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 MangoMadness wrote:
Can someone tell me where they are buying cheap plastic 'toy' dragons from that look as good as that?

The closest 'toy' dragons I have been able to find with decent quality are the pre-painted Heroscape dragons which are great value for D&D/RPG and wargaming on a budget.

They might just not be available in Australia but I go shopping for toys regularly at a wide variety of stores and Im not seeing dragons anywhere.

Here, we have decent, but not quite as nice, dragons at the dollar store and target. In the $15-$25 range, though, you get to Papo, Safari Ltd, Schleich, the brand that Michaels carries and so on. They are about the same quality as the Mantic Dragon, or better. On sites like Troll Trader, you can buy board game miniatures, including DnD dragons, but the prices vary dramatically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot about the McFarlane Dragons, and I even own some. Also, there are the Monster Hunter figures sold in import stores for about $8 each, but they are blind buys.

I visit the local dollar store occasionally, and when I do I always check to see if they have cheap animal toys I can use in KoW.

Even for a buck, the ones they have aren't worth it.

 NTRabbit wrote:
I visit the local dollar store occasionally, and when I do I always check to see if they have cheap animal toys I can use in KoW.

Even for a buck, the ones they have aren't worth it.

Go closer to Halloween? In my area, there are three different brands of dollar store, and two of them often get loads of great stuff, like Hot Wheels Star Wars Die Cast ships for $1 each, packs of Heroclix with four or five minis for $1, the MTG board games with tons of minis (Heroscape quality) for $5. I have recently bought Bones quality monsters, like a skeletal scorpion that is a foot long, skeletal birds, and this guy who is a lot cheaper than the Bones equivalent and looks quite nice.

Halloween isn't so much a thing down here, though it has increased in recent years amongst my fellow millennials, and I can't imagine why *peruses google image search of women's halloween party costumes* No, no idea at all

Decorations like that, still not so much. At least in my city, anyway. I've never seen Heroclix or MTG or anything remotely approaching a known brand in a dollar store, they're in hard enough to find in department stores, and are usually restricted to specialty game stores. Dollar stores are strictly limited to no name or copycat name brands produced in China and south east Asia.

I have here some stores around selling toys in the right size
but the good looking stuff is equal in price as the Mantic models.

Yeah, mantic as very cool models. Others are less cool, from the past most of them. I understand why the dragon was made with some characteristics, but even then, it is not the model to stand your ground and defend mantic.
That dragon is no better than the pumbagor. It does not mean the company is bad. Just that specific model. (and ey, one can like bad models. I LOVE gw minotaurs)

Which stores have dollar Heroclix boxes Inquisitor Bob? I may have to check my local ones then, as I always pick up packs to use with my students around the end of the year, what with them being familiar with most of the characters these days.

Are those legit McFarlane dragons? I don't recognize some of them, makes me wonder if recasters have gotten creative and done their own thing again. I've got some crazy Lego sets from China/ HK that don't match up to any actual offerings on the market, wouldn't surprise me if they've come up with their own designs.

I never owned any of the McFarlane dragons (as I was to cool for them at the time sadly) but always looked at them longingly.

My wife at least tolerates all the monsters around the house, may have to track some down....

99c Only stores carried them, at least in Fountain Valley/Huntington Beach. They were also the chain that carried the SW and MTG stuff I mentioned earlier. They are all sold out now, though...

If you want some Clix minis, I have some that I can give you. I'm not sure I can find all their cards, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And they're mostly DC. The Marvel boxes were $3.

1. Wait for Mierce 2-4-1 sale
2. Buy 2 Parawns which work out the same price as the Mantic dragon each
3. ????
4. Profit

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Which stores have dollar Heroclix boxes Inquisitor Bob? I may have to check my local ones then, as I always pick up packs to use with my students around the end of the year, what with them being familiar with most of the characters these days.

Are those legit McFarlane dragons? I don't recognize some of them, makes me wonder if recasters have gotten creative and done their own thing again. I've got some crazy Lego sets from China/ HK that don't match up to any actual offerings on the market, wouldn't surprise me if they've come up with their own designs.
I never owned any of the McFarlane dragons (as I was to cool for them at the time sadly) but always looked at them longingly.

The ones I linked? Yes they are, but only the first two, when I referenced eBay were Mcfarlane. The latter group are Papo and Schleich. I doubt "recasters" would care enough about something as niche as the Mcfarlane dragons when there are things like Star Wars and Marvel superhero toys to knock off.

 Azazelx wrote:

This one is AU$30 with free postage.
Found one of these for AU$20 + $10 postage (this is a clearer picture - different seller)

Thanks for the links, i also found those on ebay and maybe its because I am tight with my money but I wouldnt call $30 a 'cheap kids toy'

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

No worse, although slightly smaller.

9cm tall is a very small dragon but what i would expect for around $A11

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Go closer to Halloween?

Most halloween toys we get here in oz are more rubber than hard plastic and the range is severely limited.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
In my area, there are three different brands of dollar store, and two of them often get loads of great stuff, like Hot Wheels Star Wars Die Cast ships for $1 each, packs of Heroclix with four or five minis for $1, the MTG board games with tons of minis (Heroscape quality) for $5.

Unfortunately we just dont have the clearance houses like minimarket, I often see the sales on there and even amazon and wish we could get close to those deals here. The MTG board game i was able to pick up cheaply though (nowhere near $5 though), great models for the price point, unfortunately couldnt get the expansions.


Overall I think my point in all this is that it is easy and incorrect to say "I can get better with a cheap kids toy" because sometime when we were a kid in the 80's we bought a $2 dragon and remember it to have been pretty cool. They just arnt cheap these days or if they are they are very small or made of rubber (like the cheap dinosaurs) which doesnt hold paint.

To be impolite, i call BS on "i can get better with a cheap kids toy"

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

This one is AU$30 with free postage.
Found one of these for AU$20 + $10 postage (this is a clearer picture - different seller)

Thanks for the links, i also found those on ebay and maybe its because I am tight with my money but I wouldnt call $30 a 'cheap kids toy'

To repeat myself again.

1) The Mantic dragon looks like a cheap kid's toy.
2) I am unaware of exactly what's available in the toy shops right now, as that gak cycles through.
3) Examples of cheap dragons came from others.
4) I never claimed that I knew of specific alternatives for $5 or $10. (again, check Bones offerings). I said the Mantic dragon looks like a cheap toy.
4) I showed you alternatives that are still cheaper then the Mantic one - often half the price or less, and all of which are better looking (subjectively, and IMO) than the Mantic one.

Here's more options for models to use the "wingless" dragon profile, or any number of other KoW beasts.
https://www.minizoo.com.au/categories/schleich/dinosaurs/?sort=priceasc
https://www.minizoo.com.au/categories/papo/prehistoric/?sort=priceasc
https://www.minizoo.com.au/categories/safari/dinosaurs/?sort=priceasc

...and so on.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MangoMadness wrote:

Overall I think my point in all this is that it is easy and incorrect to say "I can get better with a cheap kids toy" because sometime when we were a kid in the 80's we bought a $2 dragon and remember it to have been pretty cool. They just arnt cheap these days or if they are they are very small or made of rubber (like the cheap dinosaurs) which doesnt hold paint.
To be impolite, i call BS on "i can get better with a cheap kids toy"

Let's not be impolite and make up bs quotes. Because doing so is both impolite and bs and absolutely going out of your way to be a dick. So don't do that, please. What you claim above isn't actually what was said.

Let's use what both Gimagoo and I actually typed instead, eh?

 Azazelx wrote:

Aesthetics are personal. I think it looks like a cheap toy for the kind of gaming that a child does when playing with their toy soldiers (I have one or two from DS backing) and much prefer the GW "snake" style dragons over the DS one, though they're not my favourite type either. Made for gaming but not to look good might be another way to put it.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I generally like Mantic models, but the Dragon (along with the Soul Reavers) are models I can't stand. They just look like cheap kids toys.
I can see the reason why the dragon was designed like this - keeping it to fit over a particular base size for use in a boardgame. This also fits with the KoW base sizes.
NTRabbit's done a good job of painting it - far better than Mantic did, but the model is poor.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note to mods: I'm done with this tangent (and probably talking to Mango full stop as he's just hit the ignore list). I'd very much appreciate if you could leave the above post up, since I really dislike being deliberately misrepresented in the way that he chose to do, so the counterpoint is important - and the rest of the post provides valid models for anyone playing KoW or Warhammer or AoS or whatever (I've got a bunch in my own forces).

I'll also stop posting up alternatives in this one since it's Mantic's thread, and I don't wish to derail it further.

 Baragash wrote:
1. Wait for Mierce 2-4-1 sale
2. Buy 2 Parawns which work out the same price as the Mantic dragon each
3. ????
4. Profit

Step 3 is “wait 12-24 months while they run another few kickstarters to pay for their backlog”.

To be clear, I love a lot of Mantic minis and buy too many every Kickstarter. However, I find that they have released a lot of big, pricey monster minis that are just not very well designed, or even sculpted in some cases (like the large earth elemental). When a small mini is a miss, it doesn't matter. When a center prince mini is a miss, and also more expensive than reasonable competition, then that's a problem. Potential customers are likely to dismiss Mantic right away when the first Mantic minis they see are some of the worst in their class.

I assume that such missteps are caused by the decision makers at Mantic not keeping up with the current state of the miniatures market.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I assume that such missteps are caused by the decision makers at Mantic not keeping up with the current state of the miniatures market.

Miniatures and rules market would be a more accurate statement in my experience.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
1. Wait for Mierce 2-4-1 sale
2. Buy 2 Parawns which work out the same price as the Mantic dragon each
3. ????
4. Profit

Step 3 is “wait 12-24 months while they run another few kickstarters to pay for their backlog”.

I guess the benefit of buying a model that's already in existence is that that isn't Step 3

Also a topic for another thread, but many people have ethical objections to ever buying from Mierce

I'm a believer. Coincidentally another strong greater fire elemental from Mantic

- Salvage

That is a cool model.

I like the lava rock exterior idea, makes the firey parts really stand out. I tried to pain an Eldar Avatar kinda like that once, and failed miserably.

Looks good with paint. I may try and track one down in the sad hope of accomplishing a similar paint job.

It’s not a Fire Elemental, it’s Chroneas.

Because apparently no one bothered to read the fluff when they commissioned the sculptor

 Baragash wrote:
It’s not a Fire Elemental, it’s Chroneas.

Because apparently no one bothered to read the fluff when they commissioned the sculptor

I'll bite... What should the model look like?

Fantastic model. Some people seem upset that he looks like a fire elemental, when his fluff refers to some sort of timey wimey wibbely wobbely type magic. I think I might paint the fire parts purple and his skin dark red to fit in with the rest of my abyssal force.

This is another sign of mantics model range improving in quality.

 Baragash wrote:
It’s not a Fire Elemental, it’s Chroneas.

Because apparently no one bothered to read the fluff when they commissioned the sculptor

"It is said that these black-skinned beasts have roamed the world since its creation, and only after the Sundering found service in the legions of the Wicked Ones. Around them, time can flow faster or more slowly than elsewhere, and their enemies are often caused to wither and die in a heartbeat as the curse of ages is placed upon them." - KoW2 Hardback Rulebook

Also, they have Breath Attack(20) in the rules.

Chroneas is now on preorder £29.99 shipping from the 18th of June

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/new/kings-of-war/product/abyssal-chroneas.html

Each day this week we're going to be announcing a new resin monster for Kings of War!

You might have spotted the Abyssal Chroneas in the newsletter - he's now available to pre-order, along with our Monster bundles. Each bundle contains a Chroneas and a Forces of the Abyss Army or Mega Army, with a discount versus buying separately!

Here's a hint as to what is coming tomorrow...

 sukura636 wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
It’s not a Fire Elemental, it’s Chroneas.

Because apparently no one bothered to read the fluff when they commissioned the sculptor

"It is said that these black-skinned beasts have roamed the world since its creation, and only after the Sundering found service in the legions of the Wicked Ones. Around them, time can flow faster or more slowly than elsewhere, and their enemies are often caused to wither and die in a heartbeat as the curse of ages is placed upon them." - KoW2 Hardback Rulebook

Also, they have Breath Attack(20) in the rules.

Eh, the fluff is like a knockoff of the Shrike from Hyperion, and so's the sculpt.

None of the depictions of the Shrike I've ever seen have matched what I pictured in my head when I first read Hyperion (and the editions I read were the black covered Gollancz S.F. ones with no Shrike art on the front)

The shrike is supposed to have four arms, look like quicksilver, and be covered with barbs, blades and spikes. The Chroneas is closer to a Balrog than to the shrike, and it's not that close to a balrog.

A passing resemblance to the Destroyer from Thor 1 maybe?

In my head the Shrike was what I can best describe as a cross between a human, a Necron Wraith, and a Shadow from Babylon 5

The new Chroneas is actually a really solid model from Mantic, pretty different from how I imagined it I was more
thinking something along the lines of the primal Titan from Final Fantasy XIV, but this is cool regardless.

The water elemental is okay I guess, it does its job.