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Yes I know, I started to update the old thread but I got a horrible "make a new thread" warning so...

I just got this in email:

Project Update #117: Dust: Operation Babylon by Dust Studio‏

A complete agreement has been reached

Dear backers,

Christmas is nearly upon us and it is the season to share good tidings.

We are very pleased to be able to tell you that we have reached complete agreement on all points between our two companies.

The Kickstarter product will be produced and shipped to you fully (yes including all free incentives from both parties). The final wave of items will be started straight away and as soon as they are finished we will ship them out to you. This is a complex order so it will take 120 days to produce. Once received into our UK warehouse all remaining products will be sent from there to all outstanding backers.

We have also agreed terms on dissolving our business partnership and both parties plan to look to their respective futures.

Thank you all for your patience.

William Yau – CEO DUST Studio
John-Paul Brisigotti – CEO Battlefront

Truly a great day for Miniature Market.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Truly a great day for Miniature Market.

Having dealt with battlefront's delivery system, expect 5 months, not 3.

Not to important anymore since the game's corpse is well into decomposition at this point. I guess I'll actually get the rest of my pledge to use for... something...

So glad I got my refund for this about this time last year. Never buying a product with any relation to Battlefront ever again.

I hope DUST can survive, as it was a fun game with some nice minis, but I just have bad taste in my mouth from the whole thing. Sold all my stuff last year and never looked back.

I still think DUST made some of the best vehicle models on the market. The Axis walkers go amazingly well with DFG's Eisenkern as a WW2 Star Wars force. The other walkers work for Old Republic or Space Commie Rebels, along with AT-43.

The post-Battlefront market seems to price the walkers and aircraft at about $25, which is much cheaper than any nonRussian sci fi vehicles I can think of, and even cheaper if you catch one of FFG's Feth You, DUST sales.

 Stormonu wrote:
Having dealt with battlefront's delivery system, expect 5 months, not 3.

You are an optimist, if ever there were one.

This is great news. I had completely given up of Dust and was thinking of trashing my minis (since this debacle made them relatively worthless). This debacle was very despicable, especially since I was told by both Dust and Battlefront that I was out around $300 worth of minis (including freebies based on dollar amount spent).

Looks like I will be hanging on to them and may get a few more Dust games in. However, I will be and am very leery about purchasing anything from Dust Studios AND Battlefront form now on.

 455_PWR wrote:
This is great news. I had completely given up of Dust and was thinking of trashing my minis (since this debacle made them relatively worthless). This debacle was very despicable, especially since I was told by both Dust and Battlefront that I was out around $300 worth of minis (including freebies based on dollar amount spent).

Looks like I will be hanging on to them and may get a few more Dust games in. However, I will be and am very leery about purchasing anything from Dust Studios AND Battlefront form now on.

So what you're saying is that this is Dust's despicable debacle done dreadfully dully?

I wonder if Team Yankee finally getting released had some relation to this. BF might have got enough cash flow freed up to just pay off DS so they could be done with.

A pre-Christmas miracle?

Methinks the damage was already done.

Great news for those waiting for stuff,

essential news for the game (although I think it's probably too late)

nullBolt, yes, in essence I am just happy to get what I wanted, paid for, and was rightfully supposed to get.

BOTH Battlefront AND Dust Studios did a lot of damage to this game and it's reputation, over a measly six figures of cash (not a ton for an established game in the long run). I'd say Dust Studios will have taken a much greater hit than that (10 fold?) and it will cost them over the next few years as they try to get back on their feet.

I know they lost my trust, especially when I see the merc girls I was supposed to receive for free more than a year ago being sold on their website right now, as well as other 'exclusive' minis, when I hadn't gotten mine and was told I would most likely not get mine.

Bad business.... very bad business.... with a shaken and shrunken following (no game stores around here carry the game anymore because of this) but a decent game nonetheless.

I lost interest in the game as soon as the conflict got dumped into the social media sphere. Very bad form.

I'll keep some models because they're so damned cool looking, but the rest of the game is going to get auctioned off/traded.

 CaulynDarr wrote:
I wonder if Team Yankee finally getting released had some relation to this. BF might have got enough cash flow freed up to just pay off DS so they could be done with.

My thoughts exactly, but I'd go even further to ask how much of an impact did all of the resources (staff and money) devoted to Team Yankee have in regards to the DUST kickstarter turning sour?

Battlefront clearly had money to throw at the Team Yankee project, but apparently none to pay off their DUST manufacturing debts?

Got my second Wave product - and very happy with them - the models look really great and so pleased I went for the premium versions - nicely done

Good to see backers getting their rewards. It's a shame the game is still a lost cause at this point. At least there are plenty of interesting proxy options for the models in other games. Unfortunately it seems that a lot of kickstarters run into various problems/delays that can leave backers abandoning g the hobby projects they were intended to be used in. I try to limit myself to only backing projects that I want regardless of how long it might take to get the rewards.

carboncopy wrote:

 CaulynDarr wrote:
I wonder if Team Yankee finally getting released had some relation to this. BF might have got enough cash flow freed up to just pay off DS so they could be done with.

My thoughts exactly, but I'd go even further to ask how much of an impact did all of the resources (staff and money) devoted to Team Yankee have in regards to the DUST kickstarter turning sour?

Battlefront clearly had money to throw at the Team Yankee project, but apparently none to pay off their DUST manufacturing debts?

I think it's a more complicated situation than that. BF probably thought that Dust as an acquisition would pay for itself. After putting in the resources to write the new version of the rules and all that stock they couldn't sell because of DS's contracts with FFG, they probably couldn't afford to throw good money after bad. That shouldn't preclude them developing their other brands.

I was surprised by the amount of resin and metal in the Team Yankee line as well as how staggered out the release is. My suspicion is that the reason TY isn't an all plastic game line is because of how hamstrung BF has been by this whole Kickstarter fiasco. And a relationship with a plastic manufacturing partner in China going sour as a result.

Fulfilling the first wave of orders on TY probably gave enough infusion of cash to BF to just get out from under this even if they had to take a bath on it.

 CaulynDarr wrote:

carboncopy wrote:

 CaulynDarr wrote:
I wonder if Team Yankee finally getting released had some relation to this. BF might have got enough cash flow freed up to just pay off DS so they could be done with.

My thoughts exactly, but I'd go even further to ask how much of an impact did all of the resources (staff and money) devoted to Team Yankee have in regards to the DUST kickstarter turning sour?

Battlefront clearly had money to throw at the Team Yankee project, but apparently none to pay off their DUST manufacturing debts?

I think it's a more complicated situation than that. BF probably thought that Dust as an acquisition would pay for itself. After putting in the resources to write the new version of the rules and all that stock they couldn't sell because of DS's contracts with FFG, they probably couldn't afford to throw good money after bad. That shouldn't preclude them developing their other brands.

I was surprised by the amount of resin and metal in the Team Yankee line as well as how staggered out the release is. My suspicion is that the reason TY isn't an all plastic game line is because of how hamstrung BF has been by this whole Kickstarter fiasco. And a relationship with a plastic manufacturing partner in China going sour as a result.

Fulfilling the first wave of orders on TY probably gave enough infusion of cash to BF to just get out from under this even if they had to take a bath on it.

The thing that I find most interesting is that there seemed to be substantial resources available when they've made decisions regarding the DUST Kickstarter. Where before it seemed that Battlefront may have been under water entirely and couldn't afford to pay off their debts or to allocate resources to getting backers their items, now it appears Battlefront has had resources to devote to a whole new line of licensed products. They made that choice while choosing to start a kickstarter that most likely created more debt for them. Instead of rectifying that, they ignored fulfilling their obligations for that kickstarter and may have even used resources from the kickstarter to help develop the Team Yankee line.

Also take a look at the magnitude of the Team Yankee line. We're talking about a whole new game with a few dozen new products all in a release cycle made in the same time period (or shorter) that the kickstarter has taken place. Yes there may have been bad blood between the two companies, but it appears they've had more than enough resources to fulfill their obligations to the backers and they chose to not do so.

Cost of wave shipping and freebies was not agreed beforehand on paper (but verbally something was agreed to stimulate the KS progress).

And simply, post KS, BF was not happy to take 120k+ USD on-cost nor Chinese Dust owner (freebies + shipping in waves) just becasue paper said nothing about it... really Chinese move imho.

Not defending BF but there was not only one bad guy in that story.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Cost of wave shipping and freebies was not agreed beforehand on paper (but verbally something was agreed to stimulate the KS progress).

And simply, post KS, BF was not happy to take 120k+ USD on-cost nor Chinese Dust owner (freebies + shipping in waves) just becasue paper said nothing about it... really Chinese move imho.

Not defending BF but there was not only one bad guy in that story.

You should maybe post that with a personal account so that your racist comments don't get tied to your company or those that work with you.

Wave shipping wouldn't have been needed if handled properly from the beginning. We also have nor real information on what transpired in terms of the freebies. Even when they were in dispute, and BF made the announcement that the other items would be shipped regardless, BF still drug their feet in getting those items out to backers all with Team Yankee development going full bore I'm sure.

carboncopy wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Cost of wave shipping and freebies was not agreed beforehand on paper (but verbally something was agreed to stimulate the KS progress).

And simply, post KS, BF was not happy to take 120k+ USD on-cost nor Chinese Dust owner (freebies + shipping in waves) just becasue paper said nothing about it... really Chinese move imho.

Not defending BF but there was not only one bad guy in that story.

You should maybe post that with a personal account so that your racist comments don't get tied to your company or those that work with you.

Wave shipping wouldn't have been needed if handled properly from the beginning. We also have nor real information on what transpired in terms of the freebies. Even when they were in dispute, and BF made the announcement that the other items would be shipped regardless, BF still drug their feet in getting those items out to backers all with Team Yankee development going full bore I'm sure.

Pretty sure he meant it in the cultural sense rather than a racial one, though definitely a comment that can easily be misinterpreted, and poorly so at that. But his comment about there not being one bad guy is very true; both sides did a lot wrong. Personally I put more blame on Dust Studios because, quite frankly, they told backers that we would not get certain products while at the same time selling said products themselves. Add to selling products retail before kickstarter orders for them had been filled, and that they jumped onto social media initially. That all really shows a lack of integrity that makes me put more doubt on their side of the story more than BF.

carboncopy wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Cost of wave shipping and freebies was not agreed beforehand on paper (but verbally something was agreed to stimulate the KS progress).

And simply, post KS, BF was not happy to take 120k+ USD on-cost nor Chinese Dust owner (freebies + shipping in waves) just becasue paper said nothing about it... really Chinese move imho.

Not defending BF but there was not only one bad guy in that story.

You should maybe post that with a personal account so that your racist comments don't get tied to your company or those that work with you.

Wave shipping wouldn't have been needed if handled properly from the beginning. We also have nor real information on what transpired in terms of the freebies. Even when they were in dispute, and BF made the announcement that the other items would be shipped regardless, BF still drug their feet in getting those items out to backers all with Team Yankee development going full bore I'm sure.

Hi there, well maybe I should explain it before I post it. The Chinese move in in fact is a business term used mainly In automotive industry... in happens when you ask a supplier for a quote, the supplier will make you "offer that you cannot say no to" on paper, however 2nd quote for similar work,after completion of the 1st work, will be in most of the cases twice more than the 1st one and 3rd one doubles again, regardless to what was agreed verbally . Thus you cannot never make a business plan based just on 1st quote... it called Chinese move because its use quite often by Chinese suppliers (probably due to fast economical growth and increase work load so they can be selective which work they take and once you bolt-on to one supplier they may be taking an advantage of that), so nothing racist or offensive here.

Referring to this situation, as stated something was agreed verbally and something on paper. Chinese manufacturer meant to cover freebies on their cost but once came to fulfilling commitments, as it was not agreed on paper, BF was billed for it.

I am a backer of Dust KS as well, and I totally understand what they are going through and the story is very complex I am afraid.

Thanks.

Regardless of its use in other areas, let's avoid stereotypical terms on the forum please (you can express the same idea in other ways - and the one being discussed here certainly isn't limited to a single nationality, as I'm sure many of us have experienced in various areas).

Thanks all

 RiTides wrote:
Regardless of its use in other areas, let's avoid stereotypical terms on the forum please (you can express the same idea in other ways - and the one being discussed here certainly isn't limited to a single nationality, as I'm sure many of us have experienced in various areas).

Thanks all

I refer to the same move as a Josh move. My buddy Josh pulls that nonsense all the time. Are we allowed to discriminate against people named Josh? (joking! please don't ban me)

Yes, it's OK to rib your friend Josh (I can't speak for "all the Joshes" ). Back on topic now, please

Glad to hear that backers are going to get their stuff.

A bit disappointing to hear that so many folks are going to throw in the towel after all. The game may or may not have a long future, but there's a wealth of supplements, 4 factions and a ton of great miniatures that have been released, so if you've got a group of friends who like the game it seems that there's still alot of fun to be had with the game.

Either way I've got no real skin in the game and if it does go down I guess that just means there will be more sales for for me to skim. I don't play Dust, but thanks to 2 years of FFG holiday sales I've mega-stocked-up on 6 legged transport walkers, warzone tenement buildings and helicopters for my sci-fi games.