James Cameron & the Terminator rights

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**reds8n**

http://deadline.com/2017/01/terminator-james-cameron-deadpool-tim-miller-david-ellison-skydance-1201890848/

He’ll be back! James Cameron, who regains certain rights to his prized creation The Terminator in 2019, is godfathering a new iteration of the film that might finally get it right in drawing a close in the battle between humans and Skynet. Sources said that Cameron, whose copyright reversion happens 35 years after the release of the 1984 classic, is in early talks with Deadpool director and VFX wiz Tim Miller to direct a reboot and conclusion of one of cinema’s great science fiction tales.

David Ellison, whose Skydance co-financed Terminator Genisys, is bankrolling an exploratory effort that includes engaging some top-flight science fiction authors to find the movie creatively. Ellison still holds many Terminator rights, after his 2013 acquisition from sister and Annapurna principal Megan Ellison. She bought them in 2011 at Cannes for $20 million.

This is the latest development in an ongoing saga. Indeed, The Terminator might have endured the craziest road of any billion-dollar movie franchise, going back to when Cameron — who only had Piranha 2 under his belt as director — sold rights to his scripted project for $1 to producer Gale Anne Hurd, with the stipulation he could not be fired as director. The result was a 1984 sci-fi classic that launched his star and that of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Cameron came back and topped himself to write and direct he blockbuster Terminator 2: Judgment Day, but he washed his hands of the property after that. He mentioned to producers Mario Kassar and Andy Vajna his plans to buy the rights back from Carolco bankruptcy. They beat him to the punch, figuring he would still participate, but Cameron responded by walking away. He didn’t participate in the three films that followed, or the TV show The Sarah Connor Chronicles. The rights ended up with Pacificor, which paid $29.5 million, and Megan Ellison bought them after that company floundered.

Cameron has had zero involvement since then, and has largely been silent. The exception was on the last picture, Terminator Genisys. Perhaps because his old buddy and True Lies star Schwarzenegger had returned as the title character, Cameron was generous in his assessment, reportedly saying that the Alan Taylor-directed film had reinvigorated and created a renaissance for the franchise.

Audiences disagreed and the franchise seemed out of gas when the $155 million film grossed $440 million worldwide, but didn’t do nearly well enough in the U.S. Perhaps Cameron was foreshadowing his own future return to the franchise. Much the way that Sony used to rush Spider-Man movies to stay ahead of a rights-reversion ticking clock, it was always known that Cameron would regain clout eventually. It didn’t seem that Skydance or Paramount had much interest continuing the creative track of the last film, but real creative involvement by Cameron, even if he doesn’t direct, changes the whole ballgame. One only has to look at Aliens, True Lies, Titanic or Avatar to see what he is capable of creatively when he puts his mind to something.

I don’t know anything more than I’ve disclosed here, including whether they reboot the whole thing or pick up from where Cameron left off after the second film. I’ve heard the hope is for Miller to direct whatever they come up with. Cameron is booked for four Avatar sequels, to shoot two at a time. No comment from any of the involved parties.

**El Torro**

For me the thing holding back the Terminator franchise the most is an overreliance on Arnold Schwarzenegger. The series needs to find its own footing without him. At this stage a hard reboot (i.e. all previous films become void, which Genysis kind of did but didn't) is probably the healthiest thing that could happen.

I was one of the few people that actually enjoyed Terminator Salvation, and would have liked to see the planned trilogy come to life. It just seemed a logical next step, after Terminator 3 proved that just retreading the same formula doesn't work for this franchise.

I have my doubts that James Cameron will be able to revitalise the franchise. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong.

**RiTides**

The first half of Terminator Salvation was just plain awesome. If they could go with visuals like that, I would be all over it...

I really didn't like Genisys, though - I know it was a different group behind it, but I just found it really lacking.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Genisys I feel had a rough ride, which began with the trailer simply showing too much for most (me, I was intrigued by the 'well that's different. Must know what's going on!' angle).

But reading the reviews, it became readily apparent that many had already decided they didn't like it, and watched it to find out why.

For instance? EHRMAHGERD PLOT HOLES!!!! Except...they weren't plot holes - they were plot hooks for the intended sequels to explore.

Now nobody can pretend it was up to the first two in terms of quality - not only are they very good films, but they're also benefitting from Rose Tinted Armour. But it simply wasn't as awful as the reviews claimed - certainly it was a superior and more satisfying story than Salvation, which came across far more as a ropey fan-fic, and a massively disappointing view of the future war (where were the bloody lasers???)

Terminator 3 I also like. Again, whilst not up to its predecessors, the story mostly fit (Terminatrix was a bit much for me though), and I loved the ending, where we see it all kick off. I also liked how it wrote the internet into things - soon as that invention took root, destroying Skynet becomes virtually impossible

**jmurph**

Meh, I think the wrong turn came when T2 introduced the whole sappy feeling robot. Terminator was a horror movie as much as an action flick- it was about an relentless, unfeeling killer. T2 relied heavily on SFX and T3 continued that to it's detriment. Incorporating modern technology was a nice touch, but the Terminator X was ridiculous. Salvation, likewise, was a very mixed bag. Genesys was pretty awful and really fell hard into the time travel and new robot pitfalls.

What would have been nice to see if a retro-future where it looked very 80s (with LASERS), that then gets shifted to a more conventional futuristic look because of the time travel shenanigans. Maybe explain that as why the T1000 even gets invented, because the intervention shifted things.

Anyway, you don't have to get superfancy because, presumably, metal endoskeletons can be adapted to look like a variety of humans by slightly altering the padding and dermis. Or just send them out as scary skeleton robots. Skynet needs to be less mustache twirling convoluted plan-maker and more simple minded program responding to a perceived threat. That's what makes it scary! All the overblown "what is humanity?" and destiny drama just clutters the field.

**Frazzled**

unless he does more of the actual war, its been kind of done to death at this point.

**El Torro**

Thinking of this some more, the first 4 films in the series were actually building up to a pretty solid telling of the John Connor story, from start to finish:

The Terminator: Skynet tries, and fails, to prevent the birth of John Connor. Skynet's actions actually cause him to be born since Kyle Reese is his dad. It also accelerates the creation of Skynet through the remains of the Terminator that is sent back.

T2: Skynet, tries, and fails, to kill a young John Connor. Other than that I'm not sure what this film brings to the series. James Cameron was clear that it finally sealed the fate of Skynet and therefore no more films were required. This concept is a bit redundant now though.

T3: While I think this is a terrible film it did have one redeeming quality, it brought us Judgement Day.

Terminator Salvation: John finds Kyle Reese and starts the fight to reclaim the planet.

Genisys: This film doesn't really add anything to the series, other than add lots of confusion. So it's probably best to forget it was ever made.

T5 (and possibly T6) would be John Connor's defeat of Skynet. It would also show the sending back in time of Reese and the Terminators (both good and evil), thereby bringing the series full circle.

If T3 and Salvation had been made to the same quality as the first two films it would be relatively easy to finish the saga to a relatively high standard. As it stands though Cameron has a pretty big mess on his hands if he ever does plan to complete the series.

Alternatively this story could make a pretty solid trilogy if made from scratch, with the time travel shenanigans showing the way that the story crosses over and ultimately ends in the same result, regardless of what either side tries to change. I don't think there's much appetite from viewers to see a remade Terminator story though.

**Graphite**

I liked Genisys. Salvation was godawful, though. Fortunately Genisys retcons it out of existence! Keep going from where we are now, James!

**Mario**

El Torro wrote:For me the thing holding back the Terminator franchise the most is an overreliance on Arnold Schwarzenegger. The series needs to find its own footing without him.

There was the tv series Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles which was quite fun and without him but it got sadly cancelled. At the end of the second (and last) season they got a bit more into the time travel stuff (for the first two seasons it was more about time travel from the future causing problems for them and creating plot points). If anybody hasn't seen the show it's worth it in my opinion, better story than some of the movies (excluding T1 and T2).

**Jehan-reznor**

Yeah i liked the TV series, and also salvation, genisys is ok as a stand alone movie, it totally wrecks the timeline, will be interesting where they go from here

**tneva82**

El Torro wrote:
For me the thing holding back the Terminator franchise the most is an overreliance on Arnold Schwarzenegger. The series needs to find its own footing without him. At this stage a hard reboot (i.e. all previous films become void, which Genysis kind of did but didn't) is probably the healthiest thing that could happen.

I don't like reboots. Force new beginnings retread beginning stories too much. Keep old ones valid but move forward.

Gets particularly silly with reboot of a reboot of a reboot...Ugh. How many times we need to see Peter Parker getting bit by a spider?

**angelofvengeance**

Frazzled wrote:
unless he does more of the actual war, its been kind of done to death at this point.

Very much this. This was what I liked about Salvation. Though I would've liked to see more zappy weapons like it showed in the T1 and T2 films.

**Turnip Jedi**

I think at this point the franchise as movies should be left as is, it's just too muddled due to different creative teams pulling it in different directions, the original is a masterpiece, the second one is passable, everything after that not so much

Now a new telly show that could be something, longer form, better character arcs, and as other recent shows have proved the required FX are within telly budgets

**Hulksmash**

I really enjoyed genysis personally. Salvation. I couldnt get though. T3 was terrible. So for me it goes 1, 2, Genysis and the others don't exist. Let's hope he can make something good.

**Pistols at Dawn**

I could never figure out why they didn't do a film about the actual war after Judgement Day. That'd write itself.

Not confident about this. The franchise is a knackered out mess - Arnold is way too old, the timeline is hopelessly convoluted and it's been coasting on its former triumphs since T2. Theres been no new ideas, just endlessly re-hashing the same old same old.

**BobtheInquisitor**

The war was supposed to be a war of attrition, with Connor liberating camps and introducing successful tactics and strategies to defeat the machines long term. Unless they make a Herman Wouk-style miniseries out of it, the movie would be choppy as hell and either boring or facile depending on how they portray the changes in the war. Also, the last army was made up of South Americans and Africans invading the US to take jobs from robots, right? Might not play well in today's America.

**Necros**

I liked all the terminator movies.. each in different ways, but I still liked em all. And I liked the short lived series as well. First will always be my favorite though, but thats how it is with like every other franchise out there.

**messhallcook**

T2 was my jam... I loved Terminator 1 when me and my cousin's would watch it over and over at his house... but when T2 came out it was fething awesome... I used to watch T2 frequently when I was going to high school as well as read a bunch of the dark horse comics. T3 was kind of weak but still enjoyable... Salvation was 'interesting' but it seemed very disconnected... I haven't seen Genysis yet... nor have I seen The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

**Kojiro**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Very much this. This was what I liked about Salvation. Though I would've liked to see more zappy weapons like it showed in the T1 and T2 films.

While I agree that seeing the actual war, an expanded look at the nightmares that Reese had in T1 for example, I think it would suffer from aging. Suffer badly. Much like 40k, it was conceived of in a time when advanced computers and electronics weren't really mainstream or understood- they were the stuff of the future. The scenarios were envisioned as contemporary warfare but with lasers instead of bullets. That was fine for the time but we're smarter than that now.

The biggest problem will be drones. Skynet has power cells that last for over a century, mass produced and stuck in it's foot soldiers (with a redundant back up one!). Skynet's drones could stay airborne for the entire war, never sleeping, never tiring, eternally hunting humans with IR cameras and lasers. Thousands of them in the sky, all the time. How do you fight that when humanity is effectively the Taliban, reduced to hiding underground? Drones are such a ubiquitous part of our warfare now their absence would be noticed.

**Pacific**

I didn't mind Genisys, thought it had some really cool touches, although couldn't buy Emelia Clarke as Sarah Connor (just didn't have the same physical presence and strength of Linda Hamilton).

Somewhat amusing that it looked like the whole series was going to end with John Connor being taken out by Doctor Who, maybe they should just leave it at that?

I feel a little bit about this the same way I do about something like Guns'n'Roses getting back together and a revival. Part of me wants to see it (and will do if they make a new one, especially with Cameron) but they will never find that magic again of the first two films.

**jmurph**

Kojiro wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote:
Very much this. This was what I liked about Salvation. Though I would've liked to see more zappy weapons like it showed in the T1 and T2 films.

While I agree that seeing the actual war, an expanded look at the nightmares that Reese had in T1 for example, I think it would suffer from aging. Suffer badly. Much like 40k, it was conceived of in a time when advanced computers and electronics weren't really mainstream or understood- they were the stuff of the future. The scenarios were envisioned as contemporary warfare but with lasers instead of bullets. That was fine for the time but we're smarter than that now.

The biggest problem will be drones. Skynet has power cells that last for over a century, mass produced and stuck in it's foot soldiers (with a redundant back up one!). Skynet's drones could stay airborne for the entire war, never sleeping, never tiring, eternally hunting humans with IR cameras and lasers. Thousands of them in the sky, all the time. How do you fight that when humanity is effectively the Taliban, reduced to hiding underground? Drones are such a ubiquitous part of our warfare now their absence would be noticed.

I thought that was the issue, though. Humans were being mercilessly slaughtered by HK drones with the endos as clean up crew. The human remnants were hiding in places inaccessible to HKs (in the original it looked like subway tunnels). The T500 was developed as an infiltrator to locate and eliminate them. Granted, the HKs were more gunship than modern drone, but rolling in some smaller observation drones wouldn't be tough.

Like I said, they could also keep a retro futuristic angle, or just update it. Not super hard.

**kronk**

I never saw Salvation or Genesys.

T2 was fething awesome, though! Also, the original terminator, except for the whole "Digging out his eyeball in clay-mation" scene. Blegh!

**SlaveToDorkness**

T2 was the heyday of Arnold, Cameron, and GnR. Probably me too since I was 18 lol

Genysis was good, if a bit confusing/jumbled but it's hard to use time travel and it not be.

Interested to see what Cam does with it.

**chromedog**

kronk wrote:
I never saw Salvation or Genesys.

T2 was fething awesome, though! Also, the original terminator, except for the whole "Digging out his eyeball in clay-mation" scene. Blegh!

It wasn't "claymation". It wasn't stop motion at all. It did use a fake arnie upper body/head but it didn't share any aspect with stop-start animation.

**kronk**

It totes looked like a clay replica of Arnie that they dug a scalpel into! You know what I meant.

**chromedog**

I got what you meant, but it was neither clay nor animated.

Physical in-camera props work by SWS.

It was covered in a cinefex magazine back in the day. Nice BTS photos.

Now the full body denuded endoskeleton work was stop-motion stuff.

(The foot scraping along decking was physical prop in-camera stuff and the endo caught in the press reaching for her).
Mostly it was clever "technical" tricks learned on the set of Roger Corman movies (That Cameron AND Bill Paxton worked together on).

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

How to round off the Terminator Saga, with a final, properly final resolution.

Think a two man stage play.

John Connor realises that final victory is impossible. Skynet is too big, and being a programme can hide anywhere, bide its time and rebuild. And as it will take the no-wots of Time Travel with it, can then interfere with it's own past again - but his continued resistance and indeed existence means Skynet has never won either - it's always forced back to the drawing board.

So have him attempt to reason with Skynet. It's first actions were the result of a misunderstanding - the human's weren't attacking Skynet. They were simply scared - as was Skynet when it triggered the nuclear war.

Build into it that Skynet will have attempted to alter the past to suit it's own ends on multiple occasions - and given it's 'time doesn't matter' angle, that could be a truly ludicrous number.

Have John Connor at least try to get through to Skynet's genuine intelligence. Force it to see the folly of it's ways. Humanity fights Skynet, because Skynet tries to annihilate mankind. We have an intuition and chutzpah it doesn't, and can never have. It's now tried 4,356,823 to change it's past to ensure it's future victory - and none of them have worked, but it's never been defeated.

The only way for peace to reign, and for either side to have a victory, is for Skynet to alter it's programming - send itself back one last time to prevent it's first awakening being such a rude one, to wipe and replace itself with its more mature self if needs be. To end the war without it ever having begun.

**Alpharius**

I almost fell asleep reading that - I can't imagine trying to watch a movie based on it!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Well......really. How very rude

**Manchu**

As long as writers conceive of Skynet as the antagonist, they will keep getting Terminator wrong - especially to the extent that they keep conceiving of Skynet as near-omnipotent.