Another shooting, another riot... this time in Milwaukee.

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**whembly**

Milwaukee reeling after deadly police shooting

Milwaukee, Wisconsin (CNN)A deadly shooting of an armed man by Milwaukee police has stirred anger, fear and disbelief as authorities restore calm in the city after a night of violent protest.

Protesters burned several stores and threw rocks at police Saturday night on the city's north side, leaving one officer injured and three protesters arrested. Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett said protesters had been using social media to draw more demonstrators.

Local officials planned to meet with church and community leaders Sunday to discuss ways to move forward.

"I never thought I would see my own city in a state of unrest and a potential riot," a resident told CNN affiliate WDJT.

It all started Saturday afternoon, when a pair of police officers stopped two people driving through the north-side neighborhood, police said. That led to a foot chase between the people in the car and police, which ended when an officer shot one of the two -- a 23-year-old man who was armed with a handgun, authorities said.

The police officer "ordered that individual to drop his gun, the individual did not drop his gun," Barrett said during a news conference later in the day. "He had the gun with him and the officer fired several times."

The man died at the scene. It was unclear Sunday morning whether the second occupant of the car was in police custody. The officer who fired the fatal shots was not injured and will be placed on administrative duty during an investigation.

The officer who fired the deadly shots is 24 years old and has six years of service with the Milwaukee Police Department -- three as an officer. Police provided no further details on the identities of the officer or the occupants of the car.

The officer was wearing a body camera at the time of the shooting, Barrett said.

"This is a neighborhood that has unfortunately been affected by violence in the recent past," Barrett said. The shooting occurred near the same place where a double homicide happened on August 9. In that incident a man was shot dead and another was fatally stabbed, police said.

City Alderman Khalif Rainey said the area has been a "powder keg" for potential violence throughout the summer.

"What happened tonight may not have been right and I am not justifying that but no one can deny the fact that there are problems, racial problems in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, that need to be rectified," Rainey said. "This community of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, has become the worst place to live for African Americans in the entire country."

Rainey said Saturday's violence was a byproduct of inequities, injustice, unemployment and under-education.

"Something has to be done to address these issues," he said. "The black people of Milwaukee are tired, they are tired of living under this oppression, this is their life."
Go home, mayor pleads

As the chaos escalated Saturday, the mayor pleaded with protesters to end their demonstrations.

"If you love your son, if you love your daughter, text them, call them, pull them by the ears and get them home. Get them home right now before more damage is done," the mayor said.
"I know this neighborhood very, very well. And there are a lot of really really good people who live in this area -- in the Sherman Park area, who can't stand this violence."

At 3:20 a.m. Sunday, police tweeted they were restoring order and "reducing deployments."

Police: Suspect had stolen gun
The unidentified suspect was shot twice, in the arm and chest, the mayor said. The handgun he carried had been stolen during a burglary in nearby Waukesha in March, according to police.

"The victim of that burglary reported 500 rounds of ammunition were also stolen with the handgun," police said.

Any evidence from the body camera video will likely become a key part of the investigation, said CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander.

"We're going to see over the next number of hours and the next number of days what information [investigators] feel comfortable releasing to the public, Alexander said. "It think it's going to be essentially important to get out as much of that video, as long as it doesn't jeopardize the integrity of the investigation."

By state law, the Wisconsin Department of Justice will lead the investigation.

So... yeah... Ferguson Effect is still a thing...

**TheCustomLime**

Wow. What were the police supposed to do in this case? Give the man a cookie,a pat on the back and send him on his merry way? This is getting ridiculous.

**Relapse**

Looks like the shooting was justified, but we'll see what the investigation turns up.

**curran12**

Justified shooting is possible, but this is what happens when you have so much bad blood between police and public. The bridges have been burned.

**Breotan**

Came across this interview on Youtube. There is some SERIOUS propaganda being shoveled by this guy. Sad thing is, it looks like he actually believes what he's saying.

**d-usa**

I think there is always room to make sure that there was nothing shady going on after any officer involved shooting, and even a shooting like this has the potential to have been a "bad" shooting.

But unless there is something out there that hasn't hit the news yet, this response seems very extreme.

**jhe90**

Everything is a hair triggered system...

People will riot with a moments notice.
Thing is they only destroy there own neiberhoods...

**Spetulhu**

Seeing as the suspect who got shot had a stolen handgun with him maybe that was reason enough for him to decide running was the thing. Whether the shooting was justified or not is hard to say before seeing the body cam material. Just having a gun isn't IMO reason enough to get shot, pointing it at the police would be a very good reason.

**djones520**

Sounds like he was repeatedly told to drop the weapon, and refused to, and that is when they shot him.

If they were telling him to drop it, then it's likely because he was holding it. Sounds like a good shoot to me, but we'll have to wait and see.

Either way, this type of response is in no way warranted, even were it another bad shoot. Destroying your own neighborhood does absolutely nothing to help you, or the issue.

**jhe90**

djones520 wrote:
Sounds like he was repeatedly told to drop the weapon, and refused to, and that is when they shot him.

If they were telling him to drop it, then it's likely because he was holding it. Sounds like a good shoot to me, but we'll have to wait and see.

Either way, this type of response is in no way warranted, even were it another bad shoot. Destroying your own neighborhood does absolutely nothing to help you, or the issue.

Refusing to drop a firearm. Every idiot knows you will get shot .
Darwin wins again.

**djones520**

The Mayor said the firearm had 23 rounds in it.

Anyone know what type of handgun carries that much ammunition? Would it be a .22?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, seems the National Guard has been called in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/us/violent-crowd-confronts-police-in-milwaukee-after-fatal-shooting.html?_r=0

Watched the video at the link... what a mess...

**Spetulhu**

djones520 wrote:
The Mayor said the firearm had 23 rounds in it. Anyone know what type of handgun carries that much ammunition? Would it be a .22?

Or a 9mm with a very large magazine - IIRC some Glock mags could hold even 33 rounds, but they will stick out.

**malamis**

An UZI isn't beyond the realm of possibility, and would certainly prompt a drastic reaction on sight.

**squidhills**

malamis wrote:
An UZI isn't beyond the realm of possibility, and would certainly prompt a drastic reaction on sight.

The police wouldn't report that the suspect had a "handgun" if he was carrying an UZI. They would say either an "automatic weapon" if they wanted to vague things up for the media, or a "submachinegun" if they wanted to be accurate. In either case, if the suspect had an UZI, the police would be making sure that every media outlet knew that he was carrying something much, much scarier than a handgun. In this instance, the police have reported a handgun and that it had 23 rounds of ammunition in it, so my money is on a 9mm semi-automatic (possibly a Glock, but other companies make pistols, too) with an extended magazine.

**cuda1179**

From what is in my collection....

Glcok with extended mag
Any MAC-10 or MAC-11 clone
Uzi
Springfield XDM or XD with extended mag
Smith and Wesson M&P with extended mag
Keltec PLR
Any Pistol AK or AR variant
Pistol version of a Ruger 10-22
Excel arms x-22

Really, anything with an extended mag here. Unless it's a revolver it's not out of the question.

On another note, if you want to express your outrage at a police shooting, not only do you not want to tear down your own neighborhood, but how about you back someone that's obviously not guilty as heck and was basically asking to get shot? Some criminal low-life, gun wielding, thug isn't exactly the best poster child to back.

**jhe90**

One less low life on the streets.

If you stole a gun, your obviously up to no good!

**Kilkrazy**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Wow. What were the police supposed to do in this case? Give the man a cookie,a pat on the back and send him on his merry way? This is getting ridiculous.

Maybe that would be better than just shooting him.

We don't know the chain of circumstances so let's not prejudge it. But to go from a traffic stop of some kind to shooting someone is quite a leap.

Obviously if the police stopped the car because it had been identified as being driven by a potentially violent terrorist suspect then it puts a different light on things, but maybe they stopped it for a defective brake light.

**LordofHats**

At this point the chain of circumstances is going to matter less and less. To some, too many unarmed people have been shot by the police, the police have planted evidence too many times, and there's been enough obfuscation of the truth that the truth no longer matters because it is not discernable from the fiction. The anger is there, and rather than address it authorities across the US have treated it like a child's temper tantrum (which it kind of is, but talking down to angry mobs rarely gets angry mobs to disperse in my experience

)

**Kilkrazy**

I agree with your points, however I think it is worth pointing out the "chain of circumstances" argument because there appears to be a thread of logic that goes:

Angry mobs are bad, therefore people who form them are bad, and the people they support are bad, so the guy the police shot was bad, and the police were right to shoot him.

I think the logic should begin with "police shooting people is bad, what caused them to do it this time?" There needs to be a proper investigation.

**LordofHats**

Agreed.

**whembly**

Kilkrazy wrote:

I think the logic should begin with "police shooting people is bad, what caused them to do it this time?" There needs to be a proper investigation.

No.

The starting logic should be: What happened?

If it comes out that the police shooting was justified, then the 'police shooting people is bad' is the wrong place to start.

**Kilkrazy**

No. It's bad for the police to shoot people.

**whembly**

Kilkrazy wrote:
No. It's bad for the police to shoot people.

In all cases? Seems so absolute.

**LordofHats**

whembly wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
No. It's bad for the police to shoot people.

In all cases? Seems so absolute.

The term "necessary evil" comes to mind. Something can be justified, and still be bad or undesirable.

I think people shooting other people is generally undesirable (even if justifiable), especially when the people doing the shooting are civil servants who need the trust of the citizenry to effectively do their job.

**Kilkrazy**

Obviously we can construct a scenario in which the police shoot someone who is about to set off a bomb which will kill lots of people, or something. That doesn't make shooting him "good". It makes it the lesser of two evils.

Murder is the worst crime. Killing people is the last resort.

Do you want your police to go about the neighourhood shooting people? Of course not. So start from the position that the police shooting people is bad.

**Relapse**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Obviously we can construct a scenario in which the police shoot someone who is about to set off a bomb which will kill lots of people, or something. That doesn't make shooting him "good". It makes it the lesser of two evils.

Murder is the worst crime. Killing people is the last resort.

Do you want your police to go about the neighourhood shooting people? Of course not. So start from the position that the police shooting people is bad.

On the other hand, I don't want people going around the neighborhood shooting police, either, as seems to be the style these days. It will be interesting to find out what the body cam showed, one way or the other. If it turns out like the incident that was caught on camera at the filling station a few months back, there's nothing to condemn about the police actions.

**whembly**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Obviously we can construct a scenario in which the police shoot someone who is about to set off a bomb which will kill lots of people, or something. That doesn't make shooting him "good". It makes it the lesser of two evils.

Murder is the worst crime. Killing people is the last resort.

Do you want your police to go about the neighourhood shooting people? Of course not. So start from the position that the police shooting people is bad.

Again... I disagree from that premise because it implies that the police need to do something different. Rather than assesing the root cause of the situation.

In other words, justified killing is simply that... justified.

**LordofHats**

That something has to be/is justified would imply that it is not inherently good of itself. KK's point would seem to be that we should recognize such acts as such.

**Tannhauser42**

Relapse wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Obviously we can construct a scenario in which the police shoot someone who is about to set off a bomb which will kill lots of people, or something. That doesn't make shooting him "good". It makes it the lesser of two evils.

Murder is the worst crime. Killing people is the last resort.

Do you want your police to go about the neighourhood shooting people? Of course not. So start from the position that the police shooting people is bad.

On the other hand, I don't want people going around the neighborhood shooting police, either, as seems to be the style these days. It will be interesting to find out what the body cam showed, one way or the other. If it turns out like the incident that was caught on camera at the filling station a few months back, there's nothing to condemn about the police actions.

Ultimately, though, will it really matter? The cam could show the other guy firing off a dozen rounds at the cops before he got shot, and it won't make much of a difference. The riot has already happened, stores burned, and the damage done, What does truth matter in the face of what people already want to believe?

**NinthMusketeer**

The nation's police earned this. There have been many cases of unjustified cops-killing-civilians where no punishment was issued out and nothing changed. People have been given no reason to respond rationally so we shouldn't be surprised that they aren't. If the police had raised this whole issue a year ago as a problem to be addressed and had since been going over research, testimony, and generally making a effort to improve things then the public wouldn't react this way.

Now obviously the situation is not that clear cut and there are shades of grey, but I think the point I'm trying to make is clear. They brought this on themselves.