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Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

I kinda get what you're saying, although the pause has given me some time to work on my terrain and other little related projects. Ideally we'd have a new titan or something similarly impactful arriving soon. But I understand that they may not have greenlit work on additional Titans until they got through the launch and were able to assess demand. And ultimately AT is part of the SG group, so it's not going to have a monthly release cycle like the core games. I'll just continue to be patient and wait for the greatest Legio (Audax) to be covered and for more scout Titans to arrive.

James' comment about design vs. writing is on point. I love the ruleset, but the overly narrative rulebook can be frustrating at times. And I don't usually mind a conversational rulebook.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/07 15:30:56


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Gorgon, you just love your Ember Wolves! Speaking of which, have we seen them in the project thread? I'll have to flick through it again...

Yeah, that is the positive of a long delay, in that one can catch up on painting and actually save up money for when it does happen. There is the Dice to look forward to, afterall!

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 gorgon wrote:
I kinda get what you're saying, although the pause has given me some time to work on my terrain and other little related projects. Ideally we'd have a new titan or something similarly impactful arriving soon. But I understand that they may not have greenlit work on additional Titans until they got through the launch and were able to assess demand. And ultimately AT is part of the SG group, so it's not going to have a monthly release cycle like the core games. I'll just continue to be patient and wait for the greatest Legio (Audax) to be covered and for more scout Titans to arrive.

James' comment about design vs. writing is on point. I love the ruleset, but the overly narrative rulebook can be frustrating at times. And I don't usually mind a conversational rulebook.


Yeah that's likely the factor. They didn't likely get green light for that many new kits to begin with before even having any idea does it sell. Imagine them sitting now with lots of mid-design stuff that costs already money and game that flopped? With lead times being what they are anything green lit after game launch would be coming more likely end of year earliest. Especially plastic.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
3225 pts
5150 pts
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Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

SamusDrake wrote:
Gorgon, you just love your Ember Wolves! Speaking of which, have we seen them in the project thread? I'll have to flick through it again...

Yeah, that is the positive of a long delay, in that one can catch up on painting and actually save up money for when it does happen. There is the Dice to look forward to, afterall!


EMBER WOLVES!

I've had my mind set on Audax since AT was announced. Loved those guys after reading Betrayer. And I also accepted that it'd likely mean playing the game on hard mode, possibly even after I got Legio rules. I was a little anxious for the Lupercal maniple, but since then I've been in a shockingly un-Khornate state of patience. Of course, I'm still hoping that the studio's recent and revealing comment about Audax being limited to SCOUT titans and not just Warhounds means that plans are underway for both Audax and the Rapier Titan.

Regarding pics, I completed six Warhounds a few months back. I just keep forgetting to take some nice pics of them. I'll try to do that soon. I'll also post some terrain pics when they're ready.

Oh...about dice, after exactly one game I purchased a block of Chessex Scarab Scarlet 16mm dice, which look pretty similar to the new Traitor dice. I use those for regular dice rolls and the gold special dice from the GME set for those rolls.

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 gorgon wrote:
Of course, I'm still hoping that the studio's recent and revealing comment about Audax being limited to SCOUT titans and not just Warhounds means that plans are underway for both Audax and the Rapier Titan.


Good thing you bring that up as I seem to recall that was mentioned in the DOM video preview. Was confused when I couldn't find it in the actual book.

That might be a big hint as to the next expansion if Audax is involved. Okay, lets have a look( Brings forth the holy rulebook from the shelf )...something about Isstvan III? A quick google and they have a character called "Ember Queen" which took part in the Shadow Crusade...hmmm.

An Ursus Claw resin kit would be an ideal "sooner-rather-than-later" product as lets face it - who doesn't have at least two warpups in their collection? They came with all their standard weapons out of the box and when they finally release the Reaver carapace weapons, the Hound fans will want something in resin too. A pdf download or White Dwarf template would solve the missing weapon card problem.

Maybe something this side of Christmas, if we're lucky...

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot




Oakland, CA

Concerning some of the gaps in the release schedule, I suspect that much like the initial release, they've decided to do more in plastic in the future.

...which has a far greater lead time than resin.

As odd as it may sound, the popularity of the game could be causing the delay.
   
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Dakka Veteran




Titans are all big kit. So of course it's gonna be slow. They had to make Titan and Knight, terrain at the same time to fill in the release, basically double, tripple the production rate compare to other specialist games.

We have Reaver weapon frame, Knight Lancer, new terrain and now Knight upgrade, and Acastus. That's well more than both Blood Bowl and Necromunda combined release in 2019 so far.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/08 05:33:36


 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch




Hewitt's tweet thread makes me even more convinced that they need to release a minimum-size Venator Maniple starter - one Reaver, two Warhounds, and a rulebook. Without a discount, that checks in at less than $200US.

It's the least expensive all-titan maniple so that players can get a feel for the game while commanding multiple titans (which is the point of the game), and also become familiar with the maniple rules right when they first start playing. And the half-strength Venator is a good starting point because you have two options for expanding your collection. You can go inexpensive and finish filling out the Venator Maniple with two more Warhounds. Or you can put down the cash for a brand new Warlord to trade up to a mid-strength Axiom Maniple, adding the second Reaver to fill it out either at the same time, or a little later.
   
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Real starter set need to use the whole ruleset, not just the book. The downsize is people won't want to buy multiple starter set like this because they will get multiple rule books/ rule set which might not be very useful. And the box would be quite big I reckon.

1 Reaver with all weapons and 2 warhound at about 20-30US$ discount would be good enough.

I also hope to see a full weapon Reaver and Warlord reapack..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/08 18:20:04


 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch




Chopstick wrote:
Real starter set need to use the whole ruleset, not just the book. The downsize is people won't want to buy multiple starter set like this because they will get multiple rule books/ rule set which might not be very useful. And the box would be quite big I reckon.

1 Reaver with all weapons and 2 warhound at about 20-30US$ discount would be good enough.


By "rulebook", I meant the entire box. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

But I think the rules box should be bundled with such a set-up. Without the rules - and the associated price increase - a discounted box merely becomes a way for people to acquire the Reaver and Warhound more cheaply.
   
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Dakka Veteran




Being a penny-pincher at heart I would still recommend the Titan Battlegroup boxset as a starter set.

It might still seem expensive from a beginners perspective, but you do get the full experience of the game as you can try out each of the standard titan types. And lets face it, you do get the hounds for free, more than covering the cost of a copy of the ruleset. If one can make their own scenery then they can even host a small 2-player game( although the advantage does go to the player with the warlord ).

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Watches History Channel




 gorgon wrote:
I kinda get what you're saying, although the pause has given me some time to work on my terrain and other little related projects. Ideally we'd have a new titan or something similarly impactful arriving soon. But I understand that they may not have greenlit work on additional Titans until they got through the launch and were able to assess demand. And ultimately AT is part of the SG group, so it's not going to have a monthly release cycle like the core games. I'll just continue to be patient and wait for the greatest Legio (Audax) to be covered and for more scout Titans to arrive.


I'm grateful for the slow release schedule, but that's partly because I'm in Australia, so I either need a) time to save up cash and brave the crazy GW prices or b) wait for more reasonably priced Titans to arrive on the slow boat.

(Actually, the GW prices even in Oz aren't too bad when you realise that one model can make up 250-400 pts of your army. It's really only the Warlord's local price point that I find redonkulous.)

 gorgon wrote:
James' comment about design vs. writing is on point. I love the ruleset, but the overly narrative rulebook can be frustrating at times. And I don't usually mind a conversational rulebook.


This has always been the style of GW (not sure about FW) rulebooks, though, hasn't it? They're written to be read from start to finish by a player who knows nothing about the game. And they're always stopping to say 'this represents such-and-such', or 'the intent of this rule is to prevent players from abusing blah-de-blah'. Which makes them infuriating when you're trying to look something up in the middle of a game. (I see James ran into this problem with Silver Tower.)

Fantasy Flight Games's rulebooks have the opposite problem--they're written in a no-nonsense, bullet-pointed, 'just the roolz' way that makes them pretty decent for looking things up... but they rarely pause to explain the intent of a rule, leaving you to scratch your head and figure it out from context.

I agree 100% with James that the Reaver should have been released first, with the Warlord later. I've sort of experienced the 'big battleship upgrade' effect myself. I've played most of my games with only Reavers and Warhounds, because I couldn't afford a WL. Just recently I had my first game versus a Warlord and it scared the heck of of me with its size and power. I doubt I'd have had the same experience if I'd started with Warlords as the standard.

For me (resident AT fluff whinger), the choice quote from James's Twitter feed is this:

James Hewitt wrote:
I did the rules (and most of the colour text boxouts), team manager Andy [Hoare] did the background section at the front and oversaw the project, and sculpting maestro Chris debigulated all the titans and designed the terrain kit and game components.


That confirms a long-standing suspicion I've had that Andy H wrote the fluff sections. I'm... uh... not really a fan of his writing style, and have felt that way since the stuff he did for Lustria back in 6th ed WFB--although back then it was hard to tell what was Andy and what was Mat Ward.

From a technical standpoint, my beef is that Andy tends to use endless run-on sentences full of commas. This is more of a problem than it might seem. Seriously, take a look at any random section of the fluff bits in the AT books. (It's true of the Titan descriptions on the colour-scheme pages too, which may or may not be by Andy, so it's not necessarily a problem limited to him.) Practically every sentence goes: 'blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah.' Over and over again. It deadens the writing and makes it dull to read.

A mix of short and long sentences, though? That holds your attention. Many of the older-school GW writers, such as Andy C, Jervis, Rick and so on either knew this instinctively or had it drummed into them (possibly by Bill King). Someone get this man a bag of full stops!

There are other issues, like the general tone of the fluff and the lack of character hooks or human interest so we care about the giant robobot fights, but I've muttered about those plenty of times before. Apparently I have to go read Black Library books to get that sort of thing. *shudder*
   
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Novice Knight Errant Pilot




Oakland, CA

Though strictly not AT18 related, Black Library is releasing On Wings of Blood in August, so it's a safe bet that we'll see Aeronautica Imperialis in roughly the same timeframe.
   
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 schoon wrote:
Though strictly not AT18 related, Black Library is releasing On Wings of Blood in August, so it's a safe bet that we'll see Aeronautica Imperialis in roughly the same timeframe.


Seems reasonable to follow up Titanicus a year on. Maybe August 2020 we'll get a good ol'fashioned tank game!

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Fresh-Faced New User





I have read some time ago that they plan to release Titanicus Books alá the Blackbooks. Has anyone more info on that or was that a fluke? I was a bit dissapointed to look at Titandeath after hearing this and its just a small book with like 8 legions and miniscule lore for the biggest Titan battle in history. I really want freaking big books for this. Especially if we get Imperator and Warmongers some time in the future and we'll get big fat artwork of them

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/11 22:13:29


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I think something was mentioned, but I'd say thats further down the road. Probably when the game has more products in its range...

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Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

It was mentioned, but the fact that we’ve had 2 books not in that format (three if you include the rulebook) makes me think they probably changed their minds on that.
   
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They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.
   
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Omadon's Realm

Zenithfleet wrote:

That confirms a long-standing suspicion I've had that Andy H wrote the fluff sections. I'm... uh... not really a fan of his writing style, and have felt that way since the stuff he did for Lustria back in 6th ed WFB--although back then it was hard to tell what was Andy and what was Mat Ward.

From a technical standpoint, my beef is that Andy tends to use endless run-on sentences full of commas. This is more of a problem than it might seem. Seriously, take a look at any random section of the fluff bits in the AT books. (It's true of the Titan descriptions on the colour-scheme pages too, which may or may not be by Andy, so it's not necessarily a problem limited to him.) Practically every sentence goes: 'blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah.' Over and over again. It deadens the writing and makes it dull to read.

A mix of short and long sentences, though? That holds your attention. Many of the older-school GW writers, such as Andy C, Jervis, Rick and so on either knew this instinctively or had it drummed into them (possibly by Bill King). Someone get this man a bag of full stops!


It's very in keeping with the Forge World fluff writing for both Horus Heresy and Imperial Armour, IA 13 was all Andy Hoare's work and the thing is a monument to how IA books should be written. As to the run on sentence, the king of that was Alan Bligh, go ahead and criticize him for it, you'll have at least a hundred 30k players willing to pay airfare to hunt you down and do unpleasant things to you about it... AT was written to be a comfortable cousin to, and verymuch in the style of, Horus Heresy.

And criticizing someone's writing whilst heaping praise on JJ... ye gods. That guy is a lovely chap, but terrible meandering waffler when it comes to holding a paragraph together.



 
   
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Imperial Armor have the vehicle classification with stat like speed and ammunition count, those were good. Too bad they don't do that anymore. Also some of the vehicle in Imperial Armor get a cop-out "top secret" with no stat. That was lazy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/12 15:04:24


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Pfft, I've read Iain M Banks' novels. Run-on sentences in Forge World books hold no fear. There's a page in The Algebraist that is fully taken up by only two sentences.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote:
Imperial Armor have the vehicle classification with stat like speed and ammunition count, those were good. Too bad they don't do that anymore. Also some of the vehicle in Imperial Armor get a cop-out "top secret" with no stat. That was lazy.


Not really - it was alien vehicles, daemon engines and the like that had data missing or redacted. After all, that's precisely the things that Imperial agents won't know, or the Inquisition doesn't want you to know.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/12 15:09:09


 
   
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Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.


If you’re boiling it down to that level, then no; the HH books are background, then campaign/scenarios, then army lists

I think they were mentioned at one point to be like the HH black books - big format, faux leather bound, metal corners etc. Of course, that would have come with the £80 price tag, I assume that was deemed not viable.
   
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 ImAGeek wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.


If you’re boiling it down to that level, then no; the HH books are background, then campaign/scenarios, then army lists

I think they were mentioned at one point to be like the HH black books - big format, faux leather bound, metal corners etc. Of course, that would have come with the £80 price tag, I assume that was deemed not viable.


Specialist Games only said the books would be stylistically similar to the black books not that they would be black books. This is another case of the community hearing what we wanted to hear rather than what Andy Hoare was actually saying. Having said that; Mr Hoare should know, by now, to be more precise about how he says things to avoid this kind of confusion.
   
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Deadshot Weapon Moderati





frankr wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.


If you’re boiling it down to that level, then no; the HH books are background, then campaign/scenarios, then army lists

I think they were mentioned at one point to be like the HH black books - big format, faux leather bound, metal corners etc. Of course, that would have come with the £80 price tag, I assume that was deemed not viable.


Specialist Games only said the books would be stylistically similar to the black books not that they would be black books. This is another case of the community hearing what we wanted to hear rather than what Andy Hoare was actually saying. Having said that; Mr Hoare should know, by now, to be more precise about how he says things to avoid this kind of confusion.


So instead of "Stylistically similar to black books" he should have said "Stylistically similar to black books, but not exactly the same as black books, just kind of akin to black books". If so I can imagine that this sort of precision over every utterance would soon become tedious.
   
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Novice Knight Errant Pilot




Oakland, CA

My guess would that after about 4-6 expansion books, we'll see a second edition of the main rules.

More of a consolidation as opposed to a rewrite.

But I'd guess that would be exactly the same format as we have today.
   
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Watches History Channel




 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Zenithfleet wrote:

That confirms a long-standing suspicion I've had that Andy H wrote the fluff sections. I'm... uh... not really a fan of his writing style, and have felt that way since the stuff he did for Lustria back in 6th ed WFB--although back then it was hard to tell what was Andy and what was Mat Ward.

From a technical standpoint, my beef is that Andy tends to use endless run-on sentences full of commas. This is more of a problem than it might seem. Seriously, take a look at any random section of the fluff bits in the AT books. (It's true of the Titan descriptions on the colour-scheme pages too, which may or may not be by Andy, so it's not necessarily a problem limited to him.) Practically every sentence goes: 'blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah.' Over and over again. It deadens the writing and makes it dull to read.

A mix of short and long sentences, though? That holds your attention. Many of the older-school GW writers, such as Andy C, Jervis, Rick and so on either knew this instinctively or had it drummed into them (possibly by Bill King). Someone get this man a bag of full stops!


It's very in keeping with the Forge World fluff writing for both Horus Heresy and Imperial Armour, IA 13 was all Andy Hoare's work and the thing is a monument to how IA books should be written. As to the run on sentence, the king of that was Alan Bligh, go ahead and criticize him for it, you'll have at least a hundred 30k players willing to pay airfare to hunt you down and do unpleasant things to you about it... AT was written to be a comfortable cousin to, and verymuch in the style of, Horus Heresy.

And criticizing someone's writing whilst heaping praise on JJ... ye gods. That guy is a lovely chap, but terrible meandering waffler when it comes to holding a paragraph together.


*shrug* Style comes down to personal preference. You like it, I don't. There's only one way to settle this: D10 roll-off at twenty paces.

I'm not criticising the content, mind you. Well, I do criticise the lack of content in the AT books, especially since FW apparently has oodles of Legion fluff all worked out and is keeping tight-lipped about it for some reason... but the actual historical events and so on seem fine, and I quite like the overall sweep of Beta-Garmon stuff in Titandeath. It's just the style that drives me bonkers. I could go into more detail, but I'm off-topic enough as it is.

And when I praise Andy C, Jervis et al, I'm only speaking about finished-product fluff in the older army books and codexes, which by nature would get a more thorough polishing (if not proofreading). Not whatever they might wibble on about in a magazine article, which I suspect you might be thinking of.

It's not nostalgia talking, though. I only read the 5th ed WFB army books a couple of years ago, and they just crackle with energy and pace. In Jervis's case I mainly have the old WFB Undead book in mind. The material itself might be all cartoony and "I shall have my evil revenge," but jeez it's a good read. That whole Sylvania bit...

But I concede that they probably had behind-the-scenes assistance. I hear Bill King gave Andy C a few pointers on writing for the original Skaven army book background, for instance. No doubt he did the same for Jervis in the Undead book. Rick P I think tended to go a bit... eccentric with the humorous digressions when he cut loose, and probably needed a good editor to rein him in. And so on. So I take no issue with you taking issue with Jervis.

Anyway, since the only FW fluff I've read (at least I think it was FW) was for that resin BFG Tau fleet they did, it's unfair of me to compare AT to regular GW stuff from the good old days of yore. For all I know, AT writing may be head and shoulders and carapace above regular GW fluff these days. The latter was getting pretty dire when I stopped reading it and that was ages ago.

Speaking of Battlefleet Gothic... that's my usual point of comparison with Titanicus. Again, unfair since that was core GW back in the Silver Age, but it's what I know. BFG takes what I assume to be a similar 'Jane's Guide to the Emperor's Navy' approach, with that calm military-history feel to its ship descriptions... but in my opinion it's much more evocative and enjoyable to read than the AT stuff I've seen so far. Like the one about the cruiser that was built in orbit above a feral world over a decade. Or the puny transport ship that saved a convoy by suicidally taking on a Chaos cruiser all by itself.

More like that for Titanicus, please. Fingers crossed we'll get some of it with the 'Titans of Legend' when they come out. (Hey look, I'm back on topic.)

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Pfft, I've read Iain M Banks' novels. Run-on sentences in Forge World books hold no fear. There's a page in The Algebraist that is fully taken up by only two sentences.


Yep, but Iain M Banks is, you know, a writer. He punctuates precisely when he means to.* Two sentences per page? That's writing, that is.

I remember how stunned I was when I learned a while ago that 80s GW nearly had Tanith Lee writing for them. Everyone was going on about how Terry Pratchett was asked to slum for them and how amazing it would have been... but Tanith frickin' Lee! Can you imagine the Slaanesh we would have had?

*At least when he has a good editor.
   
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Argh triple post... think I hit quote instead of edit

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 10:22:48


 
   
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Sorry everyone, triple posted somehow

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 10:22:20


 
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Zenithfleet wrote:

I remember how stunned I was when I learned a while ago that 80s GW nearly had Tanith Lee writing for them. Everyone was going on about how Terry Pratchett was asked to slum for them and how amazing it would have been... but Tanith frickin' Lee! Can you imagine the Slaanesh we would have had?


The first wave of books, from the early 1990s, were all written by established authors; I think Bill King was the newbie in that group. Kim Newman, Brian Stableford, Charles Stross (although again, early in his career, I think), Storm Constantine, Ian Watson, Barrington J. Bayley, etc.

I know Bill King stopped writing for Black Library as they didn't pay well enough; that may be why BL used mostly newer authors instead.
   
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How to paint House Malinax Knights....



Wraithbone, then Aggaros Dunes.

Drybrush highlight if you fancy. Looks like my Knights are getting painted this weekend!

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