Mr Morden wrote:
At least in the films/TV - HYDRA are not nazi's they are:

Spoiler:

Worshipers - in a Cthulhu cult way - or an ancient diety (actually an inhuman) who they wish to return to Earth from another world, hoping for an appropriate reward

not that that makes them any better - just not nazi's - who they use as another front...........

Are you sure its not the Winer Soldier storyline?

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
It's comic books, it'll get retconed.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
It's comic books, it'll get retconed.

Too late for some people; according to many, it's already:

Crapping on the Jewish heritage of Captain America's creators
Crapping on the Jewish heritage of comic books
Crapping on Jews as a whole
Making a mockery of the Holocaust and Jewish suffering
Trivialising genocide
[Insert yet more absurd claims here]

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I read an article that he was de-aged by the Cosmic Cube made human; someone/something that has spent a lot of time with Red Skull. Cosmic Cube responsible for this? Likely. I'm sure it'll be back to normal at some point...might involve time travel though. I guess those pesky FF or X-Men will have to get involved. They still have a monopoly on time travel, right?

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I read an article that he was de-aged by the Cosmic Cube made human; someone/something that has spent a lot of time with Red Skull. Cosmic Cube responsible for this? Likely. I'm sure it'll be back to normal at some point...might involve time travel though. I guess those pesky FF or X-Men will have to get involved. They still have a monopoly on time travel, right?

That's my main issue with the complaints: we don't know anything. There's been no plot revealed, no characters have had a chance to state their reasoning or intent, nothing has been established except that Steve uttered two words, and they were "Hail Hydra". Thousands of people have already managed to assume that makes him literally Hitler.

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I read an article that he was de-aged by the Cosmic Cube made human; someone/something that has spent a lot of time with Red Skull. Cosmic Cube responsible for this? Likely. I'm sure it'll be back to normal at some point...might involve time travel though. I guess those pesky FF or X-Men will have to get involved. They still have a monopoly on time travel, right?

That's my main issue with the complaints: we don't know anything. There's been no plot revealed, no characters have had a chance to state their reasoning or intent, nothing has been established except that Steve uttered two words, and they were "Hail Hydra". Thousands of people have already managed to assume that makes him literally Hitler.

go look some more, the writers are already showing how he was an agent of Hydra before and how all his actions were nothing more then to aide Hydra. trust me if this was just because he said "Hail Hydra" at the end of a comic book then that would be nothing since he could be being sarcastic, go read the interviews, Marvel has come out saying he was a Hydra Sleeper Agent.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I read an article that he was de-aged by the Cosmic Cube made human; someone/something that has spent a lot of time with Red Skull. Cosmic Cube responsible for this? Likely. I'm sure it'll be back to normal at some point...might involve time travel though. I guess those pesky FF or X-Men will have to get involved. They still have a monopoly on time travel, right?

That's my main issue with the complaints: we don't know anything. There's been no plot revealed, no characters have had a chance to state their reasoning or intent, nothing has been established except that Steve uttered two words, and they were "Hail Hydra". Thousands of people have already managed to assume that makes him literally Hitler.

go look some more, the writers are already showing how he was an agent of Hydra before and how all his actions were nothing more then to aide Hydra. trust me if this was just because he said "Hail Hydra" at the end of a comic book then that would be nothing since he could be being sarcastic, go read the interviews, Marvel has come out saying he was a Hydra Sleeper Agent.

That changes literally nothing.

What we know from the fact he's a sleeper agent:
He works for Hydra
Nothing more

What we know from the fact he said "Hail Hydra":
He works for Hydra
Nothing more

Neither of them provide any more information than the other; they're both pointless getting worked up about with the current information.

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I read an article that he was de-aged by the Cosmic Cube made human; someone/something that has spent a lot of time with Red Skull. Cosmic Cube responsible for this? Likely. I'm sure it'll be back to normal at some point...might involve time travel though. I guess those pesky FF or X-Men will have to get involved. They still have a monopoly on time travel, right?

That's my main issue with the complaints: we don't know anything. There's been no plot revealed, no characters have had a chance to state their reasoning or intent, nothing has been established except that Steve uttered two words, and they were "Hail Hydra". Thousands of people have already managed to assume that makes him literally Hitler.

go look some more, the writers are already showing how he was an agent of Hydra before and how all his actions were nothing more then to aide Hydra. trust me if this was just because he said "Hail Hydra" at the end of a comic book then that would be nothing since he could be being sarcastic, go read the interviews, Marvel has come out saying he was a Hydra Sleeper Agent.

That changes literally nothing.

What we know from the fact he's a sleeper agent:
He works for Hydra
Nothing more

What we know from the fact he said "Hail Hydra":
He works for Hydra
Nothing more

Neither of them provide any more information than the other; they're both pointless getting worked up about with the current information.

seriously do you read any of the articles? or just thinking its based off of a frame from a Comic book? ok he Killed Jack Flag, you know his patriotic buddy? if they did this with IronMan I wouldn't be too concerned since could see that happening, but not Captain America, and the above article was by an editor at Mavel and he said Caps evil and has always been, go read the article, Marvel is getting political and linking Trump with HYDRA.

Issue 2 kind of winds the clock back a little bit and lays out exactly how and why things are the way they are. And it lays out a roadmap for where things are headed in the future. At this point, I don’t want to say too much definitively because I want people to read the comic books.

Again, I don’t want to say anything too definitively because we’re laying out the story. But we want to push that button. There should be a feeling of horror or unsettledness at the idea that somebody like this can secretly be part of this organization. There are perfectly normal people in the world who you would interact with on a professional level or personal level, and they seem like the salt of the earth but then it turns out they have some horrible secret — whether it’s that they don’t like a certain group of people or have bodies buried in their basement.

You should feel uneasy about the fact that everything you know and love about Steve Rogers can be upended.

To say it’s a gimmick implies that it’s done heedlessly just to shock. The proof is always going to be in the execution. So you’ll have to read the rest of the story to see.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

To restate: what do we know? 1. Steve is a Hydra agent. 2. Nothing more.

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

To restate: what do we know? 1. Steve is a Hydra agent. 2. Nothing more.

1: Steve has been and always has been a Hydra Agent

2: thats enough

 AlexHolker wrote:
Even without getting into the politics of it, this is still gakky writing that should get Nick Spencer exiled to some F-list comic. Only an idiot believes that subverting expectations by doing the thing that makes the least possible sense makes for good storytelling.

Asterios wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
Even without getting into the politics of it, this is still gakky writing that should get Nick Spencer exiled to some F-list comic. Only an idiot believes that subverting expectations by doing the thing that makes the least possible sense makes for good storytelling.

Nick Spencer as has been pointed out has been very political and hes pushing his political ideals into the comic, this will backfire on Marvel and hurt them, most people read comics to get away from real world politics.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
Even without getting into the politics of it, this is still gakky writing that should get Nick Spencer exiled to some F-list comic. Only an idiot believes that subverting expectations by doing the thing that makes the least possible sense makes for good storytelling.

Nick Spencer as has been pointed out has been very political and hes pushing his political ideals into the comic, this will backfire on Marvel and hurt them, most people read comics to get away from real world politics.

So the comic doesn't get bought, the idea gets abandoned, is no longer considered canon.

Where does the need for any sort of full boycott, or anything close to the level of furore people unleashed after this, begin if you're already convinced it'll be a failure? Let the sales do the talking, and if it's awful, it'll kill itself off; if it survives, then obviously enough people enjoy it to keep it going.

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
Even without getting into the politics of it, this is still gakky writing that should get Nick Spencer exiled to some F-list comic. Only an idiot believes that subverting expectations by doing the thing that makes the least possible sense makes for good storytelling.

Nick Spencer as has been pointed out has been very political and hes pushing his political ideals into the comic, this will backfire on Marvel and hurt them, most people read comics to get away from real world politics.

So the comic doesn't get bought, the idea gets abandoned, is no longer considered canon.

Where does the need for any sort of full boycott, or anything close to the level of furore people unleashed after this, begin if you're already convinced it'll be a failure? Let the sales do the talking, and if it's awful, it'll kill itself off; if it survives, then obviously enough people enjoy it to keep it going.

because by me BoyCotting Marvel I am sending a message to Marvel "Bad Marvel, Bad" already called my local comic shop and told him to cancel my subs for any Marvel comics, and funny thing is he told me I wasn't the only one to do that today.

Yes, this is the shocking moment that comes from the very end of today’s Captain America: Steve Rogers #1, the new Marvel ongoing series that picks up with the newly-rejuvenated (if you’ve not kept up, Steve’s spent the past few years being a wrinkly old man with no superpowers, hence why Sam Wilson, a.k.a. The Falcon, took on the Cap mantle) Steve Rogers, once again Captain America, taking the fight to his oldest foes.

Except they’re actually his oldest friends. This first issue tells two stories: the first being the modern-set adventures of Steve, joined by his girlfriend Sharon Carter, and c-list patriotically-themed heroes Jack Flag and Free Spirit (remember Jack Flag’s goofy boom box laser gun? It doesn’t matter anymore, Steve throws Jack Flag out of a plane at the end of this issue, because he’s secretly super eeeeviiiiillll) as they try to root out the Red Skull’s resurgent Hydra, which is tapping into the very timely themes of youth unemployment and immigrant-hating to drive recruitment for a new era of the terrorist organization.

The second is the framing device, set in 1926, which reveals that after a chance encounter with a woman who saves her from her abusive husband, Steve’s mother Sarah is wooed into joining Hydra in its earliest days—setting up that young Steve simply followed in his darling mother’s footsteps as an agent of evil, simply playing the long con of being the most patriotic hero in America for three quarters of a century.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

And if this new comic still goes strong afterwards, will you re-sub? Clearly if it isn't a flop despite your boycott, enough people like it to either make up for lost sales, or to give them enough of a thumbs up that they keep going with it. Or will you continue withholding your custom until they start to produce only the content you want, and screw anyone who wants anything new?

Asterios wrote:
also here is how the story is going so far.

Yes, this is the shocking moment that comes from the very end of today’s Captain America: Steve Rogers #1, the new Marvel ongoing series that picks up with the newly-rejuvenated (if you’ve not kept up, Steve’s spent the past few years being a wrinkly old man with no superpowers, hence why Sam Wilson, a.k.a. The Falcon, took on the Cap mantle) Steve Rogers, once again Captain America, taking the fight to his oldest foes.

Except they’re actually his oldest friends. This first issue tells two stories: the first being the modern-set adventures of Steve, joined by his girlfriend Sharon Carter, and c-list patriotically-themed heroes Jack Flag and Free Spirit (remember Jack Flag’s goofy boom box laser gun? It doesn’t matter anymore, Steve throws Jack Flag out of a plane at the end of this issue, because he’s secretly super eeeeviiiiillll) as they try to root out the Red Skull’s resurgent Hydra, which is tapping into the very timely themes of youth unemployment and immigrant-hating to drive recruitment for a new era of the terrorist organization.

The second is the framing device, set in 1926, which reveals that after a chance encounter with a woman who saves her from her abusive husband, Steve’s mother Sarah is wooed into joining Hydra in its earliest days—setting up that young Steve simply followed in his darling mother’s footsteps as an agent of evil, simply playing the long con of being the most patriotic hero in America for three quarters of a century.

The irony of your use of this this quote is that it comes from this article, rather aptly named: [url=http://io9.gizmodo.com/everyone-please-stop-freaking-out-about-that-ridiculou-1778646082]
Everyone, Please Stop Freaking Out About That Ridiculous Captain America Reveal[/url]

 Avatar 720 wrote:


The irony of your use of this this quote is that it comes from this article, rather aptly named

 Avatar 720 wrote:

And if this new comic still goes strong afterwards, will you re-sub? Clearly if it isn't a flop despite your boycott, enough people like it to either make up for lost sales, or to give them enough of a thumbs up that they keep going with it. Or will you continue withholding your custom until they start to produce only the content you want, and screw anyone who wants anything new?

Asterios wrote:
It is my choice, and my choice alone, did I tell you to boycott Marvel? did i tell anyone to Boycott Marvel? the answer is no to both this is my choice and from what i'm hearing i'm not the only one who has decided this.

Asterios wrote:
That site still thinks this is a gimmick though, big difference since nobody can seriously believe that Marvel would do something like this while not realizing Cap has already killed one patriotic good guy and Marvel has let a political activist into their staff.

But please, let’s not pretend this is real, or permanent, or won’t be utterly undone in a storyarc or two.

 Avatar 720 wrote:


You didn't answer my question. Not even close.

Asterios wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You didn't answer my question. Not even close.

yes I did, I don't care whether this comic is good or bad to others, it is not for me which also tells me that if Marvel is willing to do this what else will they do? I would rather not find out and hence my Boycott of all things Marvel. to answer your question, this is my choice and my right. as to not being a flop something tells me this will be cancelled real soon since Marvel is already taking heat from this.