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2015/12/07 20:56:36
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
I’m sure glad GW is going to all plastic, so the ever-rising cost of white metal won’t impact the cost of their miniatures.
2015/12/08 00:45:49
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Exactly. I'm disappointed but at least something arrived. I've emailed them about the order. Hoping my luck holds.
I’m sure glad GW is going to all plastic, so the ever-rising cost of white metal won’t impact the cost of their miniatures.
2015/12/08 01:47:37
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Exactly. I'm disappointed but at least something arrived. I've emailed them about the order. Hoping my luck holds.
Just confirming, your stuff came directly from Prodos, and was not part of the load of stuff sent to that anonymous distributor most US backers (including myself) are waiting on, right?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/12/08 01:56:19
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Exactly. I'm disappointed but at least something arrived. I've emailed them about the order. Hoping my luck holds.
Just confirming, your stuff came directly from Prodos, and was not part of the load of stuff sent to that anonymous distributor most US backers (including myself) are waiting on, right?
That is correct. Like others I received a Nov 2nd shipping email with no tracking information. Just an itemized list of contents being shipped. Nothing ever arrived. Then on Dec 3rd I received a PM on Facebook messenger from Jarek. All it said was the shipping number and ups. It came directly from Poland. It was in the US, 10 miles from my house in 1 day. 4 days in total due to the weekend.
I was able to track the progress of the package through the UPS website.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 01:58:28
I’m sure glad GW is going to all plastic, so the ever-rising cost of white metal won’t impact the cost of their miniatures.
2015/12/08 01:57:29
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
It is my belief there is no container. And they have waited to ship both "Wave 1" and "Wave 2" together, as was my case. I am grateful to have received anything at all, but disappointed it wasn't all the approved items including freebies.
It's almost like a tease.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh. In addition I received a business card with a coupon code for 25% off to their store as well as a letter from Jarek. Nothing personal, but a letter of thanks. I can post if you're interested in its contents.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 02:02:47
I’m sure glad GW is going to all plastic, so the ever-rising cost of white metal won’t impact the cost of their miniatures.
2015/12/08 02:24:14
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Just thought I'd add a comment here, not being a backer I picked up a copy from an online store here in the uk, love the models although still sat in the box but here's the but after watching the way you guys have been treated there's no way on the earth that prodos will be getting any more future custom from me be it through themselves or an independent store.
2015/12/08 08:22:38
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Yep, to be fair, I'm totally burnt by this whole shambles and only blame Prodos for gross mismanagement of the entire process. Having said that, they produce beautiful miniatures and I have seen them in the flesh (or resin...) and would buy more if any were to take my fancy. I've also had the pleasure to speak with Jarek and he's just your average gamer who happened to have a dream but little to no business acumen - or was badly advised along the way by his business partners... I have no doubt that he once had a noble dream for AvP, but it's sure headed south since those days hasn't it...
BTW, I'm still waiting for my pledge plus add-ons...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 11:08:38
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2015/12/09 23:38:49
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Its like picking a wound, there's this temptation to check my pledge manager again. I know what I'll find, it'll be mysteriously open again, some detail will have changed, I'll fix it, close it, get a conformation including all the correct details...why do I bother, its becoming clear my order will not be shipping until everything is complete
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/10 09:56:58
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
I emailed Prodos - replied to my Pledge Manager receipt and copied Michal Pawlaczyk - and stated that my name and address where correct. Asked, politely, when I'd receive a shipping notification. Kept the email very polite as thought it would be a good way to start... before I launched into a tirade. But blow me, within minutes Michal responded and said that my pledge would be packed the next day and posted... I now have my 'pledge being partially sent' email in my inbox...
So, my advice to you all still waiting is to send your Pledge Manager receipt to them and ask for a status update on delivery... Can't hurt...
richred_uk wrote: Well I sent my letter before action 2 weeks ago to the 2 UK addresses I have, and it was signed for at the company registered address, but not at the address listed on their website. Today I have emailed it to Jarek and posted it in the closed AVP group - I will commence proceedings on the 14th December if I have had no satisfactory reply from them. If anyone really wants to read 2 pages of legal waflle, it's spoilered.
Spoiler:
Letter before small claims court claim
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
Prodos Games Ltd
Unit 1 Victoria Business Centre,
Neilston Street,
Leamington Spa,
Warwickshire, CV31 2AZ
23rd November 2015
Dear Sir/ Madam
Reference: Aliens vs Predator Kickstarter Non-Delivery
Due to Prodos Games Ltd’s failure to deliver the goods ordered via the Kickstarter project and subsequent extra purchases via the Pledge Manager, and the company’s repeated refusal to issue refunds, it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
In November 2013, Prodos Games Ltd (hereafter “Prodos” or “the Company”) ran a funding campaign via the Kickstarter website (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game) to raise funding to develop and produce a board game and range of miniatures set in the Aliens vs Predator IP universe. I (Richard Davies – also using the online name of richred_uk) pledged £155.00 to support this project, in return for which I would be sent various products to be produced by Prodos. Payment of this amount was debited to my credit card on 29th November 2013 via Amazon payments/ the Kickstarter platform, to be forwarded to Prodos less relevant fees. A further payment of £28.00 to pay for extra purchases of goods made via the “Pledge Manager” process was made by Paypal on 3rd May 2014. The total that I have spent is therefore £183.00.
Prodos have not delivered any part of the physical goods that I contracted to receive in exchange for these payments to me at the date of this letter. Prodos have repeatedly communicated via their corporate Facebook pages (https://www.facebook.com/groups/829340957162333/&https://www.facebook.com/Alien-vs-Predator-The-Miniatures-Game-1430433530510297/?ref=br_rs ) that they will not issue refunds to backers of the project.
The initial game was produced and sent to general retail release (available to purchase from Prodos directly and via various retail partners) at the end of June 2015. Further additional products have also been released to public retail as of the 5th November 2015 and a further selection of products has been announced for release on the 5th December 2015.
The company has made numerous statements that have proved to be false in terms of the delivery of the products, and have stated publicly that they used funds raised on the Aliens vs Predator project to deliver on outstanding goods from a previous project.
It is my position that the ongoing delay for Prodos to deliver my goods, the use of funds on an unrelated project and numerous false statements have put Prodos in breach of their contract with me.
From you I am claiming £183.00 plus any court fees, expenses or collection fees associated with this action. I do not intend to claim interest from the dates of my payments until now, but will apply for statutory interest from the date of judgement on any awards. I have calculated this sum as the total of the payments I have made to Prodos Games as detailed above.
Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:
E-mail communications receipting the payments made
Screenshots of Prodos’ “Pledge Manager” ordering system, detailing my purchases
Screenshots of online communications made by employees of Prodos Games Ltd
Screenshots of various retail websites listing the goods for retail
In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:
Records of my orders from Prodos Games for these goods
Records of any attempts to deliver these goods to me
Detailed Project records showing how monies from the funding campaign have been spent
A documented list of deliveries received Kickstarter backers by territory against a list of those outstanding in order to establish whether good faith efforts are being made by the company to fulfil outstanding obligations
Evidence that the outstanding obligations to Kickstarter backers are properly reflected in the company accounts
I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts. I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.
In closing, I would draw your attention to section II (4) of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.
I look forward to hearing from you by the 14th December 2015.
Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.
This letter has also been mailed to: Prodos Games Ltd, Warwick Business Centre, Hawkes Drive, Warwick, CV34 6LX – showing as the company’s registered address.
Yours faithfully,
Richard Davies
Just to update - I had this email exchange with Jarek this week I first emailed him the Letter Before action on the 7th Dec as well as posting it in the Facebook group:
9th Dec Me to Jarek "Dear Sir/ Madam
re-send to ensure that you have received these letters and a reminder that the deadline to reply is before the 14th December. If I have heard nothing from you by this point I will issue proceedings with no further notice. I would prefer to close this matter without going to court but I am perfectly prepared to do so if no response is forthcoming.
Yours respectfully
Richard Davies (copies of the letters attached again)"
9th Dec - Jarek to me "Hi there, thanks for your mail.
In regards to fulfilling KS, as per our weekly updates, we are aiming to have all shipped our by end of Jan.
We are shipping parcels in random order.
Thanks"
9th Dec Me to Jarek "Dear Jarek
I'm sorry to say, but this is not an acceptable reply to prevent me from issuing proceedings - I am afraid that I no longer believe your assertions of a date that shipments will be completed by due to the numerous times that similar assertions have proven to be false. With 'Wave 3' items still to be approved, and a 2 week Christmas shut down, I do not believe that there is any chance that all remaining items will be with all backers by the end of January.
Unless there is some form of binding agreement as to a delivery date with cast iron guarantees should it be breached, or a refund in full, then I will be taking things to the courts as I believe that Prodos is already in breach of contract.
I do thank you for the reply, and would ask you to think again about how to progress.
Yours sincerely
Richard Davies "
Since then, radio silence. I guess I will be spending the weekend filling out some claims forms and being in a position to submit them on Monday.
BrookM wrote: Prodos has been aggressively trying to directly contact several FLGS in the Netherlands for some time now getting them to sell AVP, I do wonder why.
Maybe they have too many starter set copies occupying space in the warehouse? If only there was something (they're obligated) to do about it...
2015/12/13 19:23:33
Subject: Re:AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Further update - on Friday (I'm sure coincidentally ), just after posting in the AvP group that my Letter before Action didn't get me any faster delivery, I received a shipping notification for the following items:
"Free items:
A Royal Guard x1 1, KS P Berserker 1, AVP Game (Box) 1,
Addons:
Predator ship (Extra tiles) 1, P Predator Hellhounds x2 1, A Queen x1 1, A Predalien x1 1, Weyland-Yutani Commandos 2, M Power Loader x1 1,"
This should leave me outstanding:
Facehuggers x7( 1 )
Picked 100k stretch item/s:
A Warrior x5
Picked 155k stretch item/s:
M Sentry guns x2
Picked 310k stretch item/s:
A Eggs (Obj. Marker) x4
M Colonial Marines x5 (Add-on)( 1 )
P Cloaked Berserker x1( 1 )
P Cloaked Pred x1 (Spear)( 1 )
M Sergeant x1( 1 )
I will be treating this as enough to put my legal steps on hold - bearing in mind shipping delays at this time of year, I'm happy to wait until the New Year before I would start it up again if nothing arrives. If I do not see this parcel/ tracking number proof it was lost by then, it will start up again - if they mess around further with the outstanding items I will re-consider whether I'd run up the court fees for that value of stuff, but I'm happy enough that the legal threats do seem to have got some action out of Prodos (I mean I'm happy that I just happened to be in this week's lucky 127 people).
Funnily enough I'm not in that lucky 127, I'm guessing it's because my pledge manager hasn't been closed or I haven't filled it in correctly, and not because shipping more than one wave to me is expensive...
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2015/12/14 09:28:29
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Apologies for having to set-up a new account for this but there was a rather... heated, argument that occured on the AVP-Wargamer group yesterday.
I'm of the opinion that if Prodos cannot/will not give us any information at this point then it perhaps Fox will, to that end I have sent an email and given others the details to do so.
This basically resulted in Jarek threatening to give my personal details out to backers who had not received their product if Fox took the licence from Prodos.
I've since been banned from that group and the threads have been deleted (and much of it has been reported to Facebook if I'm honest) but It has come to my attention that many people there have the opinion that I have been 'harrassing' Jarek and insulting him for a long time (and bad-mouthing me for doing so when I am unable to respond) Therefore I thought it only fair I post up the entirety of the PM conversation between us so people can make up their own minds.
Andy Hawkes
Is there any particular reason why all of the updates and comments have been deleted from the official AvP group?
And why are Prodos wasting time and resources on freebies for retailers that should be directed towards fulfilling previous obligations towards AvP backers?
I do apologise for messaging you direct but you do not seem to want to reply otherwise to these concerns
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:19pm
Jarek Ever
I own you no explanation
Non of your damn business
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:21pm
Andy Hawkes
Seeing as you have my money for the kickstarter I'd dispute that somewhat
Just stop lying to people Jarek. Doesn't matter how bad the truth of the situation is it can't be worse than all the different stories we keep getting on a week by week basis
I've asked politely for comments on many occasions - your response is always to go straight on the defensive in an aggressive manner.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:25pm
Jarek Ever
You are not polite at all and questioning stuff like this is on of order ... Maybe question that we have a toilet paper as well
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:28pm
Andy Hawkes
Everything i've stated has been in a professional and business like manner, the same could not be said of yourself unfortunately.
And you're comparing wildly different things. Necessities are just that, and yes, toilet roll is one of those.
Spending resources on freebies when claiming to us all the company is cash-strapped and can't afford shipping however is completely different.
Also you've not said anything on the subject of the deleted posts.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:29pm
Jarek Ever
Can you please stop harassing me ?
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:30pm
Andy Hawkes
I'm asking questions Jarek, on social media. Under no definition of harassment would you find this is covered by that.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:30pm
Jarek Ever
You are harrying me now by sending PM leave me alone
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:32pm
Andy Hawkes
Once again, that isn't harassment.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/stalking_and_harassment/#a02a I'm merely requesting information on a public forum. All you need to do is provide some kind of answer
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:34pm
Jarek Ever
No I don't have to, you may asks , but you have me statements about me , personally me Jarolie?? That is harassing , delete this or I'll take actions
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:35pm
Andy Hawkes
I'm sorry. Is that a threat Jarek?
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:36pm
Jarek Ever
Am I calling you a lier ? You have made a public statement , that is harassing under the definition you just sent me , as I said this is gone or I'll report it
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:38pm
Andy Hawkes
I'll offer a counter proposal. Renew the updates on the group (the comments dont need to be present). Give an official response explaining what is going on and I will remove any comments you want.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:41pm
Jarek Ever
What? You have called me a lier, you are harassing me and now you demand something for me , are you serious ? Stop sending me pm and delete this now.
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:42pm
Andy Hawkes
A proposal, not a demand. They are different things. I'll not delete anything I'm afraid.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/14 09:32:06
2015/12/14 09:55:28
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
You and me both Morikun. If he conducts all business communications the way he speaks to us it's no wonder they have had problems with Fox approving things.
2015/12/14 12:36:42
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
Personnally I was very lucky to get my boxes and other stuffs by a friend of mine who gone to Crisis (Belgium)...
But when I see that after too much time, many backers don't get even their boxes, it sucks a lot !!
Jarek forgot my predalien and pred tiles... But I was notified that all were delivered... After several MP to michal/jarek... Nothing but a big silence... Really marvellous indeed !
I fear in response to the post above that BOLS will report tomorrow a rumor that Prodos had to stop work on fulfilling their AVP kickstarter obligations due to an ongoing lack of of toilet paper.
2015/12/14 14:23:01
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
warboss wrote: I fear in response to the post above that BOLS will report tomorrow a rumor that Prodos had to stop work on fulfilling their AVP kickstarter obligations due to an ongoing lack of of toilet paper.
Well, that would be gakky of them!
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/12/14 19:11:47
Subject: AvP: The Hunt Begins by Prodos Games 16/10/15 PM re-opened
And can we get explanations about Jarek has stopped talking to us on Dakka Dakka ? XD
Serviteur,
Morikun
Hi there, to be hones I had no time.
As per Andy's post the full story is that he called me openly a lair, that was spotted by my son, I asked him to stop harass me as it was clearly affecting my family now.
Legion: Dark Angels 
), just after posting in the AvP group that my Letter before Action didn't get me any faster delivery, I received a shipping notification for the following items:
