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Chapter master
10 terminators, 2 missile launchers.

I really like the models but is it worth it? I plan on using imperial fists chapter tactics (reroll ones on Bolters) and deep strike them. Is it worth it? Is it semi competitive?

Again I really like terminators.

Terminators are not currently competitive. They don't survive the amount of shots flying around, and they don't have the offensive output to be worth it.

Swap them for assault ones maybe?

Sheilds give better inv save, hammers kill nigh anything and the some claws to counter haords?

Fun but not competive.

So no one thinks the 20 Bolter rolls with the reroll and the 2 missile launchers is good?

It's a shame they are really cool looking models too.

usmcmidn wrote:
So no one thinks the 20 Bolter rolls with the reroll and the 2 missile launchers is good?

It's a shame they are really cool looking models too.

The bolters might as well be popguns in 7th ed. Don't let the "bolters are okay!" crowd fool you. Everyone fielding strong lists avoid the T3 squishes as much as possible. It's all about meqs or better.

usmcmidn wrote:
So no one thinks the 20 Bolter rolls with the reroll and the 2 missile launchers is good?

It's a shame they are really cool looking models too.

20 twin linked bolter shots vs a riptide (assuming that it's IA scattered off and didn't just vapourise the entire squad at the end of your movement phase) is (20 * 4/6) + (20 * 2/6 * 4/6) = 17.77 hits is 17.77 * 1/6 = 2.96 wounds is 0.49 unsaved wounds before fnp (0.32 after)
4 cyclone missiles vs a riptide is 4 * 4/6 = 2.66 hits is 2.66 * 5/6 = 2.22 wounds is 2.22 * 1/6 = 0.37 unsaved wounds before fnp (0.24 after)

Congrats, you've spent ~500 points on terminators and failed to do a single wound against a common monstrous creature.

"But Drasius you handsome devil, I wouldn't be so silly to target a riptide, I'd go after something squishy like scatbikes!"

OK. 17.77 hits, 8.88 wounds, 2.96 unsaved wounds from the stormbolters
2.66 hits, 2.22 wounds, 1.11 wounds if they jink.

Huzzah, you've killed 4 scatbikes. Shame the other 11 are going to mow you down in conjuntion with their warp spider friends.

"No you tactical genius, squishier, like guardsmen! Haha, no armour saves against my bolters!"

OK, 17.77 hits, 11.84 wounds, they gtg behind the aegis line for a 2+ cover save, 1.97 unsaved wounds.
4 frag missiles, the guardsmen have bunched up in b2b to fit behind their aegis and you get ~20 hits (very generous). That's 1.66 wounds.

Huzzah, you've killed 4 guardsmen. But at least you made them gtg, right? Nope, orders will let them stand straight back up again in their turn and plasmagun your face off.

"But, but I was super clever and they don't have an aegis to hide behind"

OK, 17.77 hits, 11.84 wounds, they gtg 6+ cover save because why not, 9.86 unsaved wounds.
4 krak missiles, the guardsmen have spread out to try and make you mishap and keep you away from their tanks so frag's not going to get more than 4-6 hits. That's 2.66 hits, 2.22 wounds, 1.85 unsaved wounds.

Awesome, you killed 12 guardsmen.
You spent 500 points to kill 12 guardsmen possibly on turn 4 after sitting around in reserves for 3 turns.

"Well, OK, yeah, but I'm going to kill 12 guardsmen a turn and I'm always going to come in on turn 2 and never mishap and every game is going to go to turn 7 and I'm never going to be tarpitted by 50 conscripts with a priest and I'm never going to fail a save, never ever no Sir!"

OK. 12 * 6 = 72 Guardsmen. That's 7 squads, plus a plasma gun and auto cannon for each. That's (7*50 + 7*15 + 7*10) = 525 points. How much did your terminator unit cost again?

I've always been intrigued by Grey Knights terminators running solo - seems a bit more oriented towards durability rather than damage output, and Force helps a lot.

Are the solo termies still Troops?

Grey Knights still melt against mobile shooting enemies. Their shooting output is just so poor for 7th ed lists. Grey Knights are awesome at punching out other marines, though. Ah, the irony. My BA spend the whole game running for their lives. But I still win a lot because they can't catch me.

Martel732 wrote:
Grey Knights still melt against mobile shooting enemies. Their shooting output is just so poor for 7th ed lists. Grey Knights are awesome at punching out other marines, though. Ah, the irony. My BA spend the whole game running for their lives. But I still win a lot because they can't catch me.

In the last game I played vs. GKs, the GK player was nearly tabled by the end of it (and my list wasn't even as "optimized" as it is now). Sternguard hellfire ammunition makes relatively short work of dreadknights, and plasma cannons, though not normally "competitive," put in work vs. gray knights terminators.

You are playing a dangerous game rely in on poison to take down DKs. A hot streak of 2+ saves gets your expensive sternguard assaulted and mulched. It's much safer to fire 2X grav biker squads with the DC waiting in the wings.

usmcmidn wrote:
Chapter master
10 terminators, 2 missile launchers.

I really like the models but is it worth it? I plan on using imperial fists chapter tactics (reroll ones on Bolters) and deep strike them. Is it worth it? Is it semi competitive?

Again I really like terminators.

You can probably get a bit more juice out of them with the new psychic powers, almost any unit becomes viable with enough psychic support.

Veil of Time (reroll saves) and the mobility tricks from the new supplement would be the most useful. Bolters might not do much against a big target, but sticking a few Power Fists on a Riptide is another story. And Electrodisplacement can get your Terminators into CC by T1 or T2.

If you really want to run the Terminators, look the triple Stormraven formation available to Blood Angels. They can help get a pinpoint deep strike drop and assault on the turn the Terminators/Chapter Master land. IIRC, the triple Stormraven formation runs 1050 points, so you could take a BA CAD for the Chapter Master, Terminators and two Troops of your choice. Should fit within an 1850 point army.

terminators can take combi weapons, if you want to put out some firepower then take 10 terminators with 2 missiles and 8 combi-plasmas. At least they'll pack a punch for that one turn lol

Only chaos terminators can take combi weapons. And they don't get cyclone missiles or assault cannons. Oh yes. I forgot about space wolf squad leaders in terminator armor who can take combi stuff

I think saying Terminators are for fun is a trap. Watching them get absolutely wrecked for their points and rarely accomplishing anything is not fun, even in a non competitive environment.

Last time I ran them, it was for fun against Tau, out of 25 terminators(most using shields, 3 squads rode in pods, 1 squad was void claws so they came down turn 1 also), only 1 squad made it into melee and killed some fire warriors. Yay, fun.

EDIT: Space Wolves for what it's worth.

 Drasius wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
So no one thinks the 20 Bolter rolls with the reroll and the 2 missile launchers is good?

It's a shame they are really cool looking models too.

20 twin linked bolter shots vs a riptide (assuming that it's IA scattered off and didn't just vapourise the entire squad at the end of your movement phase) is (20 * 4/6) + (20 * 2/6 * 4/6) = 17.77 hits is 17.77 * 1/6 = 2.96 wounds is 0.49 unsaved wounds before fnp (0.32 after)
4 cyclone missiles vs a riptide is 4 * 4/6 = 2.66 hits is 2.66 * 5/6 = 2.22 wounds is 2.22 * 1/6 = 0.37 unsaved wounds before fnp (0.24 after)

Congrats, you've spent ~500 points on terminators and failed to do a single wound against a common monstrous creature.

"But Drasius you handsome devil, I wouldn't be so silly to target a riptide, I'd go after something squishy like scatbikes!"

OK. 17.77 hits, 8.88 wounds, 2.96 unsaved wounds from the stormbolters
2.66 hits, 2.22 wounds, 1.11 wounds if they jink.

Huzzah, you've killed 4 scatbikes. Shame the other 11 are going to mow you down in conjuntion with their warp spider friends.

"No you tactical genius, squishier, like guardsmen! Haha, no armour saves against my bolters!"

OK, 17.77 hits, 11.84 wounds, they gtg behind the aegis line for a 2+ cover save, 1.97 unsaved wounds.
4 frag missiles, the guardsmen have bunched up in b2b to fit behind their aegis and you get ~20 hits (very generous). That's 1.66 wounds.

Huzzah, you've killed 4 guardsmen. But at least you made them gtg, right? Nope, orders will let them stand straight back up again in their turn and plasmagun your face off.

"But, but I was super clever and they don't have an aegis to hide behind"

OK, 17.77 hits, 11.84 wounds, they gtg 6+ cover save because why not, 9.86 unsaved wounds.
4 krak missiles, the guardsmen have spread out to try and make you mishap and keep you away from their tanks so frag's not going to get more than 4-6 hits. That's 2.66 hits, 2.22 wounds, 1.85 unsaved wounds.

Awesome, you killed 12 guardsmen.
You spent 500 points to kill 12 guardsmen possibly on turn 4 after sitting around in reserves for 3 turns.

"Well, OK, yeah, but I'm going to kill 12 guardsmen a turn and I'm always going to come in on turn 2 and never mishap and every game is going to go to turn 7 and I'm never going to be tarpitted by 50 conscripts with a priest and I'm never going to fail a save, never ever no Sir!"

OK. 12 * 6 = 72 Guardsmen. That's 7 squads, plus a plasma gun and auto cannon for each. That's (7*50 + 7*15 + 7*10) = 525 points. How much did your terminator unit cost again?

You were channeling a bit of Yahtzee again weren't you?

As for the OP, if you're running Imperial Fist tactics, then I would highly recommend Lysander. The dude just does not give a damn about anything. Not very competitive, but nonetheless hilarious to watch him shrug off damn near everything thrown at him.

I'm curious if anyone has ran 10 Terminators with success!

Try out assault termies charging from deepstrike, there's more info in the BA thread.

Yoyoyo wrote:
Try out assault termies charging from deepstrike, there's more info in the BA thread.

They can assault after deep striking?

usmcmidn wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Try out assault termies charging from deepstrike, there's more info in the BA thread.

They can assault after deep striking?

In a specific Blood Angels formation. There are two downsides or just one.
1. The downside (or upside) is that you need 3 squads minimum. If you only wanted 1-2 squads, it can be a tax because:
2. Blood Angels terminators are worse off cost wise. They are still at 40 points, and therefore trying to shave points with having a couple of Lightning Claws Terminators feels almost mandatory, compared to the other Loyalists that can get a squad with 3 TH for 205 compared to 215. That doesn't seem like much but that's 30 points in three squads that could be saved.

The formation is in the new Angel's Blade supplement book.

It's called the Archangels Orbital Intervention Force

It consists of 3x Terminator squads in any combination, I would likely go with 1x "Shooty" terminator squad and 2x Assault Terminator squads.

They all must start in reserves and all come in from reserves on one roll (One roll for the entire formation, all 3 squads).
On the turn they land, any shooty terminators can shoot twice, meaning your 5 man squad shoots as much as a 10 man squad the turn it arrives.
The Assault Terminators may charge after deep striking however it is a disordered charge, meaning no charging bonuses, however rolling 3x TH & SS + 2x LC in a 5 man squad still nets you 6x LC and 6x TH attacks. should be enough to put a few dents into a target of opportunity.

Hopefully that helps. I will mention that you cannot attach a character to this unit and deep strike them, however if your character happens to be close enough to move into coherency with the terminators after they land it could join them for their subsequent shooting and charges.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
The formation is in the new Angel's Blade supplement book.

It's called the Archangels Orbital Intervention Force

It consists of 3x Terminator squads in any combination, I would likely go with 1x "Shooty" terminator squad and 2x Assault Terminator squads.

They all must start in reserves and all come in from reserves on one roll (One roll for the entire formation, all 3 squads).
On the turn they land, any shooty terminators can shoot twice, meaning your 5 man squad shoots as much as a 10 man squad the turn it arrives.
The Assault Terminators may charge after deep striking however it is a disordered charge, meaning no charging bonuses, however rolling 3x TH & SS + 2x LC in a 5 man squad still nets you 6x LC and 6x TH attacks. should be enough to put a few dents into a target of opportunity.

Hopefully that helps. I will mention that you cannot attach a character to this unit and deep strike them, however if your character happens to be close enough to move into coherency with the terminators after they land it could join them for their subsequent shooting and charges.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

The shooting squad is bad even with the bonus. Absolutely do not take Tactical Terminators even in this formation.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The shooting squad is bad even with the bonus. Absolutely do not take Tactical Terminators even in this formation.

He mentioned he wanted shooty Terminators with Cyclone Launchers because he thought the models were cool. I included them in the example because he wants them and, while they're not the best, it is his army and he should be able to run them if he wants to.

Just throwing that out there. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Thanks for the replies... my squad of 10 shooty terminators consists of 400 points. I have 2 cyclone missile launchers in them and I field a chapter master too in them.

Any suggestions on alternate units for 400 points? Or would the 10 terminators be okay if I used them correctly?

If you're asking strictly competitively, there are numerous better uses of 400 points than terminators. Imperial Knights, librarius conclave, anything with the words "grav cannon" on it, biker squads with a meanie Indy character, almost anything podding in...the list goes on.

It's cool if you want to use them. Unless you have some brutal gaming rules at your lgs, there's no downside to losing a game. Just realize that by taking units that are badly costed/sucky you are in fact setting yourself up to start the game off already at a disadvantage.

With that in mind, I'd make them all cataphractii because the models are badass, the better invuln makes them feel a bit more sturdy, and combi-bolters makes them feel like they're a bit more elite in shooting. I mean, it's just bolter rounds so it's not going to do anything, but it feels good to see your super-elites hit 90% accuracy.

I think I am going to switch them with the Cataphractii... more survivable.

The problem isn't that they won't survive well enough for their points cost, it's that they lack enough damage output to really put the hurt on your opponent, and they lack enough mobility to get where they need to go. 30 Power Fist attacks on the charge isn't bad at all, but in this era of T5 as the norm for tough units, FNP and invulns on everything, and high WS everywhere, that's not going to go nearly as far as it used to. Plus, I1 means that most dedicated assault units are going to hit before you.
A Juggerlord costs something like 150 points, will always get the charge on you, and will kill 4 Terminators by himself. Your remaining 6 Terminators will get 6 hits, 5 wounds, and after his 4++ Invuln won't even kill the Juggerlord - He'll kill 3 more terminators in the next Assault phase before you take him down. (And this is a 150-point model going head-to-head with 400 points of Termies. Give him 250pts of Hounds, and you've got a unit that isn't even optimized to fight Termies, kicking those Termies up and down the street.)

I'm a huge deathwing fan and have tried running masses of termis like that plenty of times. Similar because they have twin linked on first turn in, and it is not competitive at all. It is also very demoralizing when your expensive pretties get plucked off the board the turn after they come in

If you want terminators you should think Blood Angels, Grey Knights, CSM or Dark Angels.

Dark Angels can take assault and shooting terminator in same squad, Grey Knight have psychic troop terminators. Blood Angels have formations like Archangels Orbital Intervention Force and CSM have combibolters, Scarab Occult Terminators, troop terminators and some formations.

10 Terminators and a Chapter Master (presumably in Terminator armour) is at absolute minimum 510pts. The basic problem with trying to do this is that there is absolutely no way for a slow melee unit to be worth 510pts since throwing that at anything in the game is horrendous overkill.

There are ways to play a Terminator army, but they almost always involve lower-base-price Terminators (CSM, GK), guns, and target saturation, or playing 30k where there are scarier Terminators, IC Apothecaries, no Wraithknights, unit costs set up to make large squads cheaper than multiple small squads, and targets worth dumping 500+pts into a deathstar unit to fight.

My current theory for the Terminator army of choice is 30k Death Guard under Pride of the Legion. Your Troops are 45pt two-Wound Terminators with Shred hand flamers and S5/AP2 attacks at I3 (and that come in two-model minimum squads), your Heavy Support are 35pt/model Cataphractii (4+ Invul) with automatic grenade launchers.