I am Boycotting anything and everything to do with Marvel

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**Ahtman**

There are no longer degrees of dumb and exploitative? All stories are equal in all ways and beyond reproach? I think gorgon is right that some hold on to hard to older iterations/ideas but it also seems some are way to lenient and willing to excuse anything by that same measure. There has to be something in between "it is just comics and people who don't like something are silly" and "OMG WORST THING EVAR" *foams at mouth*

**Manchu**

Paradigm wrote:
Really not sure what you're trying to say here.

lol sure you do, why even bother with that prologue? Anyway:

Paradigm wrote:
There are some comics out there that I'm sure are utter crap, but equally there are plenty that are of considerable artistic merit

Or wait maybe you didn't read + understand my post (that you quoted and to which you ostensibly responded)?

Manchu wrote:
Comics have always had a miserable reputation, which they have mostly earned fair and square.

But anyhow I think you are pretty close to getting my point, you just want to exaggerate it to make this non-remark seem more credible:

Paradigm wrote:
Dismissing the entire spectrum of comics and suggesting the readers are naive for expecting quality when said quality is frequently delivered just seems needlessly judgemental.

To the extent that there is a "spectrum" of comics, we aren't talking about that. We're talking about mainstream super hero comic books, as I'm sure you actually already understand, all rhetorical posturing aside. And there have been plenty of 'em since the 1930s. Thousands upon thousands of them. And of these, the vast majority, I mean overwhelmingly so, are written, drawn, and printed with no higher aim than to distribute - I won't even go so far as "to sell" because how anyone thinks some of this could sell, especially looking at the existing numbers, is beyond me. So we're talking really like a needle of good in an ocean of garbage. This idea of making Cap a Hydra Sleeper Agent is straight out of the well-stocked landfill of trashy comic book tropes. It is absolutely par for the course.

Now that said, I like trashy comic book soap opera junk to a certain extent. There is a difference between liking something and something being good.

**Paradigm**

@Ahtman: If you're referring to my comments there, that's not what I'm going for, I'm simply saying that personally I find this particular plot hook an intriguing one that in no way offends or upsets me, and I'm willing to give it a shot and see how it develops rather than panning it straight away based on one issue of a new run.

Trust me, there are many things in the comic world I consider very, very dumb indeed, not least what DC have done with Superman in the last week (I seem to be one of the few that actually found the N52 version far more compelling a character than the pre-Flashpoint one), this is just not one of them!

But each to their own, of course!

@Manchu: It was genuine on my part, thanks for clarifying. I see what you're referring to now, even if I don't entirely agree. Thanks for clarifying. Personally I'd say that the vast majority of mainstream superhero comics I've read have been very enjoyable affairs, but that's just because I love the premise, I love superheroes and I find them entertaining even if they're in some cases not works of art.

**Manchu**

Sure, I amended my post before seeing your response - I like it too, the same way I like junk food every once in a while. I don't pull up to Burger King for filet mignon ... or try to convince anyone that onion rings are good for you.

**Paradigm**

Ah, fair enough, didn't see your edit! Seems we're mostly on the same page afterall! Apologies for the confusion.

**Ahtman**

Paradigm wrote:
@Ahtman: If you're referring to my comments there

I'm not referring to any specific comments, just what appears to be a trend happening as far as criticism of comic story lines are concerned.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Paradigm wrote:
, not least what DC have done with Superman in the last week (I seem to be one of the few that actually found the N52 version far more compelling a character than the pre-Flashpoint one)

What happened in the last week? I haven't been keeping up lately.

I didn't mind the New 52 Superman to be honest.

**Manchu**

Ahtman - as a kid I thought Knightfall was great and I loved X-Factor ... arguably some of the most exploitative developments in 1990s comics (let's just ... not talk about Spawn). Exploitation works, I guess, on its intended victims. Lesson being, it's not so much that there needs to be degrees of garbage but more of a "one man's garbage" issue, or as I like to call it nowadays "The Phantom Menace Conundrum."

**Paradigm**

Ahtman wrote:

Paradigm wrote:
, not least what DC have done with Superman in the last week (I seem to be one of the few that actually found the N52 version far more compelling a character than the pre-Flashpoint one)

What happened in the last week? I haven't been keeping up lately.

I didn't mind the New 52 Superman to be honest.

Big Spoilers from Rebirth:

Spoiler:

Probably worth giving Rebirth its own thread for further discussion, rather than going on a tangent in this one.

**Talizvar**

I hate to say, it is comics.
Pretty much anything and everything can happen.
Then can all be whisked away as an alternate earth thing or all just a dream borrowing from a soap opera.
They just increasingly become a writer's/artist's sandbox.
The OP is proclaiming it is being used as a litterbox however.
Easy for me to say until they write that Peter Parker had been eaten long ago by the original parasite suit and Venom is just it's angry child.

**Goliath**

Theory: Cap was actually saying "Hail Hydration" but his throat was too dry to finish the sentence.

**Avatar 720**

Goliath wrote:
Theory: Cap was actually saying "Hail Hydration" but his throat was too dry to finish the sentence.

Nobody who truly works for the Red Skull would ever have a dry throat! Cap is redeemed!

**chromedog**

Come to 2000AD.

Dredd doesn't care who mr-patriot pants works for. Creep's goin' down to the cubes anyway.

I've read 2 marvel superhero comics in my life - 1 spiderman, 1 cap) and a handful of DC stuff. I found Dredd and never looked back tbh.

**Talizvar**

chromedog wrote:
Come to 2000AD.
Dredd doesn't care who mr-patriot pants works for. Creep's goin' down to the cubes anyway.
I've read 2 marvel superhero comics in my life - 1 spiderman, 1 cap) and a handful of DC stuff. I found Dredd and never looked back tbh.

You might like "Marshal Law" then.
It is more like "Lobo" meets "Dredd" but every bit as strange.
I also liked a character from GW for Necromunda: "The Redeemer" has a similar vibe.

Still, "boycott Marvel", for Captain America not being the boy scout envisioned seems harsh.
I still keep an eye on Spiderman since he was my childhood favorite.

**Ahtman**

Talizvar wrote:
Still, "boycott Marvel", for Captain America not being the boy scout envisioned seems harsh.

While I agree with the general idea pretending that having a hero suddenly be a villain is not even close to "not being a boy scout".

**chromedog**

Talizvar wrote:

It is more like "Lobo" meets "Dredd" but every bit as strange.
I also liked a character from GW for Necromunda: "The Redeemer" has a similar vibe.

I HAVE read Marshall Law. It's a Pat Mills thing. It's a brit thing. They don't tend to do overly happy and optimistic future schtick.
The Redeemer seemed to borrow too heavily from a Torquemada vibe (as in the futuristic one from 2000AD) for me - and I really don't dig on the "burn everything KKK " vibe that that faction has in that game.

I'm not really a comics reader, though. Not because I think it's a "childish" thing or "immature" or whatever, just that I just don't get into them.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

chromedog wrote:
Come to 2000AD.

Dredd doesn't care who mr-patriot pants works for. Creep's goin' down to the cubes anyway.

I've read 2 marvel superhero comics in my life - 1 spiderman, 1 cap) and a handful of DC stuff. I found Dredd and never looked back tbh.

Give Donjon a try, it's awesome.

Talizvar wrote:
I also liked a character from GW for Necromunda: "The Redeemer" has a similar vibe.

Was pretty awesome indeed!

**CthuluIsSpy**

Are there still Warhammer comics being made? I remember reading a few a while ago. Their quality was...erratic. Sometimes it was awesome, other times...eh.
I think the best one I read so far was the one about an Imperial Guard officer somehow getting covered in green goo, which tricked a bunch of orks into thinking he was a deformed grot. The warboss kept him as a good luck charm

**beast_gts**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are there still Warhammer comics being made? I remember reading a few a while ago. Their quality was...erratic. Sometimes it was awesome, other times...eh.
I think the best one I read so far was the one about an Imperial Guard officer somehow getting covered in green goo, which tricked a bunch of orks into thinking he was a deformed grot. The warboss kept him as a good luck charm

Titan Comics are publishing new ones, starting in September.

**VorpalBunny74**

I have a theory that he isn't referencing the organisation Hydra, but actually a new male superhero called 'Hydra'.

They're trying to cut the Tsortean Knot of both controversies.

"Hail my boyfriend!"

**Avatar 720**

VorpalBunny74 wrote:
I have a theory that he isn't referencing the organisation Hydra, but actually a new male superhero called 'Hydra'.

They're trying to cut the Tsortean Knot of both controversies.

"Hail my boyfriend!"

Well you know what they say about multiple heads being better than one...

**VorpalBunny74**

Avatar 720 wrote:
Well you know what they say about multiple heads being better than one...

Hence why he's worshipping him

**Alpharius**

Less "LULZ", more on topic - thanks.

**timetowaste85**

Rewatched the Civil War movie yesterday. Still don't understand how people are getting that Cap is gay for Bucky. Bucky was his best friend in the world, he watched him "die" and saw him come back as a slave. They're also both two men trapped outside of their own time, and Cap has always been about saving people. Plus he's with Peggy's niece! Seriously...calling him gay for Bucky....just no. Straight up idiocy. This is the story of a man desperate to save the only connection to his childhood and his old life. Can anyone on here truly say they wouldn't do the same for their best friend? Hell, I know I would! (If I was super strong and had a shield that gave the middle finger to physics).

**Alpharius**

I haven't really been seeing a lot of that at all, so...probably the classic 'tempest in a teacup'/non-issue?

**timetowaste85**

Alpharius wrote:
I haven't really been seeing a lot of that at all, so...probably the classic 'tempest in a teacup'/non-issue?

If you go online, and look up the Captain America Hydra thing, this is associated. And all over Facebook. I had links sent to me by three separate friends before I even knew it was a thing (mostly because I tend to avoid most social media, except here).

**Avatar 720**

I'm a rather avid twitter user, and the #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend and #SayNoToHydraCap trends were absolutely huge. If you're not a big user of social media then you'll probably have missed it, but it took those sorts of platforms by storm.

**Compel**

Yeah, it was trending for a while on Twitter as well. It's quite a big 'thing' overall.

This article - Fandom is Broken touches on it a bit too. I have mixed feelings about the article. EG It's not "entitlement" to say, "I don't like this and therefore I'm not going to buy it, but if you did this, I would like it and therefore buy it."

On the other hand, this is downright freaking scary.

J___ E____ wrote:As a Former Active Duty US Marine and a Disabled Veteran, I want you to know that when I joined the Marines back in 95’ I did so under a strict Code of Ethics. Truth, Honor and Justice. This Code was inspired by Steve Rogers. I knew I could never be the person he was, I just wasn’t mentally built for it, but it gave me something to strive for. Yes, the Character of Stever Rogers AKA Captain America is a fictional one, but it is also one that emboydies what the Idea Human Being, not just American should strive to be. Steve Rogers never claimed to be perfect, but he tried his best every day to do the right thing no matter what.

For the last 21 years I have modeled my own Moral Code after the belief that I would NEVER tell a Lie, No matter the consequences. There is no such thing as “a little white lie”. My Honesty, and My Honor was everything to me. It kept me from becoming the Monster that I could have easily become. Thanks to your idiocy and disregard for what an American Symbol stood for, you have made it “OK” to disregard those Ideals. It apperantly is ok to Lie, Cheat, Steal and Murder, because feth It, who cares right? Steve Rogers aka Captain American has been doing it for 75 YEARS.

Fine, congradulations, you have made the last 21 years of my life and the Code I lived by, the hardships I endured because I refused to sacrifice that Code MEANINGLESS. You have disgraced what Joe Simon and Jack Kirby had the character stand for. The whole point of that Character was to showcase the potential of what human beings could be. Dispite the Odds stacked against them.

So, thanks to you two I will be throwing away my Moral Code, and become The Monster, that people feared I might become, that I myself feared I would become. I will use every resource at my disposal, every avenue that I can to locate and track you down. I WILL find you eventually, and I WILL kill you in the most painful way possible that I can think of. The ONLY way to stop me is to have me killed. But hey, that should be a walk in the park for you right? I mean I am just one disgruntled Marine, what is one more life compared to the MILLIONS of LIVES you just dismissed by making Captain America a Hydra Agent ALL ALONG. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING you say will erase what you have done, HYDRA was ALWAYS SYNOMOUS with NAZIS. You CANNOT seperate the two. So enjoy your “Fame” while you are able to still draw breath. It’s just a matter of time before I find you.

-J___ E____
USMC Disabled Veteran

**gorgon**

Nutjobs aside, I'm sure Marvel isn't exactly upset that people are talking about them like this, and that this thing has stolen some of the thunder from the much bigger stuff going on in the DC books right now.

"No such thing as bad publicity" has ruined brands, mind you.

But I imagine this Hydra thing will be retconned or resolved soon enough so that the public can go back to not caring about Captain America comic books.

**Oldmike**

I think part of the problem is in the new comic Hydra is played as a conservative patriotic group at lest if the red skull speech I saw is real(and it was a good speech) it's at the end of this you see the hail hydra. Cap has never been for big government control but freedom that's why he gets digs for being librarian.

Me I am done with marvel and Disney have been for like a year
I don't like politics pushed in entertainment more so if it's one sided.

**Asterios**

Compel wrote:
Yeah, it was trending for a while on Twitter as well. It's quite a big 'thing' overall.

This article - Fandom is Broken touches on it a bit too. I have mixed feelings about the article. EG It's not "entitlement" to say, "I don't like this and therefore I'm not going to buy it, but if you did this, I would like it and therefore buy it."

On the other hand, this is downright freaking scary.

J___ E____ wrote:As a Former Active Duty US Marine and a Disabled Veteran, I want you to know that when I joined the Marines back in 95’ I did so under a strict Code of Ethics. Truth, Honor and Justice. This Code was inspired by Steve Rogers. I knew I could never be the person he was, I just wasn’t mentally built for it, but it gave me something to strive for. Yes, the Character of Stever Rogers AKA Captain America is a fictional one, but it is also one that emboydies what the Idea Human Being, not just American should strive to be. Steve Rogers never claimed to be perfect, but he tried his best every day to do the right thing no matter what.

For the last 21 years I have modeled my own Moral Code after the belief that I would NEVER tell a Lie, No matter the consequences. There is no such thing as “a little white lie”. My Honesty, and My Honor was everything to me. It kept me from becoming the Monster that I could have easily become. Thanks to your idiocy and disregard for what an American Symbol stood for, you have made it “OK” to disregard those Ideals. It apperantly is ok to Lie, Cheat, Steal and Murder, because feth It, who cares right? Steve Rogers aka Captain American has been doing it for 75 YEARS.

Fine, congradulations, you have made the last 21 years of my life and the Code I lived by, the hardships I endured because I refused to sacrifice that Code MEANINGLESS. You have disgraced what Joe Simon and Jack Kirby had the character stand for. The whole point of that Character was to showcase the potential of what human beings could be. Dispite the Odds stacked against them.

So, thanks to you two I will be throwing away my Moral Code, and become The Monster, that people feared I might become, that I myself feared I would become. I will use every resource at my disposal, every avenue that I can to locate and track you down. I WILL find you eventually, and I WILL kill you in the most painful way possible that I can think of. The ONLY way to stop me is to have me killed. But hey, that should be a walk in the park for you right? I mean I am just one disgruntled Marine, what is one more life compared to the MILLIONS of LIVES you just dismissed by making Captain America a Hydra Agent ALL ALONG. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING you say will erase what you have done, HYDRA was ALWAYS SYNOMOUS with NAZIS. You CANNOT seperate the two. So enjoy your “Fame” while you are able to still draw breath. It’s just a matter of time before I find you.

-J___ E____
USMC Disabled Veteran

that is scary, also wonder how many of those people want Cap to have a boyfriend now that he is associated with evil incarnate?

Oldmike wrote:
I think part of the problem is in the new comic Hydra is played as a conservative patriotic group at lest if the red skull speech I saw is real(and it was a good speech) it's at the end of this you see the hail hydra. Cap has never been for big government control but freedom that's why he gets digs for being librarian.

Me I am done with marvel and Disney have been for like a year
I don't like politics pushed in entertainment more so if it's one sided.

yeah you can see they are making Hydra look like Trump, it was stated the people on the new Cap book are very political, and this is another issue with me, I read Comics to get away from real world politics and here they are shoving their version down our throats.