the role.
Daemons- Identical to 40k.

Killsmith wrote:
I do think they look better than GW's Ad Mech line. I would probably never buy one just because I hate resin miniatures as a concept but FW's designs are a lot less boring.

I think im gonna get a bunch of Thallax and use them as "counts as" Kataphrons, mostly cuz they are (ironically) cheaper and they look cooler.

At OP, I , for one, have a Horus Heresy marine legion , and I haven't spent a dime on forgeworld so far...just using 40k Marine stuff, and since the double-headed acquil was only allowed to be worn by the Emperors Children during the HH era, I just don't use the bits with a double-headed acquila.

I'm sure some HH purists would scoff at my army because my power packs and jetpacks and weapons aren't technically correct, but I play HH with 3 other dudes locally, and none of them have much besides one or two units from forgeworld.

It a true that much of forgeworld line is overpriced, even compared to Games Wrkshop models, which are themselves overpriced enough. But with a little conversion work it's quite possible to build a HH army with no FW models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, they sell a couple smaller books with red covers that are basically the price of a 40k codex. They have one such book for the Crusade Army list all marine legions draw from, as well as a book of Legion-specific rules for the legions identified in HH Books I - III, and I've heard they are coming out with a similar red book for AdMech soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another P.S. I have played 40k for a while now, and only recently started 30k, but I have enough games under my belt now to feel that I can say that 30k is indeed a much more balanced game. Although they do not have rules for Xenos, I and every other 30k player I know would love to play against 40k Xenos players (and any 40k army for that matter). Maybe its just me, but I didn't build my army so I can raise my nose at 40k players, I built my army because I wanted to model it and play against people with it.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It's horus heresy, and frankly it was better when there were fewer details.

In your opinion.

No really, that's my opinion? Another mystery solved! Truly, you are the great sage, equal of heaven.

Are you actually going to bother to participate in the thread, or just keep crapping on it? No one is making you read it, if engaging the topic is going to prove such a burden to you.

 jasper76 wrote:

I'm sure some HH purists

If such a thing actually exists. Everyone I know who's into 30k is firmly into the 'have fun with the hobby camp,' and so whatever standard they apply to their own models, they're not going to turn their nose up at somebody else enjoying the hobby in a different way.

Mozzamanx wrote:

Killsmith wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
30K is essentially just a more balanced 40K. I've never really understood why people call it a Marine-fest considering there are two explicitly and fully fleshed out non-marine armies built into the game, with daemons also playing a role.

40K has like a dozen factions and it's still a marine-fest.
So if I understand correctly, the game is still just 40K but with different army lists? And the appeal other than fluff and models is that the smaller number of factions means better playtesting and balance?
Do players of this tend to prefer larger or smaller games? I think 40K players have been putting too much stuff on the table recently.

For the most part, the rules are using 7th Edition 40k and the vast majority of mechanics, rules and methods are used. The only real differences are;
- Unbound does not exist
- Formations do not exist
- Your army is a Primary CAD and a single Allied Detachment, no more
- Your army gets 3HQ and 4 Elites as standard.
- Lords of War cannot be fielded below 2000pts, you only ever get 1, and it cannot take up more than 25% of your armies points

There are also many differences in how the actual game is played even if they are not mechanically different. Psykers are much rarer and far less important to the game. Units are typically very expensive to buy but very cheap to upgrade/expand, meaning that you tend to have much bigger mobs rather than playing MSU. Units also tend to be far more specialised. For example, a 30k Tactical Squad is a massive pile of Bolters, without access to special or heavy weapons, while a Support Squad might include 10 Plasma Gunners. This means 30k games are normally a bit bigger than 40k, with 2500pts being a good expectation for a 'normal' game.

Because the vast majority of players use a variety of Marines drawn from the same army list, balance is a lot tighter simply because everything is balanced around Power Armour. You'll generally have access to the exact same toys as your opponent, with the differences lying in global special rules, special characters and access to unique elite options. Forge World also makes use of Experimental Rules released well in advance of the official ones, so the more extreme abuses tend to get knocked down well beforehand.

Armies of 30k include:
Legiones Astartes- Space Marines!

Spoiler:

Full rulesets released for Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Night Lords, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists and Ultramarines. Also have extremely simple make-do rules that can fill in as a temporary measure for Legions not yet released.

Solar Auxilia- Elite human soldiers, essentially the 30k Cadia. Carapace armour, upgraded guns, massed armour deployment and huge numbers of defense lines.
Cults & Militia- Ludicrously versatile army that covers the full spectrum of the Imperial Army. Everything from conscript hordes to mutants to Dark Age survivors to Squats.
Mechanicus- Mars, robots and cyborgs. Currently has 3 army lists but the Taghmata Omnissiah is the standard.
Knights Questoris- An Imperial Knight army. Very different to the 40k version in that you buy 'titles' that any Knight can fill. For example, a HS Knight that gains Skyfire, with some pattterns of Knight being far more suited to the role.
Daemons- Identical to 40k.

Looks interesting.
What would be the starting point to get into 30k ?

 Melissia wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It's horus heresy, and frankly it was better when there were fewer details.

In your opinion.

No really, that's my opinion? Another mystery solved! Truly, you are the great sage, equal of heaven.

Maybe if you hadn't presented it as if it were fact I wouldn't have felt the need to point it out.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Looks interesting.
What would be the starting point to get into 30k ?

These two books:



The Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List. This contains the basic units, army list, and rules for Legion Space Marines.

The Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes: Isstvan Campaign Legions. This book contains the Legion specific rules, special characters, and special units available to the 8 legions from books 1-3.

From another thread:

Here is a little run down (I has all the books!).

1. This book has all of the basic Horus Heresy units for Legion Space Marines: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Crusade-Army-List
2. This book has all of the Legion Specific Rules, Special Characters, and Units from books 1-3, the Istivaan Legions. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Isstvan-Campaign-Legions Included in the book are specific rules, units and special characters - including the Mighty Primarchs - for the Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists and Raven Guard.

Books 1-5 contain a lot of story, Legion specific fluff, and campaign information that you will not find in the above books. Scattered amongst these books are mechanicum units. They have not compiled them yet, which is annoying to Mechanicum players. I use the above books much mo

3. Book 1: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Book-One-Betrayal Has the same list from #1 above. Also detailed are the histories of the four Legions who took part: the Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Death Guard and an extensive campaign system.
4. Book 2: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Book-Two-Massacre Also detailed are the histories of the four legions that took part: The Iron Hands, Salamanders, Night Lords and Word Bearers
5. Book 3: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Book-Three-Extermination Also featured are the background and game rules for the four Legions covered in this book: the Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard and Iron Warriors, and a Mechanicum army list, plus new campaigns and vehicles.
6. Book 4: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Book-Four-Conquest The Knights and IG in 30k book. this book contains details of the Solar Auxilia of the Imperial Army and the histories of four Knight Households, as well as two entirely new army lists. The Questoris Knight Crusade Army list enables you to field a full Household of towering Knights armed with devastating weapons of mass destruction, whilst the Solar Auxilia Crusade Army list brings the elite of the Imperial Army to your battlefield.
7. Book 5: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/the-horus-heresy-book-five-tempest Ultramarines, Word Bearers Update, IG and Renegade IG List (more options, I think), more mechanicum stuff.

Hopefully after book 6, they will release another Summary book for the new legions + IG, and a summary book for the Mechanicum and Knights, just like they did after book 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Killsmith wrote:
I guess it's some kind of forge world-only version of 40k where you can only play as Space Marines? I'd hate to say that it sounds like it was invented to isolate the ludicrously wealthy from the normal people who can't afford to spend $3000 on a single army, but that really is my first impression.

Sorry if I've got the wrong idea. Is it any different from/better than 40k in terms of rules? I'd love to try it out with proxies but I get the feeling people who invest in all-forgeworld armies aren't gonna be too keen on playing a proxy army. Are people really paying $500 just for the basic rulebooks?

I've played against people that used their 40k models in a 30k game, but they were at least the correct legion (Salamanders and Ultramarines). That's not an issue for me.

I'd probably play someone's Unique Chapter (Non-original legion) if they wanted a 30k game, but don't expect to get to do that at a tournament.

As for $3000 on an army, when I did the math on my Imperial Fists army (1850 points), it was about $800. However, I also bought a bunch of Imperial Fists helmets and torsos, which easily added an additional $100-$200. No Regrets!

If you want to create a cheaper legion play either alpha legion or raven guard
Beakie helmets FTW! (Just get standard Tac Squads kits and a bunch of Beakie Heads)

Most of my two Legion armies are made with standard 40k marine parts. I have picked up a FW squad here and there along with a few vehicles. Overall though it doesn't cost much more than regular 40k. I currently have around 8000 points so far for 30k and find I use most of it far more than I use equivalent points of 40k armies. Also there is a large release in the future for 30k from GW and it looks like a really good deal. I am waiting for it to come out before I do an Alpha Legion army.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

I'm sure some HH purists

If such a thing actually exists. Everyone I know who's into 30k is firmly into the 'have fun with the hobby camp,' and so whatever standard they apply to their own models, they're not going to turn their nose up at somebody else enjoying the hobby in a different way.

You're probably right. I've not encountered any such "purists" amongst my gaming compadres, or even amongst posters on these boards. I was just speculating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Col. Dash wrote:
Also there is a large release in the future for 30k from GW and it looks like a really good deal. I am waiting for it to come out before I do an Alpha Legion army.

Has this been confirmed? I've heard this rumor for years now, and its yet to materialize.

Well we've seen plastic MkIV armour sprues but that's as far as its confirmed.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Well we've seen plastic MkIV armour sprues but that's as far as its confirmed.

If GW does do some 30k releases, I hope its more than just upgrade sprues...that would make collecting 30k from GW more expensive than collecting 30k from FW!

 jasper76 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Well we've seen plastic MkIV armour sprues but that's as far as its confirmed.

If GW does do some 30k releases, I hope its more than just upgrade sprues...that would make collecting 30k from GW more expensive than collecting 30k from FW!

The pictures that were circulating included several full MK-whatever marines, not just a Torso or helmet.

Arms, legs, backpacks, cod pieces, torso, helmets...

Not sure about guns. I gotta go check, now.

No context on these, though. They might be for a stand-alone game, or they are for a release of massive importance. We shall see!

See for yourself here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/637550.page

Yep, those sprues look pretty nice (and complete)