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Titanic sank due to enormous uncontrollable fire, not iceberg, experts claim
Rarely seen images of the Titanic before it left Southampton have furthered researchers’ theory that a fire may have been the root cause of the 1912 disaster
The sinking of the RMS Titanic may have been caused by an enormous fire on board, not by hitting an iceberg in the North Atlantic, experts have claimed, as new evidence has been published to support the theory.
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GO TO More than 1,500 passengers lost their lives when the Titanic sank on route to New York from Southampton in April 1912.
While the cause of the disaster has long been attributed to the iceberg, fresh evidence has surfaced of a fire in the ship’s hull, which researchers say burned unnoticed for almost three weeks leading up to the collision.
While experts have previously acknowledged the theory of a fire on board, new analysis of rarely seen photographs has prompted researchers to blame the fire as the primary cause of the ship’s demise.
Irish Journalist Senan Molony, who has spent more than 30 years researching the sinking of the Titanic, studied photographs taken by the ship’s chief electrical engineers before it left Belfast shipyard.
Mr Molony said he was able to identify 30-foot-long black marks along the front right-hand side of the hull, just behind where the ship’s lining was pierced by the iceberg.
He said: “We are looking at the exact area where the iceberg stuck, and we appear to have a weakness or damage to the hull in that specific place, before she even left Belfast”.
Experts subsequently confirmed the marks were likely to have been caused by a fire started in a three-storey high fuel store behind one of the ship’s boiler rooms.
A team of 12 men attempted to put out the flames, but it was too large to control, reaching temperatures of up to 1000 degrees Celsius.
Subsequently, when the Titanic struck ice, the steel hull was weak enough for the ship’s lining to be torn open.
Officers on board were reportedly under strict instruction from J Bruce Ismay, president of the company that built the Titanic, not to mention the fire to any of the ship’s 2,500 passengers.
Presenting his research in a Channel 4 documentary, Titanic: The New Evidence, broadcast on New Year’s Day, Mr Molony also claims the ship was reversed into its berth in Southampton to prevent passengers from seeing damage made to the side of the ship by the ongoing fire.
Mr Molony said: “The official Titanic inquiry branded [the sinking] as an act of God. This isn’t a simple story of colliding with an iceberg and sinking.
“It’s a perfect storm of extraordinary factors coming together: fire, ice and criminal negligence.
“Nobody has investigated these marks before. It totally changes the narrative. We have metallurgy experts telling us that when you get that level of temperature against steel it makes it brittle, and reduces its strength by up to 75 per cent.
“The fire was known about, but it was played down. She should never have been put to sea.”
In 2008, Ray Boston, an expert with more than 20 years of research into the Titanic’s journey, said he believed the coal fire began during speed trials as much as 10 days prior to the ship leaving Southampton.
He said the fire had potential to cause “serious explosions” below decks before it would reach New York.
An inquiry into the disaster, presented to Parliament in 1912, described the ship as travelling at “high speed” through dangerous icy waters, giving the crew little opportunity to avoid the fatal collision.
..is anything we know true ?!
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Interesting. I remember when studying materials engineering during my undergraduate the lecturer talking about how the steel the Titanic was made from had a high ductile-to-brittle transition temperature meaning that the hull was less able to absorb the energy of an iceberg impact and was pierced instead. Though a lot of ships back then probably were made from similar steel.
Having said all that, even a ship with the best steel and manufacturing of the time, vs. ICEBERG sounds like its not going to make it.
With my incredible level of expertise (based on rubber ducky races in the bath tub and having watched Titanic at least twice), I can safely say its highly unlikely any single hulled tanker of the time could have survived such an incident.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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kronk wrote: Fun Fact: The pools on the Titanic are still full.
Kate Winslet in pool...oh my...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Having said all that, even a ship with the best steel and manufacturing of the time, vs. ICEBERG sounds like its not going to make it.
With my incredible level of expertise (based on rubber ducky races in the bath tub and having watched Titanic at least twice), I can safely say its highly unlikely any single hulled tanker of the time could have survived such an incident.
I don't think the point was the ship would have survived, I think it was more the fact that had the bulkhead not burst (as a result of it being damaged from the fire) then the Titanic would have stayed afloat long enough for the Carpathia to pick up passengers - 1500 people wouldn't have died
If you're UK based and you haven't seen the documentary (Channel 4 I think) then it is very interesting. If not I'm sure it will be out on Youtube in a matter of weeks
I can't tell from the article. Is this saying there was an ongoing fire at the time the iceberg hit, or there was a fire that was put out?
An ongoing fire near the fuel bins that is not dealt with sounds like reckless endangerment.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Is this saying there was an ongoing fire at the time the iceberg hit, or there was a fire that was put out? An ongoing fire near the fuel bins that is not dealt with sounds like reckless endangerment.
IIRC the fire was IN a fuel bin - it wasn't an open inferno but slow smoldering among the coals.
And at this time it was seen as neither reckless nor endangerment, just something that happens. The best way to put out that fire is to empty the fuel bin so why waste it when you can go full speed instead?
A quick googling came up with discussions and articles from the early 2000's about slow burning fires on the Titanic, so I guess it's not really a new story in that sense, lol.
Frazzled wrote: I can't tell from the article. Is this saying there was an ongoing fire at the time the iceberg hit, or there was a fire that was put out?
An ongoing fire near the fuel bins that is not dealt with sounds like reckless endangerment.
One theory I just found on google for the high speed was that it was standard procedure for dealing with a coal fire is to simply shovel it in to the boiler faster and when they reach the fire, shovel the smouldering coal in to the boiler to get rid of it.
Anthracite fires can be extremely difficult to put out once started. Ref the Centralia mine fire which has been burning since 1962 and is predicted to burn for the next 250 years or so:
Ah, I guess if there was already a fire they weren't worried about coal dust blowing the ship up.
That still seems screamingly unsafe,and a lot of standard procedures led to things like the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. But like I said, while not an expert I did stay at Holiday Inn once.
EDIT: I read the underlying article and thats interesting, that coal fires were not uncommon. I would think the opposite.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/03 15:40:27
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
There is always someone trying to prove a new theory.
Have you heard the one where the Titanic was switched with the Olympic? The idea being that the compromised ship was a greater risk and had higher insurance, so by switching the names the ship at most risk of sinking, Olympic, sailed under Titanic's cheaper insurance cover. There's books and websites dedicated to counting the portholes on the two ships but the evidence is pretty thin.
Frazzled wrote: I can't tell from the article. Is this saying there was an ongoing fire at the time the iceberg hit, or there was a fire that was put out?
An ongoing fire near the fuel bins that is not dealt with sounds like reckless endangerment.
It was 'put out' during the voyage, basically teams of men shoveled the burning coal in to the boilers.
filbert wrote: Anthracite fires can be extremely difficult to put out once started. Ref the Centralia mine fire which has been burning since 1962 and is predicted to burn for the next 250 years or so:
Aye. Once you get heat in the coal its very hard to put out.
It holds heat well. And once going its going for a while with ernough mass to keep it fueled.
Small amounts sure. But as scales grow so do the challenges in stopping the burning.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote:With my incredible level of expertise (based on rubber ducky races in the bath tub and having watched Titanic at least twice), I can safely say its highly unlikely any single hulled tanker of the time could have survived such an incident.
I have a similar level of expertise in the vagaries of 19th century shipbuilding, but I do wonder - was it typical for bulkheads to not go all the way to the ceiling? Perhaps that level of overbuilding (and expense) was reserved for warships.
kronk wrote:Fun Fact: The pools on the Titanic are still full.
What was a tragedy for all the people aboard was a miracle for the lobsters in the kitchen.
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Ouze wrote: I have a similar level of expertise in the vagaries of 19th century shipbuilding, but I do wonder - was it typical for bulkheads to not go all the way to the ceiling? Perhaps that level of overbuilding (and expense) was reserved for warships.
To the ceiling of each deck within the bulkhead, yeah, but not all the way to the top of the ship. The watertight section went above the waterline, but not by enough of a margin to keep everything watertight once the bow started to sink. It wasn't literally like water going over the top in an ice cube tray, it was water going through doors/stairs/etc up onto and through decks above the bulkhead level and then down into the adjacent compartments.
As for the reasons, cost, and having everything sealed to that level makes things really inconvenient for the passengers. Passengers aren't going to tolerate the level of stair-climbing and wandering the maze looking for the one door in the bulkhead that would be standard on a warship, so damage got bumped down the priority list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/10 06:08:57
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BigWaaagh wrote: Enough of this alt-history stuff, we all know it was the Kraken that brought down the Titanic!
It wasn't Electrolytes from the Eighth Dimension?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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